This might be stupid, but Im gonna go out on a limb here. When people ask me about winny the first thing I say is I hate it, it kills my joints. The c&k 's 25mgs a day made me weaker cause my joints hurt to much to lift hard. I took them the last 3 or 4 weeks of a test cycle over a year and a half ago. It was the only time I ever tried winny. Is it safe to say that if one brand kills your joints another brand is? I ask cause my buddy just gave me a bunch. Has anyone ever had one brand kill your joints and another brand be perfectly fine? Just wondering if it was a crap shoot or gaurenteed pain?