Best kickstart? Dbol or Tren?

[liftin4life]

I know Dbol is the tried and true of inj. cycle kickstarts, but I don't want anything that aromatizes too much. Also, I've heard Tren is simply amazing. So I was thinking of doing 50-75mg EOD of Tren along with my Test/EQ cycle.

I can only do this for 8 weeks as I have to see the Dr. again for bloodwork regarding my HRT (testosterone). I may have 10, but probably 8.

Proposed cycle of 8 weeks:

Tren Ace/Hex: EOD 50-75mg weeks 1-4
EQ: 400mg/wk (frontload 800mg wk 1)
Test Enth: 400mg/wk
Aromasin or Letro...not sure yet.

PCT: Nolvadex. (my natural test is shut down permanently due to a medical condition so clomid/HCG is irrelevant)

[graeme87]

Firstly test E and EQ are both long ester compounds so running them for 8weeks will be a waste of time as you will be stopping the cycle just as they start to kick in. they need to be run for at least 12 weeks 14 imo to get the full effect. Some say you can get away with running for 10 weeks but not 8 weeks. No way it’s a waste of time and gear.

I’m guessing you are a newbie? If so you are not ready for tren. Tren is a very strong compound for advanced users not for newbies.

Post you stats i.e. age, height, weight, training and cycle experience and we will be able to help you a lot more.

Also what do you want to achieve with this cycle? Are you looking for a bulking or cutting cycle?

[graeme87]

Also you said you natural test is permanently shut down? Are you on HRT in that case?

[liftin4life]

Also you said you natural test is permanently shut down? Are you on HRT in that case?

I have quite a bit of knowledge about diet/training, HPTA, steroids, PCT...etc. However, my knowledge is limited with Tren and Dbol. Bulking is the goal. 20-30lbs is about right from a cycle like this (for 10-12wks). So I'm not sure if I could frontload and pull it off in 8wks by doing that or not. I've not played with frontloading as of yet.

Yes, my test is naturally 51ng/dl for the MORNING reading where it's supposed to be higher. I have a pituitary tumor. I'm on permanent testosterone replacement for the rest of my life so my HPTA is f*cked. My LH and FSH are both 1.5 and 1.4 on a 1.5--18 scale. So...lol PCT for keeping gains isn't that big of a deal. I'm on 125mg Test E/Wk and that puts me in the high 700's.

I JUST found out about the tumor a little under 3 months ago. The Dr. said it's been affecting me for 5 or 6 years. I don't know how I gained any size or strength or got lean...and she was confused also. I just got down to 7% fat a few months ago at 135lbs after dropping down from 176. Always gained too much fat with muscle and lost too much muscle with fat in the past. Now I know why! Recently...I've just put on 33lbs in 2 1/2 months because my body went from NO test to normal. A 16-fold increase in my situation. 50--->almost 800ng/dl. I'm waiting until my gains stabilize before I mess with this. In fact, I may wait awhile since I've been hindered for so long. I haven't made up my mind. But this is the cycle I'm planning when the gains DO slow and my body stabilizes from gaining so quickly.

Age: 25
Lifting: 7 yrs (apparently hindered by horribly low test though)
Currently 168lbs at 9-10% at 5' 6.5"
Waist: 30"
Wrist: 6.5"
Neck: 16"
Chest: 44 3/4"
Arms: 15 1/4"
Forearms: 13"
Quads: 25"
Calves: 15.5"

[D-Money]

I know Dbol is the tried and true of inj. cycle kickstarts, but I don't want anything that aromatizes too much. Also, I've heard Tren is simply amazing. So I was thinking of doing 50-75mg EOD of Tren along with my Test/EQ cycle.

I can only do this for 8 weeks as I have to see the Dr. again for bloodwork regarding my HRT (testosterone). I may have 10, but probably 8.

Proposed cycle of 8 weeks:

Tren Ace/Hex: EOD 50-75mg weeks 1-4
EQ: 400mg/wk (frontload 800mg wk 1)
Test Enth: 400mg/wk
Aromasin or Letro...not sure yet.

PCT: Nolvadex. (my natural test is shut down permanently due to a medical condition so clomid/HCG is irrelevant)

Its amazing how we take a healthy hpta for granted. I'm glad you are still able to make gains despite you medical situation. In my opinion, d-bol would be the better choice to jump start gains, since bulking is your goal. Just take an anti-estrogen, If your worried about bloat, I would go with letro.

[liftin4life]

[/B]

Its amazing how we take a healthy hpta for granted. I'm glad you are still able to make gains despite you medical situation. In my opinion, d-bol would be the better choice to jump start gains, since bulking is your goal. Just take an anti-estrogen, If your worried about bloat, I would go with letro.

I was REALLY depressed when I found out about it. I was shocked at how me...being so health conscious...could have this happen to ME. Yeah..I have to give myself a shot weekly for the rest of my life. I can't say it's a horrible thing...better than diabetic insulin shots every day. But still...yeah...it's upsetting to an extent...that I HAVE to take it. I'm trying to see the positive side of this being that....I can make gains on a stack mostly legally and my HPTA doesn't have to recover...so with a SERM...I should keep almost all of my gains each time. That being said, I should be able to get as big as I want with diet/training on par.

Okay...so Letro over Nolva? Any suggestions for what to take after I drop it back down to TRT dosages? An AI during and a SERM after? or vice versa?

[Johny-too-small]

At 8 weeks, I would run:

1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/ed
1-8: Test Prop @ 75 mg/ed
Letro .25/ed for bloat (prime your blood levels by taking letro 2 weeks per-cycle)

I agree that EQ and Enan would be worthless to run for only eight weeks.

[liftin4life]

At 8 weeks, I would run:

1-4: Dbol @ 30 mg/ed
1-8: Test Prop @ 75 mg/ed
Letro .25/ed for bloat (prime your blood levels by taking letro 2 weeks per-cycle)

I agree that EQ and Enan would be worthless to run for only eight weeks.

I'm staying on at least the 125mg Test E that I'm supposed to be taking from the Dr. So I guess I could just do 75mg Prop EOD in that case?

I respond extremely well to EQ though...I'd hate to leave it out. Why would a frontload not make it As IF I took it for 10-12 wks? It would have the same effective range right?

Also...I've never taken Dbol...I don't want to retain a lot of water. I'm sure the letro would stop some bloat...but can I swap it for tren? OR...could I do the Dbol, Tren, Test? I want a 3rd compound in there.

[Johny-too-small]

Answers in red..

I'm staying on at least the 125mg Test E that I'm supposed to be taking from the Dr. So I guess I could just do 75mg Prop EOD in that case?75 mg/eod is not enough, imo

I respond extremely well to EQ though...I'd hate to leave it out. Why would a frontload not make it As IF I took it for 10-12 wks? It would have the same effective range right? Not sure about this, I understand the frontload and think its a good idea, but I still think you need more time for the EQ to run to its potential. Bump.

Also...I've never taken Dbol...I don't want to retain a lot of water. I'm sure the letro would stop some bloat...but can I swap it for tren? OR...could I do the Dbol, Tren, Test? I want a 3rd compound in there.Yes, letro will help with bloat, or l-dex. Tren is very powerful, depending on the ester, you need to be careful as well.

[liftin4life]

Answers in red..

When people say "tren is powerful"...yeah it produces great results, but why the warning? Liver values? HPTA shutdown? My HPTA is ALREADY permanently shutdown so that is not a factor for me. Explain how this applies to ME?

Okay...people say run EQ 10-16 weeks. If 8 is all I have, wouldn't a frontload make it an 10-11wk equivalent? Bump for someone with more frontloading info?

[GHO5T]

Firstly test E and EQ are both long ester compounds so running them for 8weeks will be a waste of time as you will be stopping the cycle just as they start to kick in. they need to be run for at least 12 weeks 14 imo to get the full effect. Some say you can get away with running for 10 weeks but not 8 weeks. No way it’s a waste of time and gear.

I’m guessing you are a newbie? If so you are not ready for tren. Tren is a very strong compound for advanced users not for newbies.

Post you stats i.e. age, height, weight, training and cycle experience and we will be able to help you a lot more.

Also what do you want to achieve with this cycle? Are you looking for a bulking or cutting cycle?

IMO tren can be used by anyone, if its your first cycle or your 10th, if its your first just run it at a lower dosage say 50mg/ed and you can go higher and higher as you gain experience with the aas

i personally started tren at 50mg/ed at my first cycle and now im up to 150mg/ed my 3rd cycle

[LatinoPR]

Eq should run for 12 weeks @ 600mg for good results,i love cuz i get so vascular,i just love Eq.






LPR.

[liftin4life]

IMO tren can be used by anyone, if its your first cycle or your 10th, if its your first just run it at a lower dosage say 50mg/ed and you can go higher and higher as you gain experience with the aas

i personally started tren at 50mg/ed at my first cycle and now im up to 150mg/ed my 3rd cycle

Awesome. Thanks for the info. Yeah...I don't know what this talk is about "advanced" and "newbie" roids. Education determines what you should and should not do. Give me some info about it so I can make my OWN informed decision instead of assuming I'm a "newbie". Can I do 50mg ED? What about 75mg EOD...would I see anything with that?

[graeme87]

I’m sorry to hear about your medical condition bro.

Newbies are advised to stay away from tren because they do not NEED it to make gains. There is no need to use stronger compounds when you can make gains from the weaker compounds.

What I mean is you can make good gains from say a test only cycle as a newbie but not so much as an advanced user. The more cycles you do the higher dosages and stronger gear you require to keep making gains so if you are starting off with tren.

That is really the only reason you are advised to stay away from tren until you ahev a few cycles under your belt. If you want to take it by all means go for it, it won’t do you anymore harm than it does to more advanced users.

The bellow cycle will give you good gains.

Week 1-8/10 test prop 75 ED (along with you 125mg of test E)
Week 1-4/6 dbol 50mg ED
Week 1-8/10 nolva 10/20mg ED

If you can run the test prop for 12 weeks that is even better.

You can add tren ace to that cycle if you like but I think you will gain well off of the test prob + dbol. If you do decide to add tren to it don’t go over 75mg ED.

[GHO5T]

Awesome. Thanks for the info. Yeah...I don't know what this talk is about "advanced" and "newbie" roids. Education determines what you should and should not do. Give me some info about it so I can make my OWN informed decision instead of assuming I'm a "newbie". Can I do 50mg ED? What about 75mg EOD...would I see anything with that?

IMO 50mg/ed is a good starting point bro, ed injects will keep blood levels stable and reduce sides, i would start at 50mg/ed and see how you react to the aas, if its good no sides, you can then up the dose to 75mg/ed and so on

good luck