Death of the NPT

[Kärnfysikern]

Not good
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Nort..._Path_999.html

If japan builds nukes the NPT will become a joke and that is the only damn thing we have to controll nations from getting nukes :/

Hope the japanese people see the madness in this and hang any politician that wants to build nukes.

[Logan13]

Not good
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Nort..._Path_999.html

If japan builds nukes the NPT will become a joke and that is the only damn thing we have to controll nations from getting nukes :/

Hope the japanese people see the madness in this and hang any politician that wants to build nukes.

wow, your bias is very evident. The fukking Iranians want nukes, Johan says that's OK, they have not proven that they will use this power aggressively. But when the Japanese want it in order to keep the crazy north koreans (who already have nukes) at bay it becomes a madness. Come on Johan, at least try to be fair and balanced........the NPT is already a joke. When the north koreans and Iranians are allowed to develop this technology without reprocussions, all of the 3rd world countries that have the capital will now be trying to get this technology as well. Talks do not trump the individual countries' motivation for aquiring nuclear capability. This is why the "they just need to talk to them" arguement is pure bullshiit. Welcome to the real world sir!

[Kärnfysikern]

Obviously your reading comprehension isnt all that good because anyone with half a brain would have noticed I am very much opposed to Iran developing nuclear weapons, but I am protecting there right to develop nuclear power. If you dont understand the difference its your problem not mine.

Thats what the NPT is all about, sharing of nuclear technology betwen nations that have agreed not to develop weapons.

Iran isnt allowed to develop any weapons technology, we have no evidence they are trying to develop weapons. NOTHING proves they are breaching the NPT. If we want to have a treaty that works we also have to enforce it by facts, not superstition and scaremongering by a president that think he have jesus blessing and loudmouths that thinks there oppinion weights more than facts and proof.

So cut the bullshit and stop putting words in my mouth.

I guess your fine with armed robbery since you dont want to prohibit criminals from getting ahold of guns

[Kärnfysikern]

by the way syria and south africa wasnt convinced to stop with there nuclear weapons programs by bombs and tropps. They where TALKED out of it.

[Logan13]

Obviously your reading comprehension isnt all that good because anyone with half a brain would have noticed I am very much opposed to Iran developing nuclear weapons, but I am protecting there right to develop nuclear power. If you dont understand the difference its your problem not mine.

Thats what the NPT is all about, sharing of nuclear technology betwen nations that have agreed not to develop weapons.

Iran isnt allowed to develop any weapons technology, we have no evidence they are trying to develop weapons. NOTHING proves they are breaching the NPT. If we want to have a treaty that works we also have to enforce it by facts, not superstition and scaremongering by a president that think he have jesus blessing and loudmouths that thinks there oppinion weights more than facts and proof.

So cut the bullshit and stop putting words in my mouth.

I guess your fine with armed robbery since you dont to prohibit criminals from getting ahold of guns

Obviously your reading comprehension isnt all that good because anyone with half a brain would have noticed I am very much opposed to Iran developing nuclear weapons, but I am protecting there right to develop nuclear power. If you dont understand the difference its your problem not mine.
Sure johan, you are the one putting faith in what the Iranian's promise and yet I am the one with half a brain? Silly, very silly! Pure spin! "Iran isn't allowed to develop any weapons", it may be a few years, but I Will be posting your statement of fantasy when it occurs. At least the Japanese are straight-forward about their pursuits. Maybe if the Japanese would have worded it like "we just want this technology for energy" than you would be duped enough to be OK with it than........... It's Ok Johan, you are entitled to be on the wrong side of history if that's what you want. You keep siding with the N.koreans, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, etc.. I'll put my trust in the Israelis, Japanese, and the English thank you very much!

[Logan13]

by the way syria and south africa wasnt convinced to stop with there nuclear weapons programs by bombs and tropps. They where TALKED out of it.

that's not completely the truth, now is it Johan. These two countries were given economic incentives not to push further, we call that being bought off where I come from. I guess the ends justify the means in Sweden....I for one am not in the habit of giving into blackmail, it sets a bad example for everyother 3rd world country who wants their piece of the pie as well. We should let them know that good 'ole sweden is ready to put their money where their mouth is.........

[Kärnfysikern]

Sure johan, you are the one putting faith in what the Iranian's promise and yet I am the one with half a brain? Silly, very silly! Pure spin! "Iran isn't allowed to develop any weapons",

My only faith is in proof. If there is no proof there is no argument and everything is speculation. If there isnt enough proof to convince the experst that have been and inspected the installations then I am surely not qualified to claim otherwise and you are even less qualified to do so.

I dont care one bit about what Iran promise, what I care about is the fact that they have signed the NPT and that they allow inspections.

But then again we all know it just takes a crocked president, a prime minister and some false info to trick people into wars because who needs proofs when president bush has jesus blessing. Its so easy to fool gullible people that belive in propaganda over facts. Iraq anyone You se some of us acctualy want facts and proof, we dont support war mongering because fox news say so.

it may be a few years, but I Will be posting your statement of fantasy when it occurs. At least the Japanese are straight-forward about their pursuits. Maybe if the Japanese would have worded it like "we just want this technology for energy" than you would be duped enough to be OK with it than........... It's Ok Johan, you are entitled to be on the wrong side of history if that's what you want. You keep siding with the N.koreans, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, etc.. I'll put my trust in the Israelis, Japanese, and the English thank you very much!

Once again twisting my words, I am not siding with north korea, iran or any other morons with a power high out there. I am siding with the NPT and I care for the survival of that treaty. The fact that america is opening up discussions about nuclear technology trade with india is a hard enough blow against the NPT. If japan builds nukes its dead. What is there then to prevent iran and other idiots to build weapons if the IAEA lose all its authority?

You obviously fail to recognise what blow that would be to world security.

Japan will not increase its security by obtaining nukes, they are already under a nuclear umbrella provided by your country. If they build nukes its just as a cock extender and it will do nothing to improve safety while destroying one of the most important tools to ensure world safety.

[Kärnfysikern]

that's not completely the truth, now is it Johan. These two countries were given economic incentives not to push further, we call that being bought off where I come from. I guess the ends justify the means in Sweden....I for one am not in the habit of giving into blackmail, it sets a bad example for everyother 3rd world country who wants their piece of the pie as well. We should let them know that good 'ole sweden is ready to put their money where their mouth is.........

Sure as hell the end justifies the means if the option is a bloody and unnessecary war.

But then again dollars is worth more than lifes of the soliders that acctualy have to do the dirty work you are lusting and craving.

You se it doesnt matter if you "give in to blackmail" or not, because your not the one that is going to do the killing and dying....

[Phreak101]

You both make very good points, but theoretically IMO Johan is correct. The US doesnt have a leg to stand on with it's accusations of Iran simply because of the shitstorm that Iraq has turned into. The world will not accept a SECOND pre-emptive move into a country without a provocation/proof of some sort by Iran.

N Korea has made themselves evident as a threat, and I would imagine Japan/South Korea/China have a lot more to worry about at the present time than the U.S. does regardign Iran.

The two situations are just not comparable.

[Logan13]

You both make very good points, but theoretically IMO Johan is correct. The US doesnt have a leg to stand on with it's accusations of Iran simply because of the shitstorm that Iraq has turned into. The world will not accept a SECOND pre-emptive move into a country without a provocation/proof of some sort by Iran.

N Korea has made themselves evident as a threat, and I would imagine Japan/South Korea/China have a lot more to worry about at the present time than the U.S. does regardign Iran.

The two situations are just not comparable.

I have never called for an all-out invasion of Iran. I back a internal special forces strike. History will play itself out, when it does we can all log back on, I'll bend over and everyone can start kissing my ass after it is proven that I am right.......

[Logan13]

Sure as hell the end justifies the means if the option is a bloody and unnessecary war.

But then again dollars is worth more than lifes of the soliders that acctualy have to do the dirty work you are lusting and craving.

You se it doesnt matter if you "give in to blackmail" or not, because your not the one that is going to do the killing and dying....

When your country starts coughing up the hundreds of millions to pay off these blackmailers, than and only than are you allowed an opinion on this. Stop trying to spend everyone else's money..........

[gixxerboy1]

When your country starts coughing up the hundreds of millions to pay off these blackmailers, than and only than are you allowed an opinion on this. Stop trying to spend everyone else's money..........

Sometimes paying them off is cheaper then war. How many billions has the Iraq war cost?

[Phreak101]

I have never called for an all-out invasion of Iran. I back a internal special forces strike. History will play itself out, when it does we can all log back on, I'll bend over and everyone can start kissing my ass after it is proven that I am right.......

I second that idea, but it is still a strike.

[Kärnfysikern]

When your country starts coughing up the hundreds of millions to pay off these blackmailers, than and only than are you allowed an opinion on this. Stop trying to spend everyone else's money..........

Your oppinion about a attack is only valid if you sign up for the armed forces. Stop trying to waste other peoples lives......

[Kärnfysikern]

I have never called for an all-out invasion of Iran. I back a internal special forces strike. History will play itself out, when it does we can all log back on, I'll bend over and everyone can start kissing my ass after it is proven that I am right.......

I am not opposed to such a idea, but the problem is it would be a HUGE operation. Iran has several hundred instalations and some of them are burried deep underground, they can not be targeted from the air and I bet they are extremely well guarded.

I wonder if it would be remotely possible to pull off such a strike?

[Logan13]

Your oppinion about a attack is only valid if you sign up for the armed forces. Stop trying to waste other peoples lives......

5 years in, you pansy.....next question.......

[Kärnfysikern]

5 years in, you pansy.....next question.......

I seem to remeber you saying you have not served when bouncer asked the same question from you like a year ago? Or was that to roidattack maby?

[Agrajaz]

Originally Posted by Logan13
I have never called for an all-out invasion of Iran. I back a internal special forces strike
TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE..... **** YEAH!!!!

[Kärnfysikern]

I wonder aswell, after a strike. What will the world do in 5 years when the nuclear program is running again in Iran? They have the know how now for the entire fuel cycle. No ammount of bombs can eradicate that.

So destroying it by force now would just mean they would try again and then in much more secrecy since they will know the NPT is a joke and they certainly wont allow any inspections as they do now.

[Logan13]

I wonder aswell, after a strike. What will the world do in 5 years when the nuclear program is running again in Iran? They have the know how now for the entire fuel cycle. No ammount of bombs can eradicate that.

So destroying it by force now would just mean they would try again and then in much more secrecy since they will know the NPT is a joke and they certainly wont allow any inspections as they do now.

I honestly believe that after a country gets to where Iran is now with their program, there really is no way to stop them outside of using force. The key is to stop this before it goes too far, which the world court of opinion will not do....

[Logan13]

I seem to remeber you saying you have not served when bouncer asked the same question from you like a year ago? Or was that to roidattack maby?

I am a reservist, dad retired from army and my brother is still in.

[Logan13]

My only faith is in proof. If there is no proof there is no argument and everything is speculation. If there isnt enough proof to convince the experst that have been and inspected the installations then I am surely not qualified to claim otherwise and you are even less qualified to do so.

I dont care one bit about what Iran promise, what I care about is the fact that they have signed the NPT and that they allow inspections.

But then again we all know it just takes a crocked president, a prime minister and some false info to trick people into wars because who needs proofs when president bush has jesus blessing. Its so easy to fool gullible people that belive in propaganda over facts. Iraq anyone You se some of us acctualy want facts and proof, we dont support war mongering because fox news say so.



Once again twisting my words, I am not siding with north korea, iran or any other morons with a power high out there. I am siding with the NPT and I care for the survival of that treaty. The fact that america is opening up discussions about nuclear technology trade with india is a hard enough blow against the NPT. If japan builds nukes its dead. What is there then to prevent iran and other idiots to build weapons if the IAEA lose all its authority?

You obviously fail to recognise what blow that would be to world security.

Japan will not increase its security by obtaining nukes, they are already under a nuclear umbrella provided by your country. If they build nukes its just as a cock extender and it will do nothing to improve safety while destroying one of the most important tools to ensure world safety.

That's very telling about you, Johan. I believed that you didn't have any balls, but to need an extender too......damn! But seriously, Why do you think the the IAEA has ANY credibility after the whole "kicked out of Iraq" saga that went on for years. Perhaps if they did have some backing by the UN, Iraq would not have needed to be attacked. The IAEA has about as much authority as a blind and crippled hall monitor.

[Kärnfysikern]

I honestly believe that after a country gets to where Iran is now with their program, there really is no way to stop them outside of using force. The key is to stop this before it goes too far, which the world court of opinion will not do....

I guess there is not much more we can do than to agree to disagree on the severity of the situation.

That's very telling about you, Johan. I believed that you didn't have any balls, but to need an extender too......damn! But seriously, Why do you think the the IAEA has ANY credibility after the whole "kicked out of Iraq" saga that went on for years. Perhaps if they did have some backing by the UN, Iraq would not have needed to be attacked. The IAEA has about as much authority as a blind and crippled hall monitor.

Nah I have plenty enough and a bit to spare

Maby it isnt the authority its suposes to be. But any country today that wants nuclear power does sign the NPT and allows inspections so the majority of the world seems to respect it. It would be a much worse situation if everyone did there own thing without letting the world know what they are doing.
As with the rest of the UN I belive the IAEA should be given alot more power and countries like india, pakistan and israel that hasnt signed the npt should be put under alot more pressure. Either it should be enforced or it should be abandoned. Doing things half asses never works.

I am a reservist, dad retired from army and my brother is still in.

My sincere apologies then

[RA]

I seem to remeber you saying you have not served when bouncer asked the same question from you like a year ago? Or was that to roidattack maby?

That was me and has no bearing on the argument. Should you not be allowed to make any decisions because you havent served?

[Kärnfysikern]

That was me and has no bearing on the argument. Should you not be allowed to make any decisions because you havent served?

No I am just playing the "your oppinion isnt worth anything unless you have done this and that" game with logan I dont care myself if someone has served or anything like that.

I have never even held a firearm, except my dads hunting rifle.
I didnt have to do the mandatory 1 year service we have in sweden. Or well it isnt exactly mandatory nowdays since just about everyone that doesnt want to do it can skip it.

[Logan13]

Maby it isnt the authority its suposes to be. But any country today that wants nuclear power does sign the NPT and allows inspections so the majority of the world seems to respect it. It would be a much worse situation if everyone did there own thing without letting the world know what they are doing.
As with the rest of the UN I belive the IAEA should be given alot more power and countries like india, pakistan and israel that hasnt signed the npt should be put under alot more pressure. Either it should be enforced or it should be abandoned. Doing things half asses never works.

I want the IAEA to have the power, but dozens and dozens of sanctions from the UN will do nothing, again. The IAEA is just fine, it is the Security Counsel that is at fault in regards to the lack of follow-up and enforcement. The Security counsel is honestly a joke, I do not want it to be, but it is nonetheless...and every dictator run country knows this as well.