Best steroid for the depression prone?

[Mike Dura]

The question was raised "what AAS would be lowest risk for a person with chronic depression?" The easy answer, of course, is don't take steroids. Depression is a serious disease. Being a serious bodybuilder, my friend found that answer unacceptable. I speculated that it would be a steroid that is lower in androgenic (vs. anabolic) effect - maybe deca or something along those lines. Then again, I'm not overly informed on AAS. So, I'm putting out the question to fellow members. Thank y'all in advance for your responses.
The more specific the answer, the better (e.g., drug name, any relevant info).

[vestax]

I would agree. I am not prone to depression but all the forms of test that I have taken (prop, en, cyp) had positive effects on my mood. I would say STAY AWAY from winny. Deca was fine with me. Tren was fine too but made me more aggressive as did var. Oral Turinabol has all in all been the best that I have tried.

You could also recomend just test w/ dutasteride

[MatrixGuy]

I would stick with test. I wouldn't venture into EQ/Tren as i found even with a fairly low dose of EQ, i experienced some enhanced anxiety issues. I suffer from depression/anxiety aswell.

[Im C murda]

Definetly, stick with test. If anything test only makes me feel better about myself. I start to even feel godlike in weeks6-12. i get overcocky, but i guess thats better then being depressed. D bol also generally promotes a feeling of well being.

[man-g]

i reacted the opposite way on test. Felt really depressed during a test prop cycle. During my npp cycle i felt great.

[NYC BIG MIKE]

You're in a strange predicament. I'm gonna say ask your doctor about test as a anti depressant. Doses of 250 mgs(typical anti depression dose) a week wont make you huge but will definately add to your muscularity and if you have a good diet, cardio and lifting routine in place you should get decent gains working within the confines or your situation.

[Maetenloch]

The question was raised "what AAS would be lowest risk for a person with chronic depression?" The easy answer, of course, is don't take steroids. Depression is a serious disease. Being a serious bodybuilder, my friend found that answer unacceptable. I speculated that it would be a steroid that is lower in androgenic (vs. anabolic) effect - maybe deca or something along those lines. Then again, I'm not overly informed on AAS. So, I'm putting out the question to fellow members. Thank y'all in advance for your responses.
The more specific the answer, the better (e.g., drug name, any relevant info).

The best way to combat depression is with specific anti-depressive medications i.e. SSRIs or MAOs - not with steroids. Once the depression is under control, then almost any steroid can be added in. That being said, testosterone and dbol are well known for creating a 'sense of wellbeing' probably through their effect on the dopaminergic system.

[Tiftan090]

I have extensive experience with antidepressants, I've tried just about every class, and my conclusion is that they are a poor excuse for consciousness. They can be fun for a while, but none that I've tried were viable alternatives for long term use. Androgens on the other hand are able to provide me with a benifit / side effect ratio that does warrant long term use.

The two that seem to work the best for me were oral turinabol, and believe it or not 4ad-cyp. These are both considered type II androgens because they don't bind well to the androgen receptor, or to SHBG, so this may have something to do with it. Dbol can improve mood, but I don't like it cause the sides are too severe, and the effects on mood are unpredictable for me. I have had the god like feelings on test that you guys are talking about, but I always felt stupid and lazy at the same time, and it didn't give me the sociability I wanted. Most of the time test makes me feel like crap. Tren can make me feel pretty good, but these effects were always short lived once the progestinic sides set in.

Anyway I think this is a really important topic and I'm surprised people don't talk about it more. If your physiology doesn't want you let you be happy, there's no amount of behavioral change that can make you happy, and whats the point of living if you don't enjoy it. I think it would be way cool to have a section devoted to optimal mood stacks.

[Swifto]

A common side effect of being suppressed/shutdown when battling to start the bodies own testosterone production again, during PCT, is depression. So wouldnt it be wise to stear clear of the most suppressive compounds, such as, the progesterone faimlly?

[marcus300]

A common side effect of being suppressed/shutdown when battling to start the bodies own testosterone production again, during PCT, is depression. So wouldnt it be wise to stear clear of the most suppressive compounds, such as, the progesterone faimlly?

agreed...
when de****g with hormones there will always be a down side when they are stopped, stay clear totaly seek your doctors advice

[vitor]

Proviron is very effective for anti-depression!

[DWayne]

A common side effect of being suppressed/shutdown when battling to start the bodies own testosterone production again, during PCT, is depression. So wouldnt it be wise to stear clear of the most suppressive compounds, such as, the progesterone faimlly?

^^^^^^^^^

[karln]

tset is the best i dont even get depressed when i go off test. Deca is the devil in this aspect i get depressed when i go off from it....

[Tiftan090]

when battling to start the bodies own testosterone production again

there will always be a down side when they are stopped

Who says you have to go off at all? There is a very strong dogma in the bodybuilding community that says cycling is the only way. This seems strange to me cause all in all bodybuilders are very open minded about new ideas and strategies.

My argument is:
Why go through an emotional roller coaster going off and on?
If you like the benifits of being on, why not stay on?
People hate clomid, why bother with that or nolva more than you have to?
The only difference between complete suppression and normal cycle length suppression is 6 weeks PCT vs 4 weeks PCT, HRT does not have to be forever.
Studies with aging rats show that testosterone production is restored to youthfull levels when leydig cells are allowed to atrophy and regrow, so there is no health risk to long term suppression.
As long as you pick a regime that doesn't include winstrol, or require strong aromatase inhibition, your blood lipid profile and blood pressure should stay within reasonable limits.
You can still use a harsh stack for a while if you want to, and go back to the milder regime.

[justtrnd40]

So are you saying that if someone decides to do a low dose test cruise between cycles and they do that for lets say 10yrs and then decide to go off that if they run proper pct for 6 weeks they will not be shut down?

[Swifto]

So are you saying that if someone decides to do a low dose test cruise between cycles and they do that for lets say 10yrs and then decide to go off that if they run proper pct for 6 weeks they will not be shut down?

That study is just as well, but....Its for rats.

I cant see how a 6 week PCT protocall is going to be effective after such a long peroid of suppression or possibly, shutdown.

[Tren Bull]

for me it really depends on whats going on in my life. there have been times when i have felt great while on cycle (other than the limping from the gt products) and there was one cycle when i felt suicidal the entire time. im not positive, but im guessing that something like priomobolan would be the least likely to cause depression.

[Auto54]

Maybe there is a chemical reason not to... but what about just taking an anti-depressant at the end of the cycle? Toss in some Zoloft or something the last two weeks and continue it through PCT? Or maybe even some herbel subs like St. John's Wort or Calm?

[c eastwood]

I'm not sure about other anti-dep. meds but I know from personal experience that Zoloft would be a poor choice.
Zoloft isn't something that should be used for a short term. It takes 2 months before it reaches it's maximum effect and the anxiety for the first month is severe (I had a hard time going out in public). When stopping treatment you have to go through another month of anxiety.

[Auto54]

I'm not sure about other anti-dep. meds but I know from personal experience that Zoloft would be a poor choice.
Zoloft isn't something that should be used for a short term. It takes 2 months before it reaches it's maximum effect and the anxiety for the first month is severe (I had a hard time going out in public). When stopping treatment you have to go through another month of anxiety.

I think this is a GREAT thread! Those who have never experienced REAL depression likely all think we are a bunch of wussies... but those that have know it is a REAL condition that MUST be treated.

Anywho, with that said, I am currently coming off Zoloft. I was taking 100mg/day for the first few days and it FREAKED ME OUT! I believe it was day 3 and I had what could be called a serious panic attack. Of course, at the time I didn't realize it could cause the shakes and stuff. NOTE: I was going through a bunch of s**t and knew I needed something... well my ex gave me some of her Z until I could get to the Doc. I was being a "man" and took 100mg/day (she was taking 50mg). MISTAKE! Doc yelled at me and said cut back to 50mg/day. I did and I felt MUCH better!!

It does take a week or so to really start working. I don't know about how long it takes for its "max"... I was only on it for 2 months. I still have about 20 pills left... I worked off of them taking 50mg/eod w/ St. John's Wort on the off days. Now I just take St. John's Wort twice a day (when I remember). Things are back in order in my house and I don't feel I need it (thank God!).

Anywho... there are LOTS of anti-depression meds out there... that was just one example that came to mind (because 1) I have experience w/ it and 2) I could spell it LOL!).

With Z in mind, it does take a while to start working. Thats why I said maybe start it towards the end of the cycle (not AT the end)... say somewhere between week 8-10 on a 12 week cycle (no more than 50mg/day... maybe even 25mg).

Another note... it gave me the squirts for a week! So HYDRATE! LOL!

Of course, I'm not a doc or even close. So like I said... there might be some drug reaction reason to NOT do this!!! Also, there might be another anti-D that is much better for this use.

But seeing that depression post-cycle seems to be a problem, I was just wondering if this option had ever been investigated.

Maybe those that are brave enough to be honest w/ their docs about their cycles/depression/etc can do some checking?

[Warrior]

Have you had blood and psycological testing to find out what the root of your depression is? Testosterone has helped men with depression in clinical studies... but I would be best to know what is causing it... and then the effects of the androgens can be better realized...

[Auto54]

No not at first. I went to the doc, told him what was going on in my life, and my symptions. He said "take this." He did go ahead and order up a blood work-up, though. Everything checked out OK. Mine was not a physical/chemical problem.

Just to note: I wouldn't call what I went through "clinical depression." My sister is and she will be on meds the rest of her life. She just has a chemical imbalance and needs certain meds to keep her level. Nothing wrong w/ that.

Mine was just from a whole entire host of things going on all at once in my life. Did go through some psych, too! Not just the pills. More or less, had PTSD (shell shock) from the events I went through. Also one of the reasons I wasted away from 170 to 150.

But anywho... not to hijack the thread...

Still think the anti-D's should be at least investigated for those coming off cycle.

Have you had blood and psycological testing to find out what the root of your depression is? Testosterone has helped men with depression in clinical studies... but I would be best to know what is causing it... and then the effects of the androgens can be better realized...

[Warrior]

Still think the anti-D's should be at least investigated for those coming off cycle.

Wellbutrin's effect as D1 and D2 dopamine agonsits can help many retain gains post cycle... read Lyle McDonald's book, Bromocriptine, it dives into it pretty well. He talks about Wellbutrin in the last chapter... but nearly the entire book talks about fighting the body's desire to downregulate metabolism in favor for fat gain and muscle loss during caloric defecit's. If McDonald's studies hold water - D1 and D2 agonists keep the body partitioning calories toward muscle gain and fat loss under extended caloric defecits... which would really benefit someone during PCT...

[Theatrix]

Excellent thread!... This topic is too important to ignore. Whether one is prone to depression due to circumstances in their lives or legitimatley have a chemical imbalance, the problem is real and should receive its own forum. It would provide a helpful service to serious BB and atheletes alike.

[Mike Dura]

Finding "the cause" of depression is not a simple affair. Instead of "cause" it's better to think of depression "correlates. A correlate is something that goes along with something else. For example, negative thinking is a correlate of negative mood. Negative mood is a correlate of low serotonin. But we can't say low serotonin is the cause of negative moods because maybe it's negative moods that are the cause of low serotonin or maybe a third variable causes negative moods and low serotonin. So, there's what's known as the problem of direction; as in, does A cause B or B cause A; and there's the problem of 3rd variable, does C cause A and B. All we reallly know is that there are relationships among these variable and you can target one of the variables to change the others. For example, cognitive Behavioral therapy targets thoughts so that if you change the thoughts the moods change and the neurochemistry changes (e.g., serotonin and Neuroephinephrine). The medical model, by contrast, targets neurotransmitters, and with that the mood can change and the thoughts. The best approach seems to be to target more than one variable. For example, you can get cognitive therapy and be on meds. My point is, I think one has to appreciate that the ways of the mind are complicated and it may be satisfying to simplify it down to simple cause and effect but it comes at the expense of valid understanding.

Have you had blood and psycological testing to find out what the root of your depression is? Testosterone has helped men with depression in clinical studies... but I would be best to know what is causing it... and then the effects of the androgens can be better realized...

[Mike Dura]

But than again, sometimes, a primary cause is more clear. Like with Andropause or post traumitic stress disorder. But in my case, it's not that clear cut as to simple cause.

Have you had blood and psycological testing to find out what the root of your depression is? Testosterone has helped men with depression in clinical studies... but I would be best to know what is causing it... and then the effects of the androgens can be better realized...

[Mike Dura]

I agree with you. Depression is stigmatized in our culture because in our language it's common to think of depression as something in your head or a disease of the mind rather than the body. The mind/body dualism of the west is probaly an artifice of culture. Scientist and Buddhist think of mind and body as one so that depression is a disease of the body (the mind is a part of the body). More generally, people don't hear it well when they hear a person has depression and this further alientates a deppresssed person. "What's bothering you?", they'll inquire, or pull yourself out of it? It seems that people don't have a good grasp of what depression is. Unfortunately, for guys, their way of thinking about depression is reflective of the cultural understanding and they feel weak for being unable to "pull themselves out of it." And men are less likely to reach out for help with depression and that's unfortunate. Men, moreso than woman, tend to befriend only practical relationships - especially into marraige, and it would be ill advised to share depression with colleauges or coworkers. Woman tend to be social networkers (outside of mere work relationships) so this works to their advantage because they are less likely to become socially estranged and isolated which can esalate depression. Men suffer more than necessary because of the insufficient understanding and social dynamics. My advice to any person, particularly men who feel a prolonged blue feeling or fatigue is to research it online and then see a doctor. The sooner the better. Also, don't trust your thinking. Depression alters your thoughts and you tend to become rigid minded and lose perspective. I wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy.

I think this is a GREAT thread! Those who have never experienced REAL depression likely all think we are a bunch of wussies... but those that have know it is a REAL condition that MUST be treated.

Anywho, with that said, I am currently coming off Zoloft. I was taking 100mg/day for the first few days and it FREAKED ME OUT! I believe it was day 3 and I had what could be called a serious panic attack. Of course, at the time I didn't realize it could cause the shakes and stuff. NOTE: I was going through a bunch of s**t and knew I needed something... well my ex gave me some of her Z until I could get to the Doc. I was being a "man" and took 100mg/day (she was taking 50mg). MISTAKE! Doc yelled at me and said cut back to 50mg/day. I did and I felt MUCH better!!

It does take a week or so to really start working. I don't know about how long it takes for its "max"... I was only on it for 2 months. I still have about 20 pills left... I worked off of them taking 50mg/eod w/ St. John's Wort on the off days. Now I just take St. John's Wort twice a day (when I remember). Things are back in order in my house and I don't feel I need it (thank God!).

Anywho... there are LOTS of anti-depression meds out there... that was just one example that came to mind (because 1) I have experience w/ it and 2) I could spell it LOL!).

With Z in mind, it does take a while to start working. Thats why I said maybe start it towards the end of the cycle (not AT the end)... say somewhere between week 8-10 on a 12 week cycle (no more than 50mg/day... maybe even 25mg).

Another note... it gave me the squirts for a week! So HYDRATE! LOL!

Of course, I'm not a doc or even close. So like I said... there might be some drug reaction reason to NOT do this!!! Also, there might be another anti-D that is much better for this use.

But seeing that depression post-cycle seems to be a problem, I was just wondering if this option had ever been investigated.

Maybe those that are brave enough to be honest w/ their docs about their cycles/depression/etc can do some checking?

[Theatrix]

Finding "the cause" of depression is not a simple affair. Instead of "cause" it's better to think of depression "correlates. A correlate is something that goes along with something else. For example, negative thinking is a correlate of negative mood. Negative mood is a correlate of low serotonin. But we can't say low serotonin is the cause of negative moods because maybe it's negative moods that are the cause of low serotonin or maybe a third variable causes negative moods and low serotonin. So, there's what's known as the problem of direction; as in, does A cause B or B cause A; and there's the problem of 3rd variable, does C cause A and B. All we reallly know is that there are relationships among these variable and you can target one of the variables to change the others. For example, cognitive Behavioral therapy targets thoughts so that if you change the thoughts the moods change and the neurochemistry changes (e.g., serotonin and Neuroephinephrine). The medical model, by contrast, targets neurotransmitters, and with that the mood can change and the thoughts. The best approach seems to be to target more than one variable. For example, you can get cognitive therapy and be on meds. My point is, I think one has to appreciate that the ways of the mind are complicated and it may be satisfying to simplify it down to simple cause and effect but it comes at the expense of valid understanding.

Well written, Mike! It is a very complicated subject.

[63190]

I'm doing cognitive thereapy as well as chemical. I'm on Effexor at 150mgED.
I've been feeling down for years and finally went to see some one about it. They agreed with me. My mom thought I just need some group therapy. My dad wanted to help me since like 1st grade with riddlen, but when it seemed to have no effect, my mom stopped trying.
I don't know if life woulda been different had I had some kind of chemical help during elementary school. All I can worry about is the present and the future.
I want to do a test/dianabol/deca stack. I know I'll probably feel good on cycle. Just worried about PCT.
Should I take clomid or nolva as an anti-e? Guess I'll have to wing it and run Nolva.

[Auto54]

I agree with you. Depression is stigmatized in our culture because in our language it's common to think of depression as something in your head or a disease of the mind rather than the body. The mind/body dualism of the west is probaly an artifice of culture. Scientist and Buddhist think of mind and body as one so that depression is a disease of the body (the mind is a part of the body). More generally, people don't hear it well when they hear a person has depression and this further alientates a deppresssed person. "What's bothering you?", they'll inquire, or pull yourself out of it? It seems that people don't have a good grasp of what depression is. Unfortunately, for guys, their way of thinking about depression is reflective of the cultural understanding and they feel weak for being unable to "pull themselves out of it." And men are less likely to reach out for help with depression and that's unfortunate. Men, moreso than woman, tend to befriend only practical relationships - especially into marraige, and it would be ill advised to share depression with colleauges or coworkers. Woman tend to be social networkers (outside of mere work relationships) so this works to their advantage because they are less likely to become socially estranged and isolated which can esalate depression. Men suffer more than necessary because of the insufficient understanding and social dynamics. My advice to any person, particularly men who feel a prolonged blue feeling or fatigue is to research it online and then see a doctor. The sooner the better. Also, don't trust your thinking. Depression alters your thoughts and you tend to become rigid minded and lose perspective. I wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy.

AMEN!

And I hate to admit, but up until about 6 months ago I was one of those guys that'd say "pull yourself out of it" or maybe even "lets go have a beer, you'll feel better" (NO!).

And the "dont trust your thinking" part is SOOO right on! I don't want to make it sound like everyone who is depressed is a nut case, but your mind just isn't working right! Your decision making process is for sh*t!

Asking for help was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life! Weird thing is, if I wouldn't have taken too much Zoloft to begin with, I wouldn't have had the panic attack, and I don't know if I ever would have asked for the help I needed. I can laugh about it now, but still!

And the mind/body is far more real than many realize! I was eating one mean a day (and hardly anything then) for almost a month. Before and after that time I wasn't much better. I could literally feel my body wasting away!

I agree a topic such as this should be highlighted!

[63190]

Sticky it, bump.

[Milky87]

The most productive thing to do would be for your friend to solve his depression. Aslong as he isnt wanting to commit suicide, a good psychedelic could help.

Most psychedelics are legal to posess, just like the research chemicals at Lion sells.

[100%NATURAL-theGH]

Deca= Depression EQ= Anxiety Tren= Anger... Test= small amounts of all of them but more bearable than the rest... Don't go over 500mg though to be safe... and EQ was the easiest besides but I wasn't impressed with my gains from EQ...

[SS1476]

good read,thanks!

[Mike Dura]

Tell me more about these legal psychedelics!

The most productive thing to do would be for your friend to solve his depression. Aslong as he isnt wanting to commit suicide, a good psychedelic could help.

Most psychedelics are legal to posess, just like the research chemicals at Lion sells.

[Mike Dura]

I can relate. It's taken me - get this - 8 years to do anything about it. It's caused me much injury. After a while, I didn't think I had depression. I just thought I was defective in general and I was using depression as an excuse for my shortcomings. Having depression for so long - I forgot who I was. I still don't know. People tell me I've changed alot. I'm not as outgoing or energetic. All I do know is that I love to train. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. That and my relationship with my girlfriend. Maybe this seems narrow but it's all I really want to do and I want to make it my life. I love the experience of training. I also love to see if I will be bigger than my pain. Always the gauntlet thrown down before me. Exciting, fight club kind of stuff

[Mike Dura]

Hey brother. It's great to hear you're getting help. My advice is that you read as much as you can on your own about these things whether it's Ridalyn, ADHD, depression, etc. Be careful with hormone use with depression too. No need to rush into it. Research it first. Good luck.

I'm doing cognitive thereapy as well as chemical. I'm on Effexor at 150mgED.
I've been feeling down for years and finally went to see some one about it. They agreed with me. My mom thought I just need some group therapy. My dad wanted to help me since like 1st grade with riddlen, but when it seemed to have no effect, my mom stopped trying.
I don't know if life woulda been different had I had some kind of chemical help during elementary school. All I can worry about is the present and the future.
I want to do a test/dianabol/deca stack. I know I'll probably feel good on cycle. Just worried about PCT.
Should I take clomid or nolva as an anti-e? Guess I'll have to wing it and run Nolva.[/QUOTE]

[Milky87]

Most psychedelics are sold as 'research chemicals'. Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was a chemist named Alexander Shulgin who was completely facinated by the human pyche. He worked in a lab he built on his farm developing chemicals with similar structures to the neurotransmiters serotonin, dopamine and epinephrine.

Since none of these chemicals are illegal (yet), they can be legaly sold but not for ingesting. If you are interesting in readingmore about them, chek out www.erowid.org. Start by readingup on '2C-E'. 2C-E is from the phenethylamine family of psychedelics. Another class of psychedelics are the tryptamines such as psylocybin (the active chemical in 'magic mushrooms') and its relatives

[james21]

Most psychedelics are sold as 'research chemicals'. Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was a chemist named Alexander Shulgin who was completely facinated by the human pyche. He worked in a lab he built on his farm developing chemicals with similar structures to the neurotransmiters serotonin, dopamine and epinephrine.

Since none of these chemicals are illegal (yet), they can be legaly sold but not for ingesting. If you are interesting in readingmore about them, chek out www.erowid.org. Start by readingup on '2C-E'. 2C-E is from the phenethylamine family of psychedelics. Another class of psychedelics are the tryptamines such as psylocybin (the active chemical in 'magic mushrooms') and its relatives

Yeah, a bunch of research labs have been busted selling these chemicals due to deaths from them. Also i believe this board isnt here to discuss psychedelics or rec drugs.

Back on topic I am very anxiety prone, attacks etc. And i have noticed tbol/test are very good for me make me feel like a million $$$. But other things like var by itself made me have severe anxiety along with eq. Also dbol at moderate dosages was pretty good.

[doctor41baller]

I agree that test would be the best bet. But for someone who has chronic depression, I would think any type of steroid would be a high risk. I used Tren once and man I had some major emotional swings...I wanted to eat people at times. Next time I used it with Test and had no mood swings whatsoever. Everyone is different, but theres my story...