mid-thirties cycle ????s

[lowell34]

Hello all.. I've been looking at this site for about 2 weeks and love it. However, I'm in a different frame of mind than the majority of other members and my questions come from a different direction.
I have been training hardcore for 17 years naturally and have made impressive gains. I'm 34, stand 6-1 and weigh about 245. bf around 15%.
I'm looking at doing a cycle just for me. I can tell my natural production of Test is falling off and my metabolism is slowing down. I have put in years of hard work and, until now, have always been proud of the way I look. I feel I have reached my physical peak naturally but I am unwilling to just get old and soft without a fight. So, instead of saying "I've reached the top of the mountain and it's time my body starts going over-the-hill" I've decided to try a cycle and take my body one step further.
I am still an old fashion gym rat at heart. But, even after being in the gyms for 17 years, I know very little about AS. Hell, until I found this site I didn't even know they called it "gear" now.
My questions concern how I can expect my body to react to AS at this point in my life.
Here's the cycle I'm looking at:

10 weeks at Sus 250/wk and Deca 200/wk. May look at moving it up a little and do those amounts every 5 days instead of every 7. After reading a lot of other entries on this site I'm even thinking of adding about 30mg dbol a day for the first 4 weeks of the cycle just to kick it.

Specific questions:

1. What is the chance of gyno with this cycle?

2. What kind of weight gain could I expect?

3. Should I see a reduction in bodyfat with this cycle if I eat well?

4. What the hell does Clomid do?

Sorry to be so wordy, but I haven't been this fired up about training in a long time.

[silverfox]

Well most of your answers are out on board. Gyno probably low, but get some amerdriex or Novadex to fight the estrogen. Will also help if your goal is to lean out, as estrogen = water/fat. Gains, well to hard to tell, everyone is so different. Personally i feel you should do one or other, bulk up a bit or lean out a bit. Clomid is post cycle to aid in bring your natural test production back online.

[lowell34]

All things being equal, can a guy my age expect to get the same results as a younger person?

[silverfox]

for sure, i would say 20lbs of keepable mass is probably about right, you been training for long time, you should know how to train and eat , as 245 natural is very good, so you should respond well. Typical 1st time cycle:
500mg test per week, 400mg deca and 30-40mg per day of d-ball for 4-6 weeks, then read up a bit on clomid for post cycle, will help you keep more of the gains.

[lowell34]

would you suggest running the test and deca at the above level all 10 weeks or starting high and lowering toward the end?

[Mallet]

I would definately consider upping those doses my friend!...at your age and Body weight 250mg/week of sus and 200mgs/week of deca won't do much for you if anything at all IMO.I'm 31 years old and weigh 250lbs at 6'1" also...and have done atleast 10 cycles, but my first cycle was at the age of 27 and it was 500mgs/week of omna, 300mgs/week of primo, and 30mgs/day of d-bol and I packed on a good 25lbs in 12 weeks...

I would suggest this cycle:

Week 1-4 d-bol 30-40mgs/day
Week 1-10 500mgs/week sus
Week 1-10 400-600mgs/week deca
clomid at the end for sure...and I doubt you'll get any gyno or other sides from those small doses, but keep some arimidex on hand or nolva, whichever one you can get cheap,Just incase your nips start to get sore!

I think you'll be happy with the results from that stack provided you eat right and eat enough...A general rule I follow is to increase my cal by 1500...

[silverfox]

yep what he said, tapering is waste of time and gear, start at your dose hold until under come off correctly.

[lowell34]

The calorie thing gets me into another question. As I mentioned in my original post, my metabolism has slowed way down. I can't consume more than 3000 cals/day without gaining rapid weight. Last year I went from 230 to 260 in less than 4 months. And no, I did not look good. Will the cycle help my ability to utilize more calories?

[silverfox]

yes, you will be able to use more calories. If your prone to getting too bulked up increase your base by about 500 cals and see what happens, do your best to eat 2g of protien per lbs of lean body weight. Not too many shakes, real food is much better for most part.

[Mallet]

Hey Diesel!...How ya bin bro!...The Girlfriend and I split up so I"ve had the house up for sale and been looking for another one, Also tore a tri-cep 6 weeks into the cycle...so life has been upside down for a while but I'm still plugging away at the diet and training best I can...I'm actually getting ready to post some knew pics...I'm all tanned up know and have shed 16lbs of lard so the deffinition is starting to come in fairly well...

Thanx for the concern!

Mallet.

[Mallet]

Thanx Bro!...I appreciate it!

[lowell34]

I keep seeing a comparison of deca and Equipoise. What dosage does the Equipoise usually come in? How do they compare in cost per cycle?

[Mallet]

I prefer deca for bulking and EQ for cutting!

They both have similar functions in the body, but there are some slight diferences.

Cost wise I would say if your buying the EQ in 200mg/ml strength and deca in 300mg/ml strength your looking at paying between $150-$200 Can.. for 10ml of either, which IMO is a good buy...those ofcourse are the (TT) brand...so you could pay more or less for other brand names.

I personally have never experienced the joint healing properties of Deca or the Appetite increasing properties of EQ...but the EQ definately makes you hold less water for a more defined look rather than a bloated look...depends on what your aiming for!

[Ajax]

The other guys here have done a good job already, but let me take a stab at the questions you answered in the order you answered them anyway:

1) Gyno is a crapshoot. Some people get it on low doses of 'roids, some on high doses, others claim they never experience it. You can either be proactive and take a medication that stops estrogen production (Arimidex or Proviron) or be reactive and take a medication to block estrogen if and when you see symptoms appearing (Nolvadex). If you are taking a low dose of 'roids like you are planning, I would just keep a box or two of Nolvadex on hand and take it if your nipples start to swell and/or itch. (That's the major indication that estrogen is at play in your system.)

2) What kind of gains can you expect? It varies. You could gain anywhere from 10-20 lbs. I would guess, as much as 30 if you upped the dosage...

3) Will you lose body fat? That's totally dependent on your diet. AS do not directly affect fat. If you eat fewer calories than you burn when on AS, you will lose fat, but you also will limit the lean body mass gains you can make. Many people eat voraciously when on AS in order to maximize the gains they make even if it means packing on a little fat. (If you are gaining fat while on AS, then you know you are eating more than enough calories to build muscle.) You can (theoretically) manage your calories so that you are only eating enough to pack on muscle, not fat, but as well as you seem to know your body, you don't know how your body responds on steroids. Y

You will need to eat an excess of calories on your cycle, probably around 4000-4500 calories, if you normally burn 3000 calories a day. You may suffer a small gain in total BF, but if you put on 20 lbs of muscle and 3 lbs of fat, then you will still be at 15% total body fat and you will not have limited your muscle growth from lack of calories. Diet post-cycle to lower your BF%.

4) Many, if now most, AS signal the body to stop it's natural production of testosterone. At the end of a cycle, you have no AS in your body and no natural testosterone production, so you are at a high risk of losing the muscle you gained because there are no anabolic agents (artificial or natural) in your system. Clomid signals your body to start producing testosterone again, thus helping you to keep the gains you made on AS. If you don't take Clomid post-cycle, say bye-bye to all the new muscle you gained!

And finally, don't taper. The Testosterone and Deca are metabolized in your system over a period of about 3 weeks, so you will taper naturally… (Don’t start the Clomid until 3 weeks after your last injection ‘cuz you will still have test/deca in your system which will defeat the action of the Clomid, your testicles won’t start producing testosterone if your blood levels are high…)

You can expect your results to be as good as the ‘young pups.’ I am 40 years old and I put on 25lbs my first cycle just this year!

Good luck!

[Kaz]

lowell34: Welcome bro - these guys seem to have covered all the bases on this question

Ajax - good post bro

[Mighty Joe]

Welcome to the board!

This over 30 forum is sweet for guys like us who just refuse to be old and weak. "We can stay Big & Strong" with a little smarts and hard work.

MJ

[Mallet]

Well said MightyJoe!

[lowell34]

Thanks for the thorough response Ajax. And thanks to all of you who have taken the time to read my post and respond to help me.
Hey, Ajax, just for my information, what did your cycle look like? 25 lbs would be a sweet gain, although it would put me around 270.

[Ajax]

My cycle went something like this:

Test. Enathate 500mg/week 1-10
Deca 400mg/week 1-10
D-bol 50mg/day weeks 1-4
Winny (oral) 35mg/day weeks 8-12

Proviron 50mg/day to prevent gyno.

I was in the same situation as you. I was 245, went to 270. Post-cycle I dieted and used Clen/T3 and I lost 25 lbs of fat, taking me back to 245 lbs, but looking far, far better!

Glad I could help. The folks here did a lot for me, so I am passin gon the favor...

[iron4life79]

well,
the only thing i would add would be to lose the sustanon and go with enanthate or cypionate. sustanon is too iffy on when to start your clomid, and test levels are too unstable.
i know you could probably make a pretty good guess as to when to start the clomid, but imho its just too much of a shot in the dark.
as you can tell, im not a big fan of sustanon, or deca for that matter.
i would sub eq for the deca, and like posted above either enan, or cyp for the sus.
a lot of guys swear by sustanon and deca, so the decision is ultimately yours lowell, but this is my .02.

peace bb79

[lowell34]

Well, BB79, the reason I'm leaning toward the Sus 250 is because the guy I can get it from just fininshed a cycle and I know the source is good. I am really concerned about dropping this much money and getting fake supplies. If he knows the sus is good I will go with my best bet. As far as what to stack it with, I'm not sure. I love the idea of some joint pain relief that may come with the deca, but I don't want 25 lbs of water gain that will go away when the cycle ends. It seems people are polarized on the deca topic. From what I'm reading, people either love it or hate it. Since safety is a major concern, I think I'll go with the Sus 500/wk and deca 400/wk. From what you guys are saying this dosage should be both effective and safe. I'm still listening to all your suggestions. My target date to start my cycle is 6-1-02.

[iron4life79]

keep us posted on results bro,
i'd be interested to see what you come up with as far as gains/sides/water retention.
good luck brother.......

peace bb79

[lowell34]

When would you guys suggest I start taking the Proviron?

[iron4life79]

lowell
i would suggest at the start of your cycle. 50mg ed throughout, especially if you go with deca. the sustanon will help with the libido problems from the deca somewhat, but the proviron would take care of that problem nicely if it should rear its ugly head during your cycle.

peace bb79