what do you think of this??

[bulkmeUP]

hey bro's

Sitting down with a friend who is quite experienced and will be supplying me my gear, we came up with the following cycle. It will be my 1st, and Im hoping put on a good 20lbs+. I'm 5'10 147 11%, and have been training for 3 years on and off. Since, I am from OZ, gear is very expensive and sometimes hard to get. I have been looking at my options, and this seems to be the best yet. Please give me your thoughts, because I am really recommended the following.

Clomid and HCG will be taken post cycle, and arimidex during (half a tablet/ed). I'll be concentrating on 60% carbs, 40% protein, using other neccessities such as milk thirstle, cranny juice, and others.

any help will be appreciated!!!

[LiftHeavy]

I'm no expert on gear in fact I'm learing more and more everyday...but why increase the test like that every week? keep it constant.....and 900 mg for a 1st cycle...seems like too much

[Kaz]

I agree! No point in increasing the dose like that since the prop has an ester in it already and will naturally taper itself in and out.

For your first cycle you are also considering far to much test IMO - 200mg per week will give you a good result, cost you less, have less chance of side effects AND mean that you can still do a sensible dose on your next cycle.

But surprise surprise!

The man selling the gear is the one who suggested you use this much

For a FIRST cycle, to make gains of around 20lb you could easily get away with 200-300mg test per week, plus a similar dose EQ or Deca, still starting with the DBol max of about 35mg per day.

Of course that is assuming you eat properly and train properly.

Sorry but I would advise against this as a first cycle - Too much too soon (Where will you go for your next cycle? Start at 1000mg of test?)

I would also advise against asking your SOURCE for cycle advice since he has a profit in mind when he tells you what you should be taking. Maybe I read it all wrong but thats what it looks like to me!

[Ajax]

Originally posted by bulkmeUP
Clomid and HCG will be taken post cycle

No need for the HCG post-cycle. Some people recommend it, others think it hinders recovery.

As for the rest of the cycle:

What is Filibol? Never heard of it. Do you have a chemical name?

700mg a week of testosterone is WAY high for a first cycle. Like Kaz said, you only need a moderate amount if you are a beginner. (Like Kaz said--if he's selling it, he'll up the gear to make extra bucks--so take what he say with a grain of salt!)

Test. Prop. is not a good idea for a first-time steroid user, it requires daily or at least every-other-day injections. Use Testosterone Enathate or Cypionate instead.

Dbol: 10-25mg is not enough.

I can pick apart a few other things, but I think you would be best served by simply scrapping your buddy's cycle.

Start with something like this as a base and modify it:

Testosterone, EQ and Dianabol Stack

Testosterone Enathate or Cypionate 250mg/weeks, Weeks 1-10
EQ (Boldenone), 400mg/weeks, weeks 1-9
Dianabol 35mgs/day, weeks 1-4
Nolvadexs as needed to prevent Gyno (see below)
Clomid starting week 13; 300mg the first day, 100mg/day for the next 10 days and 50mg/day for the following 10 days.

Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken only if and when symptoms of gyno first appear. (Gyno symptoms: swollen, sore or itchy nipples and/or lumps around the nipple.) The typical dosage for this type of cycle is 40mg the first day, 20mg every day until the symptoms subside and 10mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.

=========================================

One thing I give you credit for: you did a fantastic job laying out the cycle in a nice, readable table that made it easy to understand!

I wish more guys would take that amount of trouble to present their information--it makes it so much easier to understand the stack and give a good critique!

[Big Al]

A serious re-think is in order here, bro or you have presented your cycle in aformat I don't understand??

[bulkmeUP]

Very understandable, however I do also understand where my mate is coming from. Remember, Ive never taken gear in my life. The 1st cycle is ALWAYS the best cycle. He has taken alot of juice himself, and knows ALOT. I mean, he's even had a few mentions in a book, and has delt with several Australian bodybuilders, and powerlifters. He called the cycle above a particular name, starting with 'H' (I forgot) and he wouldnt put me on more gear to make some money.

I too thought it would be best to carry a constant amount (200mg test) through weeks 1-10, but it would be better to pyramid for a beginner. That is the whole idea. It just makes more sense. One's body needs to adjust to something, before it gets used to it. Maybe, dropping 1 to 2ml would save me a bit of money, but would there be a difference at the end? I'd say thats a 50/50 answer... I'm no expert on AS, but I am still learning.

FILIBOL FORTE is Australian made METHANDRIOL DIPROPRIANATE. It is methandriol pre-stacked with deca-durabolin (correct me if im wrong).

"Testosterone Enathate or Cypionate 250mg/weeks, Weeks 1-10"

I might as well do sust250 then. Costs around $150 for 1 pack of 3 vials. I was originally going to do this, however changed my mind after speaking to a few people who had used it. It would cost me $450 for a louzy 250mg a week. Whereas, that money could get me 40ml of TEST PROP. What is the best type of testosterone? Who has used all types? I'm sure PROPRIANATE will take the cake for this one. Yes, it works best with eod injections, but i'll need to do that anyway with those dozes.

[Big Al]

IME the first cycle is not the best, you make mistakes and learn by them, my second and third cycles we're far more productive.

The structure has to change, stacking the cycle so heavily in the last week will hinder post-cycle recovery, this is not a good cycle for anyone IMO, but I would love to here your results.

Another thing you should consider your weight at 147LBS you may still have alot of natural growing to do, did you post your age?

[Kaz]

Sorry bro but this cycle not a good cycle for anyone, and NOT for a first cycle at that whatever your friend says! How do you equate taking enathate or cypionate to taking sust! They are not the same thing at all! (Although sust contains a mixture of tests) Im well aware that using AS is an expensive business depending on where you live, however if you choose to use AS (And its seems you have) then you will HAVE to spend that money to get the right gear, and in my opinion you DONT have the right gear!

I dont see why you would want to do injections every day if its not needed (and its not) and should you use enanthate (for example) the ester in it actually performs its own pyramid for you.

"it would be better to pyramid for a beginner"

Care to explain why? Your body does need to adjust to things before it gets used to them and they stop working, however this does not happen in a single cycle unless you use HUGE amounts!

"What is the best type of testosterone? Who has used all types?"

Um... rather a lot of us actually! Which is why we attempt to help people on this board! There is NO BEST! Only a personal preference which changes depending on who you talk to. I would be very surprised if anyone on this board were to say you have presented a good cycle there bro.

Sorry but thats the way it is! You DID say any help was appreciated! Seems to me you have had some but you dont want to hear it.

Does that sound like a flame? Sorry if it does, its not intended to!

[samoth]

Pyramiding up to 900mgs of prop and then ceasing is gonna cause one HELL of a crash...

[Pheedno]

Whats up man, I'm taking my first cycle in about a month, and this is it.
Just for a reference to compare. I don't know much but I would be concerned about the sides and the crash from the cycle you posted.
week 1-10 250mg cypionate
week 1-10 300mg Equapoise
clomid 3 weeks out
300-day 1
100-week
50-week

I'm trying for 15Lbs.
I think is very attainable with proper diet

[GoTGunS?]

DO me a favour and slap your friend upside the head!
Then do some research

[bulkmeUP]

thanks for all the help guys, I am going to scrap that cycle. I explained and explained that 900mg test was too much for me, but some people just dont listen. Whats involved in a crash? sounds to me like testosterone levels all over the place and hard to bring back to normal.

I'll have to look into proprianate and enathate furthermore, but I am definately sticking to the EQ. Filibol will need to be rethinked as well.

[Nate_Dog]

THANK FUCK FOR THAT!

I have been trying to tell him for about a week that the cycle was bad news. Hope he listened, and it sticks. Most likely not.

Bulkmeup... I asked you about your calorie intake and you could not answer me. That makes me think that you are not ready to take gear. And another thing, where did you allow for the % of fat in your original post?

Why do people always think more is better when it comes to gear? I am sure more is better for prostate cancer, and bitchies. People fair to respect gear, and they fuck it up for every other normal person who like to do the odd cycle.

Dude I dont mean to come down on you but,... you need to wake up and smell the protein farts.

He is young... I will not give up his age that is up to him.

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by bulkmeUP
hey bro's

Sitting down with a friend who is quite experienced and will be supplying me my gear,

I think your mate sounds like he does not know shit, and is making a good deal of cash off you. Has he ever got online and had a good read? Has he looked at medicle studies involving steriods? I think not. So chill and read and do your time like everyone else before you.

What kind of idiot tells a newbie to pyramid upto 900mgs prop/week?



Actually I am tired of this shit,.. take what you will, post a pic. And please email me with the thread you write about all the sides you get, the deca dick, the acne, the possible bitchies,... oh yeah and when you feel depressed from all the gear and when you loose you gains. WE WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU SO....

Any of you other bros like to comment on what I have written?

[Shredz]

way to much test in the last few weeks...I would do you prop 100mg EOD...i will leave the rest to the others

[androgenic]

Out of all the test why would you choose propionate. You'd be better off with the basic sustanon, cypionate and enthanate.They have a longer half life and thus you won't end up injecting prop every three days. As for the boldonate, I found that strange to start it three weeks after the begining of the cycle when that has a long half life. Better off using the Deca instead. Vet stuff aren't that good. I have gone trough some hard time with veternery stuff. They tend to be not as sterile as they should and after all they are made for animals not for people.
Anyway, My point is, try not to get too fancy about the gear. Stick with the basics as they work and don't go that high with the dose for first cycle.

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by androgenic

Anyway, My point is, try not to get too fancy about the gear. Stick with the basics as they work and don't go that high with the dose for first cycle.

AMEN.... and EXACTLY.

[PERSIANBOLIC]

Hay guys we have a lab mouse……. J/k

[Nate_Dog]

mouse he will stay if he doesn't listen.

[bulkmeUP]

do some research, do some research

The reason there is a question section on this board, is so people can ASK questions. From the day I heard that cycle I knew it was out of whack so just to double check, I came here for help. NOT FUCKEN FLAMES. This is all about learning. Learning involves questions. Am I wrong?

I am 20. I am no longer a 'teen'ager, and I'm sure there are plenty of 'teen'agers that know what they're doing, and are juicing up early. Personally, I think if a person is *ready*, then go ahead. At the moment, I'm not ready, thats why I am learning more and more for the future when I will be ready to take AS.

[Nate_Dog]

There is no flames here please read on....

Originally posted by bulkmeUP
The reason there is a question section on this board, is so people can ASK questions. From the day I heard that cycle I knew it was out of whack so just to double check, I came here for help. NOT FUCKEN FLAMES. This is all about learning. Learning involves questions. Am I wrong?

Now wait a minute here... a bit of truth here please.... I TOLD YOU VIA PM on MANY OCCASIONS when you asked me what a reasonible cycle would be if you were to choose to go ahead with one. IT WAS ALWAYS along the lines of what pheedno said in his thread.....! But still after all that yu post that cycle in this thread? Dont act like you didn't know any better. BECAUSE YOU DID... you just didn't want to listen. And you wanted to be superman overnight! It doesn't happen!

Originally posted by bulkmeUP
I am 20. I am no longer a 'teen'ager, and I'm sure there are plenty of 'teen'agers that know what they're doing, and are juicing up early. Personally, I think if a person is *ready*, then go ahead. At the moment, I'm not ready, thats why I am learning more and more for the future when I will be ready to take AS.

You are ready when you are training right (not over-training).. when you have optimal nutrition. Along with good recovery. After you have exhausted this and you plateau... (which takes years) then you hit the juice.

ALSO.. in reagrds the that teenager... ready then go ahead -->

Most of your growth plates dont close until you are approx 24. I recently read that some dont close until about 30. I will ask my lecturer for the notes on this and post them if anyone requests it.


I say if you are doing everything you can correctly... then hit it... other wise do your time, learn.. and grow.

[Kaz]

bulkmeUP: Slow down there bro!

No-one has flamed you! (If you don’t believe me go and have a read on another board at the kind of language people use and you will see what I mean!)

It is natural that in this game there are going to be at LEAST 2 conflicting opinions. Its your job to listen to as many as you can and prepare yourself as best you can. We ALL react in a slightly different way to the gear we use, so everyone has a slightly different opinion on what is best and what a good dose is.

In this thread no-one actually said your suggested cycle was great, and as Nate_Dog has said, he told you this in a PM. I just recently added a post which suggested that people should double check everything that they are told for their own peace of mind, and that’s cool, but please don’t go off at the members because they agree!

We ALWAYS tell people to "Do some research" Want to know why?

Because if someone comes in here with 2 posts to their name (Possibly gained by commenting on something in the General Forum) and asks if they can drink winny it just means they have not bothered to look it up for themselves, and THAT in turn means they are not ready to be using AS!

People here will look out for you, and try their best to guide you on the right path according to all the info you give them. But ultimately the responsibility for your AS use lies with YOU! Telling you to research is not a flame, its common sense!

I think you should slow down, have a long re-read of this thread and look at what everyone has said. It looks to me like they are trying their hardest to stop you from hurting yourself, but you are taking your time listening to them! That’s going to frustrate people! They are NOT flaming you, just trying to get their message across and keep you safe!

Sometimes we can seem a little... sharp, in the way we put our points across. Its not a flame, most of us want to make you think about these things yourself. When someone tells you apples are pink you don’t believe them until you are eating a pink apple!

Peace

[Nate_Dog]

Kaz... AMEN!!

Bulk.. I may have seem like I am coming down on you hard. BUt mate I assure you it is for your own good. Just looking out for you.

Some times you have to be blunt and harsh to get the point across.

Please dont let this turn you off the board, as I cannot speak highly enough for AR.

On a more positive note... I AM STARTING TO LEARN OLYMPIC LIFTING.... The more I train the more I love power movements. Wish I got into powerlifting/olympic lifting ages ago.

[bulkmeUP]

ok guys, maybe I did take it a bit too far. But hey, authority is a good thing. I am just so sick of people using the line 'do some research'. That really ticks me off.

Most of your growth plates dont close until you are approx 24.

Do you have medical evidence to back this up? I wouldn't mind reading it just out of curiousity. Everyone says something different. I thought the figure was 21.

Anyway, I just got some prop and I'm on my way to stacking up my early christmas present. I'm not scared of a few pins a week, because I've had plenty in the past (try 10, one after the other in your spine).

Just another question. I seem to be getting 50/50 answers for this from alot of people. Some say yes, some say no. Do I need HCG or not? Will the clomid be sufficient enough? I want a FIRM answer please. Otherwise, I'll put the money to good use.

-B

[Kaz]

You dont need HCG unless you are doing a very heavy, very long cycle. Clomid does a perfectly good job with sensible cycles and I think that using HCG as well is purely personal preference.

I have never used it nor to I plan to do so, but then I am very strict about time off from gear and just as strict on sensible doses. I have never yet exceeded a 12 week cycle or 400mg of ANYTHING on a cycle.

Im sure you will hear conflicting answers to this because we are ALL different. Its your job to decide if you think you need it. I know you will hate it but here we go again - Do your research and find out WHY people use it and equally why they dont!

As for being sick of hearing that...... What can I say? I have spent many hundreds of hours reading up on the things I plan to put in my body because I think thats the safest thing for me to do. I see no reason why you cant do the same thing and ask questions when you get stuck on something.

As Ajax would say "What you dont know CAN hurt you!"