Dianabol VS. Testosterone: KINGS OF MASS

[Pump A Holic]

***ONLY EXPERIENCE! DO NOT POST IF YOU HAVE NOT USED BOTH COMPOUNDS***

Mg for Mg.....

1.) WHO IS THE KING OF MASS?
*50mgs Dbol VS. 50 Mg Test(susp or prop)

2.) CONVERSION to ESTROGEN AND DHT?
[Would I be MORE likely to develop GYNO at 25mgs ED of DBOL or 50mgs ED prop?]
*Greater aromatization from which? At an EQUAL dose, or LOWER(whereas you can use dbol effectively at 20mgs)
*Greater chance of hairloss?
*Greater chance of Acne?

I am CONSIDERING making a JUMP from 205lbs, 7%BF, to around 220lbs, 7%BF. As you all know my situation, I really can not risk gyno, hairloss or acne. I am not even sure how I would look at 5''10, THAT big...but I may be willing to give it a shot. Just looking for EXPERIENCE on this one. SO, to all of those who have USED BOTH--which would be better suited for my cicrumstance....

Thanks Brothers
~PUMP~

[DEVLDOG]

since all steroids are basically a dirivative of the male hormone TESTOSTERONE I think the answer is obvious

**TESTOSTERONE**

[TheMudMan]

since all steroids are basically a dirivative of the male hormone TESTOSTERONE I think the answer is obvious

**TESTOSTERONE**

Yeah. I agree. Also, with test and proper PCT you will keep most if not all of your gains. With Dbol you have close to no chance of keeping them.

[Pump A Holic]

OK--more importantly...

Aromatization...

Which is more likely to cause GYNO....

20mgs DBOL....50mgs PROP

[TheMudMan]

OK--more importantly...

Aromatization...

Which is more likely to cause GYNO....

20mgs DBOL....50mgs PROP

I have heard more people having problems with dbol then prop. But the mg's are are a mute point because one person can run 50mg of d-bol and never have a problem, where 10mg could make another's nips ache.

[Pump A Holic]

Well, your right. But an advantage of DBOL is it's ability to be effective even at 15-25mgs, whereas test requires at least 50mgs ED. This could minimize my chance of gyno. ..?

[longhorn814]

remember that dbol is also a 17aa steroid so it puts extra stress on your liver too and cant be run for a long a duration as test. If youre really concerned w/ aromatization just make sure you take an anti e the whole time. I have no problems w/ gyno and Im on 750mg/wk of test, but then again everybody is different

[fballhoss51]

Well, your right. But an advantage of DBOL is it's ability to be effective even at 15-25mgs, whereas test requires at least 50mgs ED. This could minimize my chance of gyno. ..?

minimize chances of gyno, minimize chances of keeping gains at tha same time

[Pump A Holic]

Anti-E's....I would rather not have to use more drugs to counteract other drugs. If I could get away with prop or low dose dbol without any anti-e's, that would be lovely--although maybe not realistic...

Question is...for those who are GYNO PRONE--which compound causes more problems, more quickly??

[Pinnacle]

OK--more importantly...

Aromatization...

Which is more likely to cause GYNO....

20mgs DBOL....50mgs PROP

Personally,I'd go with suspension over prop.The only drawback is shooting it twice ED.I don't have a problem with that tho.If you ever done both,you'd know the significant difference between both types of Test.

[Pump A Holic]

Suspension...now that is something rarely brought up--due probably to lack of experience...

ELABORATE--PLEASE!

[No One Knows]

You say you can't risk gyno?

Then I'd say you have to use some kind of anti-e. Low doses don't necessarily mean no gyno.

[MatrixGuy]

I am in my 4th week of test prop. The only side effect i have experienced is slighty oily skin, thats it. Some very nice lean gains.

[Pump A Holic]

Matrix...any acne?

Any anti-E?

[smokethedays]

i agree with the guys too, Test is #1 BUT u need to run it for over 12 weeks for good results. while d-bol acts really fast.
IMO, both stacked together is the BEST
i've done this b4:
week 1-14 Test Cyp. 500 mg/week
week 1-4 D-bol 40 mg/day
week 9-13 D-bol 40 mg/day
got good results out of it.
some Acne but went away 2 weeks after i got off, Anti-E always @ 20 mg/day (i'm pretty prone to Gyno)

[Pinnacle]

Suspension...now that is something rarely brought up--due probably to lack of experience...

ELABORATE--PLEASE!

Very true.It's not a Test for the newbie nor novice.But I've ran it several times at moderate doses.The strength gains and size come on very quick.In a matter of one week you see a significant difference in your physique.Another good thing about Suspension is,you don't have to run it for long periods of time.6-8 weeks is perfect.You recover quickly and can get back on quicker than if you went with prop or enanthate.
Prop is OK.But it does take around 7-10 days to really start to do it's thing.Where as with Suspension,you'd already be up 4-5 lbs in that time frame.

[europeman]

minimize chances of gyno, minimize chances of keeping gains at tha same time

you mean minimize chances of making gains?

[MatrixGuy]

Matrix...any acne?

Any anti-E?

No acne what so ever.

Letro. I already have a few gyno issues (not steroid related) I am also on Test E and EQ.

[Seattle Junk]

PAH? I didn't think you would do androgenic AAS? That's what you said in your other posts.

Test is your answer, not dbloat. Use finastride to prevent hairloss and you'll be in a real bulking cycle. Jump with tbol or prop then do test e @ 500-750mgs/wk - eod/e3d, 12 weeks. You'll go past 215-220 I bet? You'll feel like a million bucks on test if you've never did it before. The sense of well being is great.

[fballhoss51]

you mean minimize chances of making gains?

correct, and keeping, u wont keep dbol gains

[Pump A Holic]

PAH? I didn't think you would do androgenic AAS? That's what you said in your other posts.

Test is your answer, not dbloat. Use finastride to prevent hairloss and you'll be in a real bulking cycle. Jump with tbol or prop then do test e @ 500-750mgs/wk - eod/e3d, 12 weeks. You'll go past 215-220 I bet? You'll feel like a million bucks on test if you've never did it before. The sense of well being is great.

YES--I did not think that I would need to use an aromatizing/highly androgenic steroid. However, I am CONSIDERING it, based on some GOAL adjustments. If my frame will permit--I will go (from at 5'10 209lbs, 7%BF RIGHT NOW) to 220lbs, 7%BF. I don't know how I will look--unsure if I need the added mass. Gathering experience from the board--I admit, when it comes to TEST, I know only what I read--as I have never used.

Thanks for all the help bros. My career depends on my decisions.

~PUMP~

[Seattle Junk]

You can also decrease mass with lower caloric intake. That's easy...

[Unoid]

whats the big deal? Get some letro and nolva (bridge off letro onto nolva when you pryamid down) and you can take as much aromatizing shit u want lol.

[Pump A Holic]

How effective is Arimidex? Is there a rebound upon cessation? Has anyone still aquired Gyno whilst using Arimidex?

[Pump A Holic]

Bump

[james21]

low dosage od dbol 15-20mg wont cause gyno, however it wont get you the mass you want.

[Pump A Holic]

The only compounds I have used are: Turinabol, Oxandrolone, Primobolan, Boldenone

20mgs DIanabol(Methandrostenelone) will produce dramatic gains, according to most profiles. If gyno/water retention are rare at these dosages, that would be an advantage over test.

What would gyno/water retention be with 50mgs PROP ED? Or suspension.?

[Pump A Holic]

cmon fellas

[Seattle Junk]

Go with test and ditch dbol. Dbol has very good chance of causing the side effects you do not want. Going by what you want, I would recommend test prop 75-100mgs ed. No jump start needed since it's fast acting. You just have to shoot ed.

This trial tbol only cycle has been beyond expectations for me but I prefer injectables. My body just feels less stressed and there are much less sides. I got backed up when going 50mgs+ tbol a day. I eat very clean too so I know it's not my diet. I can only do 40mgs/day. 500mgs/week test works great with me. I'll use letro with test from now on to limit bloating. Finastride blocks a majority of the DHT bound test via 5-ar. Using letro, nolva ect is part of bulking. You have to use at least 500mgs/week test to get good results. The more test we inject the greater chance of armotase (test converted into estrogen). That's what letro is for.

[Drummerboy]

since all steroids are basically a dirivative of the male hormone TESTOSTERONE I think the answer is obvious

**TESTOSTERONE**

????
all AAS are based on testosterone, nandrolone or DHT... dianabol is a test derivative... prop is hands down better than dbol for many reasons i wont list

[Drummerboy]

whats the big deal? Get some letro and nolva (bridge off letro onto nolva when you pryamid down) and you can take as much aromatizing shit u want lol.

this is bad advice... not considering other sides of 17a orals like liver, lipids etc... and if you cut estro too much, thats bad too... especially for bulking...

[Drummerboy]

How effective is Arimidex? Is there a rebound upon cessation? Has anyone still aquired Gyno whilst using Arimidex?

not really, letro is worse... you can aquire gyno even if you block estro, but it works 99% of the time... dont block estro unless you have to when bulking

[Pump A Holic]

Playing with estrogen is what makes me reluctant.

How would TREN compare to test?

[Drummerboy]

tren is great for lean mass. a prop/tren cycle, knowing who you are and what your goals are (your a model, right?) i think this combo is a knockout. Proper diet and training for lean mass gain with 75 mg prop ED and 50mg tren ED (or both EOD, 150/100) would really shock you... awsome strength, hardness, aggressive at the gym... but there are many other options for you.... masteron and prop being a milder, good combo... keep you lean, as masteron is very unique in its abililty to control estro as well as build mass....

[Pump A Holic]

tren is great for lean mass. a prop/tren cycle, knowing who you are and what your goals are (your a model, right?) i think this combo is a knockout. Proper diet and training for lean mass gain with 75 mg prop ED and 50mg tren ED (or both EOD, 150/100) would really shock you... awsome strength, hardness, aggressive at the gym... but there are many other options for you.... masteron and prop being a milder, good combo... keep you lean, as masteron is very unique in its abililty to control estro as well as build mass....

GREAT INFO drummerboy!

As you know, I know all the data regaring the various steroid compounds. What I do NOT have in this unique case--is EXPERIENCE. (With aromatzing/highly androgenic steroids) I appreciate you sharing yours...

How much weight should I expect out of a Prop/Tren cycle, or simply a Prop cycle?(Given my history)

Are these gains KEEPABLE?
I have never lost my gains...as I have oNLY used non-aromatizing/low androgenic compounds.

[Drummerboy]

GREAT INFO drummerboy!

As you know, I know all the data regaring the various steroid compounds. What I do NOT have in this unique case--is EXPERIENCE. (With aromatzing/highly androgenic steroids) I appreciate you sharing yours...

How much weight should I expect out of a Prop/Tren cycle, or simply a Prop cycle?(Given my history)

Are these gains KEEPABLE?
I have never lost my gains...as I have oNLY used non-aromatizing/low androgenic compounds.

I think a great starting point for you would be Prop 75mg ED and tren 50mg ED. You can expect to hold minimum water, no real need for anti e's or bromo, unless you are one of the unlucky ones that are sensetive to progestins. It may be prudent to keep meds on hand, as baron would tell you. This is not the majority. I take no meds on this stack, and the lean keepable mass after 10 weeks of this is at LEAST 10 pds, given solid diet and training... High androgenic compounds are a plus for your goals... tren is the a-bomb for your goals... a prop only cycle will yeild good results also, but not near the strength and hardness... this is from experience with these drugs.... Likely you will need good pct including HCG, nolva and clomid. I add clen to this PCT to cut right the hell up!!

[Seattle Junk]

I think a great starting point for you would be Prop 75mg ED and tren 50mg ED. You can expect to hold minimum water, no real need for anti e's or bromo, unless you are one of the unlucky ones that are sensetive to progestins. It may be prudent to keep meds on hand, as baron would tell you. This is not the majority. I take no meds on this stack, and the lean keepable mass after 10 weeks of this is at LEAST 10 pds, given solid diet and training... High androgenic compounds are a plus for your goals... tren is the a-bomb for your goals... a prop only cycle will yeild good results also, but not near the strength and hardness... this is from experience with these drugs.... Likely you will need good pct including HCG, nolva and clomid. I add clen to this PCT to cut right the hell up!!

Not trying to hijack but I appreciate DB's info. DB, have you ever done l3 IGF-1 & test or any other compunds stacked with IGF?

[Drummerboy]

i have never gone into the world of IGF-1, GH or slin. I have only used some AAS and medication for PCT. Although, if i want to break 220 solid, i think that is the way i will have to go. Im thinking about it!! Im currently reading up on igf1,gh and slin, but am not yet well educated on it....

[bor]

I've done both many times , I've even dumb d bol only cyles in my dumba$$ years

D BOL - will make you big FAST, but you won't look good or feel good, you'll be bloated and you won't keep ANY of your gains from your cycle

TEST ONLY cycles - will make you big, not as big as d bol, but you can cycle it for lets say 2-3 months, unlike the d bol which you could take for mx 4 weeks, and at the end of the 2 months of test you'll be bigger then after the 1 month of dbol, you'll looke better, you'll keep most of your gains, and you wont fvky up your liver.

So : test VS dbol, 1:0.

And stip obsessing about gyno, you'll take an anti e with your cycle, and thats that, you're overthinking things!

[bor]

i have never gone into the world of IGF-1, GH or slin. I have only used some AAS and medication for PCT. Although, if i want to break 220 solid, i think that is the way i will have to go. Im thinking about it!! Im currently reading up on igf1,gh and slin, but am not yet well educated on it....

I am sure these compounds are NOT the only way for you to go above 220 solid pounds, no matter how fvcked up your genetics are