to supplement or not???-need advice!

**musclestack** · 05-22-2006, 09:08 PM

I know there are mixed views about supplementing with protein shakes and weight gainers. I am currently on a bulking diet aiming for as close to 6,000 calories per day as possible. I find it hard to consume this many calories eating clean foods, so I have resorted to a couple of weight gainer shakes/day. I've acutally always used weight gainers, but I just wanted to know the pros and cons of using them. A lot of people tell me they are great because they are more easily digested than solid foods, but others tell me they're not because they contain things that the body cannot fully digest. Well, what are these "things"?

Please feel free to throw in your 2 cents.
I'm especially looking for input from someone(s) with much knowledge with supplementing...

Thanks,
MS

**mwolffey** · 05-23-2006, 08:09 AM

post your diet and a list of macros and calories, and your stats as well....you must be huge cause 6000 is a bit much for most imo

**musclestack** · 05-23-2006, 11:16 AM

Thanks for your reply, bro. But I was actually just wondering about the pros and cons of weight gainers, not advice on how many calories I need to take in per/day (no offense intended). However, if it puts your mind at ease, I'm actually not huge: 5'8", 190 lbs., about 12% bf. I'm looking to put on as much muscle as possible this summer, that's why I'm taking in so many cals. I can pretty well eat whatever I want and however much I want without worrying about going over 14% bf (high metabolism). Another reason for the high cals is cuz I work manual labor all day and sweat my @ss off doing it, so I know I'll be burning some up during the day.

Anyone else regarding the original question?
Thanks,
MS

**musclestack** · 05-23-2006, 11:17 AM

bump

**edgarr** · 05-23-2006, 11:51 AM

6000? I am your size and I am only taking in half of that. I will let the experts help out here but I would think that you will put on more fat then muscle taking in this many cals. What does your whole diet look like?

**lc1987** · 05-23-2006, 01:13 PM

if you don't wanna go over 14% bf then i beleive that is impossible because of your size.no doubt you will gain mass doing this but fat gain would be rapid. but to answer your question, i have not used weight gainers before because it's just full of complex carbs i'd rather eat oats instead.

**mwolffey** · 05-23-2006, 02:09 PM

all a gainer is gonna do for you is fill in extra calories if you are not getting them in food, and most gainers i would not even touch they are so bad for you...imo the only time i would use a gainer would be for PWO nutrution because mose have a mix of simple carbs and whey, imo cytogainer is the best

**taiotosh7** · 05-23-2006, 02:35 PM

weight gainers are very heavy drinks, it's hard for your body to digest such a heavy surplus amount of nutrition at once in a drink form. When you chew food you release digestive enzymes mixed in your saliva which help digest you food over an amount of time.......now when you are consuming over 1000 cals, 30-40g pro, plus sugar, puls carbs, and so many other things in a drink over a 5min time span then yes....you probably won't use all that you are consuming. Now you can get weight gainers with digestive enzymes in them, or some take digestive enzymes in a pill form when consuming so much food.

Any time you bulk you're gonna get fat. Now there is such thing is a "clean bulk" but I think that 6000 calories a day is far from a clean bulk for anybody....I think 6000 cals is way too much for anybody to be consuming, way too much...especially for a guy who is 5'8" and not even 200lbs. Try 3500 to 4000 cals and mostly through food. I use an awesome weight gainer called MUSCLE JUICE by ULTIMATE NUTRITION....good cal/fat/carb/pro content. It even lists all the aminos you're getting as your protein...tastes awesome too..........otherwise try eating deep fried sticks of butter, this will guarantee weight gain w/o hitting 6000 calories

**musclestack** · 05-23-2006, 05:31 PM

Thanks for all the responses. It DOES make sense that it would be hard to digest all those calories in such a short time period as I am seeing this is the main con of weight gainers according to all of your posts. I'm honestly trying to eat as much solid foods as possible; I am not one for excuses.

Any advice for what certain foods would be good for a bulking diet? I'll do a search, but in the meantime, if anyone stumbles along this thread, please feel free to throw in your 2 cents as to what types of foods you eat (high in calories) while bulking.

Thanks a lot,
MS

**musclestack** · 05-23-2006, 05:34 PM

bump

**mwolffey** · 05-23-2006, 07:33 PM

whats the bump for??? we told you what they do bro

**StateChamp** · 05-23-2006, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by musclestack

Thanks for all the responses. It DOES make sense that it would be hard to digest all those calories in such a short time period as I am seeing this is the main con of weight gainers according to all of your posts. I'm honestly trying to eat as much solid foods as possible; I am not one for excuses.

Any advice for what certain foods would be good for a bulking diet? I'll do a search, but in the meantime, if anyone stumbles along this thread, please feel free to throw in your 2 cents as to what types of foods you eat (high in calories) while bulking.

Thanks a lot,
MS

I took this from the sticky in the diet forum. seems like an excellent bulking schedule.

Meal 1: Pro/Carb

8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal

50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2: Pro/Fat

Lean Ground Beef, ¼ cup swiss cheese, green veggies

55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat

Meal 3: Pro/Carb

Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
**Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.

Meal 4: Pro/Fat

2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat

Workout

Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

2 Scoops Whey Protein / 80g of Dextrose

40g protein / 80g carbs / 0g fat

Meal 6: PPWO

Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7: Pro/Fat

Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat

Meal 8: Before Bed

3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

That turns into approximately 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

**musclestack** · 05-24-2006, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the HELP, StateChamp. I also found another bulking diet from another thread that is similar to yours but with a bit more calories. I'll try to combine the two and go from there.

MS

**bigpapabuff** · 05-24-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by taiotosh7

weight gainers are very heavy drinks, it's hard for your body to digest such a heavy surplus amount of nutrition at once in a drink form. When you chew food you release digestive enzymes mixed in your saliva which help digest you food over an amount of time.......now when you are consuming over 1000 cals, 30-40g pro, plus sugar, puls carbs, and so many other things in a drink over a 5min time span then yes....you probably won't use all that you are consuming. Now you can get weight gainers with digestive enzymes in them, or some take digestive enzymes in a pill form when consuming so much food.

Any time you bulk you're gonna get fat. Now there is such thing is a "clean bulk" but I think that 6000 calories a day is far from a clean bulk for anybody....I think 6000 cals is way too much for anybody to be consuming, way too much...especially for a guy who is 5'8" and not even 200lbs. Try 3500 to 4000 cals and mostly through food. I use an awesome weight gainer called MUSCLE JUICE by ULTIMATE NUTRITION....good cal/fat/carb/pro content. It even lists all the aminos you're getting as your protein...tastes awesome too..........otherwise try eating deep fried sticks of butter, this will guarantee weight gain w/o hitting 6000 calories

I've been looking into a good weight gainer as well, and it sounds like you know what you are talking about. So I checked out MUSCLE JUICE by ULTIMATE NUTRITION. It looks like a good product, but is it too intense for a beginner.

**taiotosh7** · 05-24-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by bigpapabuff

I've been looking into a good weight gainer as well, and it sounds like you know what you are talking about. So I checked out MUSCLE JUICE by ULTIMATE NUTRITION. It looks like a good product, but is it too intense for a beginner.

As with most weight gainers one serving size is usually 1000 or more calories in 3 or 4 scoops......this is a once a day serving meant to be spread out through the day . For example: Gainers fuel by Twinlabs is probably the heaviest gainer on the market, 1 serving is about 2500 cals in 3 HUGE scoops (think the scoops are about 1 cup of powder each) You put 3 cups of powder in a cup, then add enough milk to make it so it's not like cement would be like cake batter. If you were to consume all this at once you would either not finish it or get sick. It was designed to be served 3 times a day with 1 scoop at a time giving you about 830 cals per scoop which equals the 2500 cals for day whole day......as for the Muscle Juice, 1 serving equals 4 scoops so I take 2 in the morning and 2 post workout. Perfect consistancy for me, and IMO isn't too heavy for anybody

**bigpapabuff** · 05-24-2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by taiotosh7

As with most weight gainers one serving size is usually 1000 or more calories in 3 or 4 scoops......this is a once a day serving meant to be spread out through the day . For example: Gainers fuel by Twinlabs is probably the heaviest gainer on the market, 1 serving is about 2500 cals in 3 HUGE scoops (think the scoops are about 1 cup of powder each) You put 3 cups of powder in a cup, then add enough milk to make it so it's not like cement would be like cake batter. If you were to consume all this at once you would either not finish it or get sick. It was designed to be served 3 times a day with 1 scoop at a time giving you about 830 cals per scoop which equals the 2500 cals for day whole day......as for the Muscle Juice, 1 serving equals 4 scoops so I take 2 in the morning and 2 post workout. Perfect consistancy for me, and IMO isn't too heavy for anybody

Thanks for the info. I looked up some prices and it looks like allsportsnutrition has really good prices, and they sponser this page which makes me want to buy from them. But does anyone know what the turn around time is from allsportsnutrition.com, and how dependible they are?

**bigpapabuff** · 06-06-2006, 02:09 PM

I thought I would let you guys know that I ended up buying OPTIMUM NUTRITION %100 Whey from allsportsnutrion.com. I ordered it last thursday and got it yesterday morning. I didn't realize that it would be that fast, so now I'm thinking about ordering all my stuff on-line. I was looking into CEE, does anyone have any experience with it?

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