Cutting/Strength (Tren E.) cycle with fewest injections?

[MuscleGuy45]

Can you advise on a Cutting/Strength stack with the *fewest injections? Would like to only inject twice a week if possible.

If can gain strength (hence Anavar Tren E.) and lose some BF that would be super!

Winstrol not listed as believe not good if joints not too good.

Thinking of something along the lines of:
wks 3-13 300-500mg Tren Enth pr wk
wks 3-13 400mg Primo pr wk *
wks 3-13 40mg Anavar pr day
wks 3-14 50mg Proviron pr day
wks 1- 14 400mg B6 (Prog. Gyno precaution, instead of Broc.)

Elbow repair:
Adequan (preferred, if can get hold of it to the UK...), else Aflutop ED...
Believe injured during 6 plate weighted bench tricep dips 8 years ago....

Stats:
Age : 32
Weight: 114 kg
Height: 6ft
BF: 26%
Frame: Meso-Endomorph
Blood Results: Slightly fatty liver (now taking Liv 52), other blood work fine.

Cycles:
1 recent - 666 Test En., 500 Equipose Bolderone, 2.5mg Fermara EOD, 10mg Nolvadex
4 over 6 years ago not worth talking about....

Diet: Clean :

Meal Time Food Amount Unit Grams g Protein g Carbohydrates g Fat Total Lipids g Calories kcal
Meal 1 08:00 milk, fluid, skim 320 ml 331.36 11.296 16.064 0.608 115.976
Meal 1 08:00 cereals, quaker, quick oats, dry 45 grams 45 6.165 30.681 3.092 166.95
Meal 1 08:00 whey protein concentrate 80 (nz) 50 gram 50 40.333 2.167 3.667 205
Meal 1 08:00 coffee, instant, regular, powder 1.5 heaping teaspoon 2.7 0.33 1.11 0.015 6.507
Meal 2 10:00 cheese, cottage, lowfat, 2% milkfat 125 grams 125 17.175 4.537 2.413 112.5
Meal 2 10:00 oat cakes 100 gram 6 34 3.5 191
Meal 3 12:00 soy sau made from soy (tamari) 4 tbsp 72 7.56 4 0.08 43.2
Meal 3 12:00 rice, brown, long-grain, raw 80 grams 80 6.352 61.792 2.336 296
Meal 3 12:00 chicken breast ( oven roasted,fat free ) 150 grams 150 27.45 2.55 0.9 127.5
Meal 4 14:00 oat cakes 100 gram 6 34 3.5 191
Meal 4 14:00 tuna, lt, cnd in h2o, wo/salt, drnd sol 100 grams 100 25.51 0 0.82 116
Meal 5 16:00 chicken breast ( oven roasted,fat free ) 150 grams 150 27.45 2.55 0.9 127.5
Meal 5 16:00 broccoli, ckd, bld, drnd, w/salt 100 grams 100 2.98 5.06 0.35 28
Meal 6 18:00 cheese, cottage, lowfat, 2% milkfat 125 grams 125 17.18 4.54 2.41 112.5
Meal 7 20:00 bread, pita, whole-wheat 1 pita, large (6-1/2" dia) 64 6.27 35.2 1.66 170.24
Meal 7 20:00 chicken breast ( oven roasted,fat free ) 150 grams 150 27.45 2.55 0.9 127.5
Meal 8 22:00 milk, fluid, skim 400 ml 414.2 14.12 20.08 0.76 144.97
Meal 8 22:00 whey protein concentrate 80 (nz) 50 gram 50 40.33 2.17 3.67 205

TOTALS Protein 290, Carbs 263, Fat 32, Calories 2487


Exercise: Weights 4 times a week every other day
Fat Burn 4 times a week for 45 - 60 minnutes , BPM 140.

Questions:
1. Cycle OK?
2. To reduce costs what could be used instead of Primo?
3. Would it be OK to do 1ml Decca each week/other week for elbows? May aid Gyno as Tren in cycle. Want to use Tren E though!
4. As using Tren, should some Test be added?

Any other advice gladly taken!!!!

[Hellmaskbanned]

With 26% bodyfat, doing a cutting cycle won't be very beneficial if when your finished you still have fat covering your muscle. I would get down to 15% BF before I did a cutter.

[BajanBastard]

With 26% bodyfat, doing a cutting cycle won't be very beneficial if when your finished you still have fat covering your muscle. I would get down to 15% BF before I did a cutter.

Why do you think it's called a 'cutting' cycle?

Welcome MG45.

I would use strong androgens to aid in the fat loss process.

Testosterone enanthate
Trenbolone enanthate (if you have exp with tren)
An aromatize inhibitor to lower estrogen levels and block estrogen and progesterone receptors this will aid in fat loss.
A low dose of T3 (thyroid hormore) to optimize metabolic rate and control prolactin levels from the tren.

And of course a diet and cardio regimen to suite your goals.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Why do you think it's called a 'cutting' cycle?

Welcome MG45.

I would use strong androgens to aid in the fat loss process.

Testosterone enanthate
Trenbolone enanthate (if you have exp with tren)
An aromatize inhibitor to lower estrogen levels and block estrogen and progesterone receptors this will aid in fat loss.
A low dose of T3 (thyroid hormore) to optimize metabolic rate and control prolactin levels from the tren.

And of course a diet and cardio regimen to suite your goals.

Well obviously if you have 26% bodyfat your not in the physical condition to be cycleing. Seems pretty self explianatory.

[BajanBastard]

Well obviously if you have 26% bodyfat your not in the physical condition to be cycleing. Seems pretty self explianatory.

Says who? Care to explain why he can't.

He's not cycling for muscle gains, he's employing androgens to burn fat and help hold onto muscle during cardio and a restricted calorie diet. Do you think top level competitors who bulk up in the off season wait until they are at 15% BF to start a cutting cycle before a show?

[Hellmaskbanned]

Says who? Care to explain why he can't.

He's not cycling for muscle gains, he's employing androgens to burn fat and help hold onto muscle during cardio and a restricted calorie diet. Do you think top level competitors who bulk up in the off season wait until they are at 15% BF to start a cutting cycle before a show?

Is he a pro?........

If your dedicated to weightlifting and overall fitness , you should be in better shape before you turn to aas. The body is capable of gaining muscle or burning fat on it's own. HARD WORK.

[BajanBastard]

Is he a pro?........

If your dedicated to weightlifting and overall fitness , you should be in better shape before you turn to aas. The body is capable of gaining muscle or burning fat on it's own. HARD WORK.

So are you saying steroid use automatically makes things a cake walk? What’s the difference between a pro at 25% BF who needs to get at 5% for a show and someone who just wants to lose the fat?

He could take 10g Tren a week and not lift and do cardio and gain no benefits. I just don't understand where you are coming from, 25% or 15% it doesn't matter using your logic because all it takes is "HARD WORK", it takes hard work to lose the fat and steroids will help the process.

[Hellmaskbanned]

So are you saying steroid use automatically makes things a cake walk? What’s the difference between a pro at 25% BF who needs to get at 5% for a show and someone who just wants to lose the fat?

He could take 10g Tren a week and not lift and do cardio and gain no benefits. I just don't understand where you are coming from, 25% or 15% it doesn't matter using your logic because all it takes is "HARD WORK", it takes hard work to lose the fat and steroids will help the process.

Why are you comparing him to pro bodybuilders? Is he one, He probably isn't so that's not a very good comparison on what he should and shouldn't do. Where's the logic in that....not much really.

Why should he be so dependent on steroids? Does he compete? Is he just wanting to drop some Bf just to feel better at the beach < ---He probably fits under that catorgory then lets say, a professional BBEr that you keep refering too. If you compete sorry muscle, I didn't know.

He could take 10grms of tren a week and barely lift and do cardio and reap alot of benefits...... But thats not the discussion. The discussion is why be so dependent on aas while his goal is easily achievable without them?

[Hellmaskbanned]

And further more,

I don't care if you use aas or not muscleguy , it's your health and your life.
I just wouldn't with your listed perdicametn

[BajanBastard]

Why are you comparing him to pro bodybuilders? Is he one, He probably isn't so that's not a very good comparison on what he should and shouldn't do. Where's the logic in that....not much really.

Why should he be so dependent on steroids? Does he compete? Is he just wanting to drop some Bf just to feel better at the beach < ---He probably fits under that catorgory then lets say, a professional BBEr that you keep refering too. If you compete sorry muscle, I didn't know.

He could take 10grms of tren a week and barely lift and do cardio and reap alot of benefits...... But thats not the discussion. The discussion is why be so dependent on aas while his goal is easily achievable without them?

I'm comparing him to a Pro because they would have the same goal: lose BF% while holding on to as much as muscle mass as possible. Simple as that. He's not being 'dependent' on the AAS just using them for a little push to aid in the fat loss. What's so horrible about that?

BTW you still need to clarify why AAS cannot be used for cutting at a high BF%.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I'm comparing him to a Pro because they would have the same goal: lose BF% while holding on to as much as muscle mass as possible. Simple as that. He's not being 'dependent' on the AAS just using them for a little push to aid in the fat loss. What's so horrible about that?

BTW you still need to clarify why AAS cannot be used for cutting at a high BF%.

Did you not read my posts???


You can compare him to a obese female trying to lose weight, a pro bodybuilder trying to lose weight, or even a lab rat in a scientific study used to research weight loss.

I just compared him to a normal person with a high BF wanting to cut down so he can feel better about himself. But compare to whatever....

[BajanBastard]

[/B]


Did you not read my posts???


You can compare him to a obese female trying to lose weight, a pro bodybuilder trying to lose weight, or even a lab rat in a scientific study used to research weight loss.

I just compared him to a normal person with a high BF wanting to cut down so he can feel better about himself. But compare to whatever....

Actually i'm reading your posts and you have yet to give a reason, real world or scientific, as to why AAS cannot/should not be used to assist in the lowering of BF even at 26%. You constantly talk about my comparison to him to a competitive bodybuilder. The bodybuilder wants to go to the show ripped to win or the dude who wants to go the beach with a 6 pack for the chicks, the goal is the same: to get to a low BF% while avoiding as much muscle loss as possible, that is the ultimate goal no matter who is doing it.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Actually i'm reading your posts and you have yet to give a reason, real world or scientific, as to why AAS cannot/should not be used to assist in the lowering of BF even at 26%. You constantly talk about my comparison to him to a competitive bodybuilder. The bodybuilder wants to go to the show ripped to win or the dude who wants to go the beach with a 6 pack for the chicks, the goal is the same: to get to a low BF% while avoiding as much muscle loss as possible, that is the ultimate goal no matter who is doing it.

I think thats a very poor/unhealthy comparison to give to the average person. But whatever , it's your opinion just like I have mine.


Like I said in my other posts.

"Well obviously if you have 26% bodyfat your not in the physical condition to be cycleing"

"The body is capable of gaining muscle or burning fat on it's own. HARD WORK."

"The discussion is why be so dependent on aas while his goal is easily achievable without them?"

^^^
So if you put those together, it states that it is very achievable to get to his goal without the use of powerful hormones.

Of course using would help him out more than without. Thats common sense.



Now if you don't mind.... I would like to see some scientific evidence as to why AAS can/should be used to assist in the lowering of BF even at 26% on a healthy adult male that is capable of doing it on his own without a physical condition or disease that is hindering him....

Of course there are studys showing the use of aas helped fatloss. He wants to drop BF not clean & jerk 600lbs. So why aas?

[BajanBastard]

I think thats a very poor/unhealthy comparison to give to the average person. But whatever , it's your opinion just like I have mine.


Like I said in my other posts.

"Well obviously if you have 26% bodyfat your not in the physical condition to be cycleing"

"The body is capable of gaining muscle or burning fat on it's own. HARD WORK."

"The discussion is why be so dependent on aas while his goal is easily achievable without them?"

^^^
So if you put those together, it states that it is very achievable to get to his goal without the use of powerful hormones.

Of course using would help him out more than without. Thats common sense.



Now if you don't mind.... I would like to see some scientific evidence as to why AAS can/should be used to assist in the lowering of BF even at 26% on a healthy adult male that is capable of doing it on his own without a physical condition or disease that is hindering him....

Of course there are studys showing the use of aas helped fatloss. He wants to drop BF not clean & jerk 600lbs. So why aas?

I don't need to post anymore evidence than i already have, just read the steroid profiles written by me, A.R and others and you'll see.
I'm assuming he is a healthy individual and its safe IMO for him to use androgens lightly to assist in the lowering in his BF%, even at 26% . Why should he lose some of his hard earned muscle gains and take a longer time to get to the BF levels he wants just because someone says do it 'natty'? Makes no sense to me.

This comment is interesting (in bold) with or without steroids he's still doing it on his own. The drugs only amplify the effects of the diet and training.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I don't need to post anymore evidence than i already have, just read the steroid profiles written by me, A.R and others and you'll see.
I'm assuming he is a healthy individual and its safe IMO for him to use androgens lightly to assist in the lowering in his BF%, even at 26% . Why should he lose some of his hard earned muscle gains and take a longer time to get to the BF levels he wants just because someone says do it 'natty'? Makes no sense to me.

This comment is interesting (in bold) with or without steroids he's still doing it on his own. The drugs only amplify the effects of the diet and training.

Exactly.... He is doing it on his own.
You think he should use them to help with his goal, as I don't.
It's all cool playa.

[BajanBastard]

Exactly.... He is doing it on his own.
You think he should use them to help with his goal, as I don't.
It's all cool playa.

Cool, nice having this debate with you.

[MuscleGuy45]

Thanks guy's my first post at this forum and a long discusion!

OK understand both sides. And diet/fat burning will continue! and cycle wise have not done that much in 7 years so body ok, eat clean take Liv 52 and diet now in check.

Have lost about 10% since Christmas. My diet I believe is in check as supplied above. Maybe could even bump calories up by 200.

Haven't yet done Tren. E. but heard as blood/plasma levels are kept more constant then Test Ac. and less injections would give that a go.

Elbows, well adding a shot of decca one a week or every other weeks sounds good, but not sure as will increase Prog. Gyno... But will take 400mg B6.

As a novice still not sure about the amount of Tren. En. Also not sure what could swap for the Primo to save costs. The course is around $1,400 so far.

Would be nice to do Tren. E. for the dreams, extra strength and for some cutting.

Lastly in Anabolic Steroids I am a little confused as its sort of says Testerone should be stacked with Tren. Witht he cycle above, the agreedients mentioned do you think any more testerone is needed?

[guns626]

I was waiting to see who lost there cool first and resorted to name calling. We are much dumber for having listened to you, I award you no points, and may God have mercy onyour souls.

[MuscleGuy45]

Bumping for reponse to further questions.

[GQ-Bouncer]

I was waiting to see who lost there cool first and resorted to name calling. We are much dumber for having listened to you, I award you no points, and may God have mercy onyour souls.

LOL

[guns626]

I hope you bro's know I was joking! You guys both made excellent points.

[MuscleGuy45]

As a novice still not sure about the amount of Tren. En. Also not sure what could swap for the Primo to save costs. The course is around $1,400 so far.

Would be nice to do Tren. E. for the dreams, extra strength and for some cutting.

Lastly in Anabolic Steroids I am a little confused as its sort of says Testerone should be stacked with Tren. Witht he cycle above, the agreedients mentioned do you think any more testerone is needed?

[PurplePatriot]

hey big klg

if its ok for someone at 26% body fat to be cycling is it ok for someone thats 5'10 120lbs to be cycling too?

Both are equally as logical.

[fred9]

you can easily go to 15-18% without the use of roids and still maintaining ur mass....

[MuscleGuy45]

I give up...

[BajanBastard]

As a novice still not sure about the amount of Tren. En. Also not sure what could swap for the Primo to save costs. The course is around $1,400 so far.

Would be nice to do Tren. E. for the dreams, extra strength and for some cutting.

Lastly in Anabolic Steroids I am a little confused as its sort of says Testerone should be stacked with Tren. Witht he cycle above, the agreedients mentioned do you think any more testerone is needed?

Honestly you need to do much more research on cutting AAS and cutting in general. What's your exact cycle history?

[BajanBastard]

hey big klg

if its ok for someone at 26% body fat to be cycling is it ok for someone thats 5'10 120lbs to be cycling too?

Both are equally as logical.

I see where you're coming from.

Ok then, let's say the guy is 5'10 @ 120 lbs (that friggin' bad tho), if he started training 3 weeks ago and eats popcorn as him main protein source then no, i absolutely would not advise him to use AAS. We all know that the gains (if any) would not be permanent and would be quickly lost due to poor diet and lack of training experience.

Now using the same person but under different circumstances, the guy has been training for 3-5 yrs, started out 5'11 @ 99lbs, now he's 120lbs. The weight gain shows he knows how to eat and his training seems solid. But now he's stuck and the extra kcals are not doing anything. In this case AAS use to give things a little push is not out of the question.

This is all just my opinion of course and not a very popular line of thinking.