time off

[Outlaw**]

If someone wanted to go back on after 6 weeks instead of 12 is there anything he could take to clean out his system to make everything ok?

[marcus300]

Going back on to soon will only create more problems in the long run, why would you want to go back on?

general rule is time on+pct = time off, better still have blood work done to make sure everything is back to normal again,

[AleX-69]

what marcus said...

Get your bloodwork done and if everything is fine, it is ok to jump back on. Have done it myself that way.
Otherwise cycle+pct=time off.

[Outlaw**]

I heard that youre suposed to take off 12 weeks no matter what. I just wanted to get back on for the summer. Does pineapple clean out the blood? Or is there anything I can take to make the time off be cut in half?

[AleX-69]

There are several factors which determine IF you should get back on:

1) blood lipid profile
2) liver values
3) rbc count
4) Test levels
5) kidney values
6)... list goes on...

So the general guideline is to stay off AAS as long as you have been on + PCT. It is supposed that within this timeframe your body has mostly recovered form AAS usage.
But in fact we are all diffrent, so for some people it is possible to go back on after 6 weeks but others need to stay off gear for even longer periods.
The only relieable way to judge if you are ready to get back on is a blood test and personal expierence.
Most of us here get blood drawn on a regular basis and have enough expierence with our bodys to know when to get back on..

[marcus300]

I heard that youre suposed to take off 12 weeks no matter what. I just wanted to get back on for the summer. Does pineapple clean out the blood? Or is there anything I can take to make the time off be cut in half?

Please read the post's the answer is in there,

Time on +pct = time off general rule, better still have blood work done that will determine when its the right time to go back on,

If fruit juice halved the amount of time you need to be off and it fixed the blood, well we would all be drinking gallons of the stuff, it takes 100 days for the blood to regenerate itself

[Outlaw**]

aight, thx...looks like im waiting a few more weeks.

[marcus300]

aight, thx...looks like im waiting a few more weeks.

Its better in the long run.

[Outlaw**]

thx marcus....just sux ass though.

[Bigmax]

yeah it does...but health is more important bro.

[Pinnacle]

I posted this in my idle thoughts thread,but not everyone reads stickies.So here it is..point blank.

Never mind................to much to edit because of Lion nutrition having all those links when you say "estrogen" ect..

[magic32]

I think he got it.
Will wonders never cease? Pineapple...

M.

[cfiler]

Time on + PCT = time off. Get your blood tested, because it may take longer than that for your normal test levels to return.

[Pinnacle]

Time on + PCT = time off. Get your blood tested, because it may take longer than that for your normal test levels to return.

That is a good rule of thumb,but if ones BW comes back fine in 2 mos time and the person decides to get right back on,his results will be minimal at best.It's best to take at least 6 mos off between cycles.You won't have to up the dose hardly at all following a protocol like that,and your results will be reasonable.Notice all the threads lately with guys complaining they can't/aren't growing on cycles?Biggest reason is they are running their cycles far to close together.They get off,recover(they think) and get right back on.Do that(protocol) for a year or so and you'll hit a brick wall QUICK!!

~Pinnacle~

[vitor]

That is a good rule of thumb,but if ones BW comes back fine in 2 mos time and the person decides to get right back on,his results will be minimal at best.It's best to take at least 6 mos off between cycles.You won't have to up the dose hardly at all following a protocol like that,and your results will be reasonable.Notice all the threads lately with guys complaining they can't/aren't growing on cycles?Biggest reason is they are running their cycles far to close together.They get off,recover(they think) and get right back on.Do that(protocol) for a year or so and you'll hit a brick wall QUICK!!

~Pinnacle~

Agreed.

But how often you cycle, has also alot to do with how long you stay on. A guy who dose 6-weeks cycles is going to recover a lot faster than a guy who does 14 week-cycles.

I like to do short cycles, and I dont think I need to stay clean for 6 months before starting again(for making good gains), I dont want to anyway...

[Swifto]

Set realistic goals when you cycle. Then dont come off to you reach them IMO.

[Pinnacle]

I like to do short cycles, and I dont think I need to stay clean for 6 months before starting again(for making good gains), I don't want to anyway...

Mental addiction to anabolics are a bitch.I'll admit, I'm addicted too.Read one of my newer posts in my sticky above.

How much do you consider 'Good gains" on one of your cycles?


~Pinnacle~

[vitor]

Mental addiction to anabolics are a bitch.I'll admit, I'm addicted too.Read one of my newer posts in my sticky above.

How much do you consider 'Good gains" on one of your cycles?


~Pinnacle~

I will be 24 years old in a couple of weeks. But I started using pretty early, and I have been training since I was 16. So I defently dont expect to make 15-20 pounds, on any of my future cycles. (Ime probaly over my genetic-limit.)

If I make 6-7 ibs of LBM on my next run, I will be a happy boy!!

I think I am a little addicted yes, I "think" about steroids and training all the time...

[Outlaw**]

time off sux.

[AleX-69]

do short cycles then : shorter time off.. for me it is really a lot easier to be off for lets say 6 weeks than 16-20 weeks.

I have something to look forward to all the time..

[marcus300]

do short cycles then : shorter time off.. for me it is really a lot easier to be off for lets say 6 weeks than 16-20 weeks.

I have something to look forward to all the time..

[Outlaw**]

my last one i was only on for 10 wks. I found out that apple cider vinegar reduces your cholesterol. It has to be the organic vinegar, but if you take some everyday it will reduce your cholesterol. Wonder if it would work to speed up your recovery also?

[Pinnacle]

do short cycles then : shorter time off.. for me it is really a lot easier to be off for lets say 6 weeks than 16-20 weeks.

I have something to look forward to all the time..

Not neccesarily true at all.You'll still acquire a tolerance running drugs for 6 weeks just the same as you would for 10-12.So anyone reading this,take heed to that.You still need quite alot of time off in between cycles to really reap the rewards of anabolics.If you want a measly 4-5 pounds per cycle.The run your cycles close together.In the process you'll have to run ultra high doses to achieve that.If that's your thing,then by all means run short,high dose(expensive as all hell) cycles with low down time in between.Yep......you'll be begging for HRT by the time you are 28 yrs old,as vitor is currently on that track as wee speak.Many other impateint young guys will be fuking themselves up this board too.The thing on this board is to do as many cycles per year as possible and hopefully gain as much as possible in the process.Those touting those ideals/beliefs on this board don't tell you the major health issues you can face short term/long term........


~Pinnacle~

[AleX-69]

hey pin i appreciate your input, but if blood levels are ok, you are feeling right isnt it ok to go back on?

I mean if you do a 28day cycle (i.e. short cycle) + pct and stay off 6-8 weeks, that would be sufficient in my - and my docs - book (assuming blood work is ok). Moreover i don't throw higher and higher doses of AAS at me... i keep dosages sane...

If you feel diffrent plz let me know.

Regards

AleX

[Pinnacle]

hey pin i appreciate your input, but if blood levels are ok, you are feeling right isnt it ok to go back on?

I mean if you do a 28day cycle (i.e. short cycle) + pct and stay off 6-8 weeks, that would be sufficient in my - and my docs - book (assuming blood work is ok). Moreover i don't throw higher and higher doses of AAS at me... i keep dosages sane...

If you feel diffrent plz let me know.

Regards

AleX

I'm not talking about blood levels and such.I'm talking about a tolerance every gets to running anabolics.If you run cycles to close together,your results will suffer.

A 30 days cycle isn't any different thatn a 60 day cycle.Your recovery isn't lessened by a short time on.Nor will your tolerance drop waiting such a short time either.

~Pinnacle~

[vitor]

Pinnacle- Can I ask you how often you cycle steroids?
(not counting the cruise ofcourse)

I totally belive recovery will be faster off a short cycle than a longer one. Part of the reasen could be that only the hypotalamus gets totally inhibited after about 30 days, while the Pituitary isnt totally. The Pituitary could even sensitized, and will therefor produce much more LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex-hormones it senses, wihch makes for a rapit recovery.

My natty test was 1350ng 4 weeks after my last cycle now, A little higher than before I started. This is thrue, no BS.

[vitor]

Pinnacle- Can I ask you how often you cycle steroids?
(not counting the cruise ofcourse)

I totally belive recovery will be faster off a short cycle than a longer one. Part of the reasen could be that only the hypotalamus gets totally inhibited after about 30 days, while the Pituitary isnt totally. The Pituitary could even sensitized, and will therefor produce much more LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex-hormones it senses, wihch makes for a rapit recovery.

My natty test was 1350ng 4 weeks after my last cycle now, A little higher than before I started. This is thrue, no BS.

[vitor]

Pinnacle- Can I ask you how often you cycle steroids?
(not counting the cruise ofcourse)

I totally belive recovery will be faster off a short cycle than a longer one. Part of the reasen could be that only the hypotalamus gets totally inhibited after about 30 days, while the Pituitary isnt totally. The Pituitary could even sensitized, and will therefor produce much more LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex-hormones it senses, wihch makes for a rapit recovery.

My natty test was 1350ng 4 weeks after my last cycle now, A little higher than before I started. This is thrue, no BS.

[AleX-69]

I'm not talking about blood levels and such.I'm talking about a tolerance every gets to running anabolics.If you run cycles to close together,your results will suffer.

A 30 days cycle isn't any different thatn a 60 day cycle.Your recovery isn't lessened by a short time on.Nor will your tolerance drop waiting such a short time either.

~Pinnacle~

good point... i would really like to see a study of some sort which supports this view.
I found one myself, but only short term tolerances where discussed there (i.e. over a one day period).. Pretty interesting nonetheless.

On the other hand i believe i have gotten more out of my last cycles than my first ones, dispite the fact i didn't change dosages. This may have to do with nutrition and a further improved training regimen, but for me it simply does not FEEL like i have developed a tolerance to steroids already (maybe i am just lucky )... So in conclusion i would be glad if you could hint me to a study which supports your view and / or go a little bit more into detail about steroid tolerances alltoghether ( i read idle thoughts already ). Really sparked my interest there Pin.

Regards

AleX

[Swifto]

Not neccesarily true at all.You'll still acquire a tolerance running drugs for 6 weeks just the same as you would for 10-12.So anyone reading this,take heed to that.You still need quite alot of time off in between cycles to really reap the rewards of anabolics.If you want a measly 4-5 pounds per cycle.The run your cycles close together.In the process you'll have to run ultra high doses to achieve that.If that's your thing,then by all means run short,high dose(expensive as all hell) cycles with low down time in between.Yep......you'll be begging for HRT by the time you are 28 yrs old,as vitor is currently on that track as wee speak.Many other impateint young guys will be fuking themselves up this board too.The thing on this board is to do as many cycles per year as possible and hopefully gain as much as possible in the process.Those touting those ideals/beliefs on this board don't tell you the major health issues you can face short term/long term........


~Pinnacle~

You talking about up-regulation/down-regulation of the AR Pinn?

[AleX-69]

Even though i am not pin i don't belive he is talking about AR up/down regulation.

this plays a role during a cycle, and AR downregulation may be a reason why some people don't gain anymore in later stages of a cycle.
AR downregulation should have no permanent effect on someone, as receptors are beeing reproduced in a relative short time span afaik.

[marcus300]

I'm not talking about blood levels and such.I'm talking about a tolerance every gets to running anabolics.If you run cycles to close together,your results will suffer.

A 30 days cycle isn't any different thatn a 60 day cycle.Your recovery isn't lessened by a short time on.Nor will your tolerance drop waiting such a short time either.

~Pinnacle~

I don't totally agree here with you pinn,

In my honest opinion i think short cycles as a whole are alot better for tolerance,blood levels,recovery and in many cases gains,

Our body's to build up a tolerance to anything we use over time, things like pain killers, alcohol,sleepers the list goes on and there is nothing different with AAS, i totally agree with this, but i feel the shorter time your on a cycle the body's doesn't build up as much as a tolorance to it as doing long cycles for weeks on end,

The average person would not build up a tolerance as much as the longer cycles because his build up would only be for 30 days or so, now for the longer cycles because the tolerance builds up the gains stop coming this is a vital sign, so when he does come off gear recovery is even harder and maintaining the muscle is even harder still, only options are increased dosages when they do go back on and believe me they do go back on soon cause they cant stand how they feel and the backwards steps they are making, so higher dosages are needed cause the tolerance is high, increased dosages = increased sides effects and gains yet again are harder to obtain because of the so called tolerance,

On the other side the shorter the period you on cycle the less the body's builds up a tolerance, so when you do fully recover (cause you still have to fully recover even on short cycles) the tolerance isn't anything like being on for long periods and you can still gain with the same dose, its how the body works take an example of someone who drinks alcohol the guy drinking for 15-20 weeks is going to have a different tolerance to the guy drinking for 30 days when they stop,

I do understand that if you do run short cycles very closely together then yes tolerance will build up but with short cycles you do need to full recover and have BW done and even before you start another cycle you must have good time off, this comes in the way of priming the body for the next cycle this would be adequate time for the little tolerance what you have built up to go and the prime is a tool what must be used for any short cycle to be very effective, short cycles go beyond just AAS its about placing the correct things in place for growth and taking advantage of the environment your creating, priming,food,intense training and 24hrs commitment,

I haven't got any professional studies on this but i do have my personally studies what ive done and with many Bodybuilders, i have close to 20 studies now from start to finish of BB's who have ran shorter cycles and am not just talking about one round of short cycling some are in their 4th-6th short cycles and they are more or less all still gaining far better for when they did longer cycles, not everybody is the same some need to run slightly longer short cycles to 6 weeks some need to run shorter cycles like under 30 days but more or less they all have good time off to recover which is alot faster than longer cycles without doubt and after recovery they all prime the body for afew weeks, they can cope with being off cycle because recovery is quicker so the maintenance is alot easier,

I do know you did have problems with your short cycle with BW levels, but i have to say afew of my BB's did aswell running the same amounts as you did and with the same compounds, BW is harder to bring back with certain heavier compounds, this is what some of the studies have come back with so ive adjusted to this and now recovery is easier because we know what causes the little problems, i also must thank you for your detailed report for my studies it help me a great deal to solve this problem or make it run better,

Your correct, running short cycles very closely together will build up the tolerance but the tolerance is not built up that much because of the length of time you on it, but you shouldn't be running them closer together because recovery takes time and the prime takes weeks, if this is done correctly then there will be no problems about tolerance,

Cant you just tell i like short cycles,

not everybody is the same but they are worth trying sometime in the BB's life to see how he responds, also like to state i haven't said anything about how heavy the short cycles are because am taking as a whole heavy burst, light, medium, short cycles am taking about them all.

[AleX-69]

On the other side the shorter the period you on cycle the less the body's builds up a tolerance, so when you do fully recover (cause you still have to fully recover even on short cycles) the tolerance isn't anything like being on for long periods and you can still gain with the same dose, its how the body works take an example of someone who drinks alcohol the guy drinking for 15-20 weeks is going to have a different tolerance to the guy drinking for 30 days when they stop,

thanks marcus for jumping in and taking so much time to write all this...

your conclusions about tolerances really seem logical to me.. In fact running short cycles with appropiate off time in between might be the reason why i still make good gains without having to up my doses...

But what really interest me the most are the underlying scientific facts why and how tolerances develop in the first place.

[marcus300]

thanks marcus for jumping in and taking so much time to write all this...

your conclusions about tolerances really seem logical to me.. In fact running short cycles with appropiate off time in between might be the reason why i still make good gains without having to up my doses...

But what really interest me the most are the underlying scientific facts why and how tolerances develop in the first place.

Thanks Alex-69,
am not saying in all cases!! but the majority it doesnt build up like long cycles would do, ive got to many reports saying the opposite, and your an example of this and your comment adds to this,

Its how the body is, it changes with time no matter what you put inside it, it adjusts itself,more and more is needed to get the same results or even maintain them, you become tolerant to it, suppose its the body's way to protect life,

If you think about it, it does look so logical not to run long cycles, but to find the right length of cycle to suit your own body for it to respond

[AleX-69]

If you think about it, it does look so logical not to run long cycles, but to find the right length of cycle to suit your own body for it to respond

[marcus300]

thanks marcus for jumping in and taking so much time to write all this...

your conclusions about tolerances really seem logical to me.. In fact running short cycles with appropiate off time in between might be the reason why i still make good gains without having to up my doses...
But what really interest me the most are the underlying scientific facts why and how tolerances develop in the first place.

Exactly, this is what am saying