Newbie Deca,Sust,dbol cycle need some help

[t_machine7]

Hello everyone...yes im a newbie...but an educated one lol. Im 6'0''-6'1'' 175lbs Ive been lifting for about 5 years...3-4 hardcore. I dont compete. Ive used about every supplement possible...made gains..but they were moderate. Im almost 19. Yes I realize its young, but I have lifted for a while, supplemented and Im like 6'1''!! lol. Also, I put up decent amounts in the gym. I may not be fully maxed out as far as my natural ability, but I am ready to take the chance...and lift harder, gear up and get to the next level. Im doing a 300-400mg Deca, 500mg sustanon, 25-30mg Dbol (4weeks) and the total is 8weeks...followed by some Nolvadex (not sure when to do them), and I have 2-5000IU of HCG. Please gimme some input. On the PCT...what about Proviron? Thanks guys...lol I hope this thread doesnt get butchered lol...I know how that works. ~t_machine7

[ottomaddox]

Too young almost 19, too small. What's the hurry, why don't you let that body mature first. Not enough research on cycle lengths, try again. I'm just being honest and I know others will agree too. I hope you haven't started anything yet? Your body still has plenty of natural growth ahead. I wouldn't consider using steroids until 23 to 25 years old.

P.S.I don't care about your friend that did a cycle with no pct and kept all his gains.

By the way, welcome to the board.

This is what I wrote on your other thread with the same name.

[t_machine7]

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, 19 may be a little young. Small lol..bodyweight wise yes im only 175-180lbs, height no. Ive been lifting for a while and have not hit a growth spurt for a while either. Im VERY lean and have reached a plateau on my exercises...Im supplementing, getting sleep, eating like a ton, and switched up my routines. The cycle I was considering is actually 12-14 weeks including the PCT. I realize your concern, and I can appreciate it. Lol, unfortunately...I still want to go forth bro. I may get minor gains before I max out my potential, but I have alot of trouble gaining weight beyond this point and going up in weight. I just want to do the cycle right and follow proper PCT to get my natural test started back up and keep most gains. I have a legit source(which I wont go there) and the order is on the way. If your willing, lemme know the best route...lol besides not doing it. Thanks

~t_machine7

[the juggler]

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, 19 may be a little young. Small lol..bodyweight wise yes im only 175-180lbs, height no. Ive been lifting for a while and have not hit a growth spurt for a while either. Im VERY lean and have reached a plateau on my exercises...Im supplementing, getting sleep, eating like a ton, and switched up my routines. The cycle I was considering is actually 12-14 weeks including the PCT. I realize your concern, and I can appreciate it. Lol, unfortunately...I still want to go forth bro. I may get minor gains before I max out my potential, but I have alot of trouble gaining weight beyond this point and going up in weight. I just want to do the cycle right and follow proper PCT to get my natural test started back up and keep most gains. I have a legit source(which I wont go there) and the order is on the way. If your willing, lemme know the best route...lol besides not doing it. Thanks

~t_machine7

plain and simple, you aren't dietting well enough. if you use gear, and your diet still sucks, you wont keep any gains at all.

IT's all about diet.

i gained approximately 88lbs naturally before using gear.

NOBODY is naturally maxed out at 175-180lbs..

But if you're totally obsesed with the idea of wasting money and undergoing possible health-changes, be my guest to search this forum and gather the information for your cycle.

[the juggler]

previous post should not be considered flaming, just advice.. Waste of money in my oppinon.

[ottomaddox]

Ditto here. I don't think the maturity level is there yet. Too bad........

previous post should not be considered flaming, just advice.. Waste of money in my oppinon.

otto out.

[t_machine7]

Yeah, I expected to get these responses, and I respect your input...its probably accurate. However, I am eating good and ALOT. I realize if I spend another 2 years in the gym I can make some more gains...maybe 15-20lbs. Or...gear up and get them gaines with an increased diet in 8-12 weeks. Do you know where im coming from? I started lifting hard when I was only 120...In 2-2 1/2 years Im up to 180 right now (fluctuates because I cardio alot to). yea its not big, but my body comp is great. Im looking some androgenic effects and I wanna cycle right, not the normal as you described..."cycled and kept all the gains w/ no PCT."

[testisbest]

then post what you ate yesterday.

[t_machine7]

BTW... Im asking directly because I read 10000 different things people do as far as start times for PCT ...combos...etc. I hear people that frontload Hcg at the end of cycle at like 5000IU...then I hear thats bad ..more estrogen conversion. Then I hear all u need is like 500IU's every other day...the list goes on ...you get the point. Also I have Nolvadex to complement it. I just want it to be right for me..my personalized cycle, ya know.

[the juggler]

Yeah, I expected to get these responses, and I respect your input...its probably accurate. However, I am eating good and ALOT. I realize if I spend another 2 years in the gym I can make some more gains...maybe 15-20lbs. Or...gear up and get them gaines with an increased diet in 8-12 weeks. Do you know where im coming from? I started lifting hard when I was only 120...In 2-2 1/2 years Im up to 180 right now (fluctuates because I cardio alot to). yea its not big, but my body comp is great. Im looking some androgenic effects and I wanna cycle right, not the normal as you described..."cycled and kept all the gains w/ no PCT."

HAHA. Sorry, i just had to get that out. but an increased diet for 8-12 weeks will still make you loose everything afterwards. Gaining weight means changing diet permanently - and also maintaining weight.

About the pct, everybodys different.

I though i was eating a lot, and i never imagined that i ever had to eat as much as i do. People always thinking i would get fat of all that food, but it required for me to keep weight and gain a bit of weight and my bf is ~12%, which means i'm not fat..

You're absolutely missing the point.. But go ahead do whatever you like, just spare me the complaints when everything is going wrong after the cycle..

I wouldn't do sust as a newbie though. go with one ester..

[t_machine7]

Yesterday ummm hmm lemme think lol.
630
Vitamin/cell-tech
4 eggs 2 toast (white)
Granola bar (trailmix)
OJ
2 pieces of ham
water
800
Cereal bar
granola bar
water
some more OJ
1030
protein shake
PB&J
Noonish
Lunch
2 Tuna sandwiches
water
some baked chips
chocolate milk 2 cookies (hehe)
300
water
A little left over spaghetti
piece of bread
600
2 Chicken Breasts (boneless skinless of course)(Theyre awesome!)
some rice pilaf (good helping bro)
butter bread x 2
Broccoli
Water
about 800
I had a bowl of cereal and a piece of toast
930(bedtime
protein shake
some of the rice pilaf

[testisbest]

I know that he isn't eating right. He can't even post what he had to eat yesterday. Eat more food and you'll be amazed how fast you'll grow and reach your limit.

[t_machine7]

Ok...I heard good things about the sust...that they release at diff. times..maybe not a bad thing ...IDK.. you seem knowledgeable so ill take the advice on the one ester. any recommendations on the one ester?. Your right about the maturity thing...I know this..but on the same token, I realize that my gains are halted...and they can be picked up faster by gear.Im not making a career out of getting huge but I want more gains than im getting now ya know. Ill take the advice about the diet too! Makes sense, absolutely. Im going to do a little less cardio (less catabolic) and start eating more.

[the juggler]

your diet doesn't seem that good to me.

How are your amounts (the weight of each product you are consuming)? how many calories do you get at each meal + total day intake + how are the macros?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, i suggest that you do some reasearch and learn how a real mass-building diet is.

[t_machine7]

You said when everything is going wrong spare the complaints...lol. thats why Im seeking advice to make sure they are minimal complications.

[testisbest]

bro, you need to eat more. I can eat all of that before my 4th meal

[t_machine7]

Good point..I really dont know how much at each meal...but I dont think my diet is that hideous.. I failed to mention that I also take Mass-Tech...weight gainer adds about 1000 calories.

[t_machine7]

testisbeast- lol ok I will try to consume more...mind you im not prolly as big as you also. But I will take the advice and try. Thanks. The Mass-tech is a good idea..more calories and protein?

[the juggler]

Ok...I heard good things about the sust...that they release at diff. times..maybe not a bad thing ...IDK.. you seem knowledgeable so ill take the advice on the one ester. any recommendations on the one ester?..

When a newb you cant shot ED/EOD sust without getting to high doses.
As imo sust should be (perhaps only ED for real vets), due to the prop.

As i see it, you will get too many nasty sides from the unstable bloodlevels that sust will give you with so few shots a week.

Go with test en... ALTHOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE MY APPROVAL USING GEAR..

Leave deca out of your cycle for now.. Keep it simple and fair dosaged (i'm not a saint, but i'm learning)

Guess it's better to help, since some morons decide to do juice anyway, no matter the advice they get.

[the juggler]

testisbeast- lol ok I will try to consume more...mind you im not prolly as big as you also. But I will take the advice and try. Thanks. The Mass-tech is a good idea..more calories and protein?

I like a natural diet more, never like the idea behind the "sugarwater" with some protein in..

I'd do whey and/or cassein supplements if any needed at your level.

Some might disagree, but it's just my 0.50$

[testisbest]

Good point..I really dont know how much at each meal...but I dont think my diet is that hideous.. I failed to mention that I also take Mass-Tech...weight gainer adds about 1000 calories.

Too much money for that crap. If you have to have a shake try cytogainer. Or you could go the cheaper and better route and make your own. Example, 2 cups of milk, 1 cup of oats and 2 scoops of whey protein.

[t_machine7]

Good idea...I think I may spare the xtra 40 and just go with the homemade. Good shit. As far as the gear...yes I prolly am a moron...but aty least ill be a big one lmao . So skip out on the sust ...I hear good shit about deca tho...would you replace it with anything...hypothetically speaking... Are the single esters the same dosage as the sust?

[testisbest]

I can't bring myself to give you cycle advice at your age.

[t_machine7]

sorry...the second portion of that last post was for "the Juggler" my bad. You cant give advice ...Im over the age of 18..at least I wont seriously jack myself up if I get proper cycle info ya know.

[t_machine7]

Juggler...or whom it may concern. The Test enanthate would be better than the Sust...check. But the Deca would help solidify the gains made right thats why I was interested in it? Also PCT with NOV and Hcg PLZZ lol

[the juggler]

Juggler...or whom it may concern. The Test enanthate would be better than the Sust...check. But the Deca would help solidify the gains made right thats why I was interested in it? Also PCT with NOV and Hcg PLZZ lol

Baaah, your head is thicker than a concrete-wall.. Only half i'm telling you is getting through..

I'm not helping anymore cant stand your attitude...

[2deizel]

you obviously did not do any reaserch!!!!!imo cycle looks like garbage.

[t_machine7]

Juggler: I did not get anything besides Test E and dbol along with my PCT..like you said. I did not mean to have bad attitude I just wanted to do this right. I was saying that the only reason I considered the deca was for the kept gains ,...thats all. Im not getting it.

2Deizel: So if the Test E and dbol for 10 weeks is a bad idea...then how can I fix it man?

[t_machine7]

Should I run 500mg (250 twice a week) for the whole cycle? Or taper it.

[ottomaddox]

Everyone here is really trying to be understanding and patient with you, by offering their educated and mostly well thought out game plans. Please listen, we are only trying to help, obviously you're much smarter and better educated than everyone here. Since you have already purchased and decided on what compounds to take, I'm sorry that I can no longer offer you any advice, good or bad. I just gave quick glance at your meal plan:
Yesterday ummm hmm lemme think lol.
630
Vitamin/cell-tech
4 eggs 2 toast (white) Crappy bread with lots of sugar and fillers
Granola bar (trailmix) Lots of Sugar and filler crap, hydrogenated oils
OJ Sugar water w/ Vit. C
2 pieces of ham Lots of NaCl/nitrates/nitrites
water
800
Cereal bar Over processed,too much sugar, try again
granola bar " " " " " " "water
some more OJ Fill up on that Sugar water again
1030
protein shake
PB&J Like Jiff/Skippy or Natty PB w/ low sugar jam
Noonish
Lunch
2 Tuna sandwiches How much tuna/ White bread again?
water
some baked chips Good choice, not.
chocolate milk 2 cookies (hehe) What are you thinking?
300
water
A little left over spaghetti Whole wheat spaghetti?/ or regular crap noodles
piece of bread White again?

600
2 Chicken Breasts (boneless skinless of course)(Theyre awesome!) OK/ Good

some rice pilaf (good helping bro) white/brown rice w/ artificial flavor packet
butter bread x 2 More white bread
Broccoli
Water
about 800
I had a bowl of cereal and a piece of toast Gotta love those Sugar Smacks
930(bedtime
protein shake
some of the rice pilaf Nice Job! At eating a lot of fillers and unhealty foods certainly will make you just put on massive amounts quality muscle.

P.S. Ever heard of vegetables. besides broccoli

[sanejim]

Too much money for that crap. If you have to have a shake try cytogainer. Or you could go the cheaper and better route and make your own. Example, 2 cups of milk, 1 cup of oats and 2 scoops of whey protein.

interesting. thats a great idea, and probably pretty cheap too. how do those work out for you?

[ottomaddox]

Why don't you research and tell us why tapering is not the greatest idea?
Do a little research on your own, that why there's a search feature.

Should I run 500mg (250 twice a week) for the whole cycle? Or taper it.

[t_machine7]

Ok guys...ive been humbled for the 9000th time ...so here it goes. I SUCK at life obviously...but flame me some more...ill prolly find out how to do things the right way that way. But ok...flame taken...ill do some research I looked up some Mass building diet plans...im no pro bodybuilder or dietician...I realize this....but dont u think itd be a better idea to say ...hmm instead of white bread go with wheat or all grain and pasta also. Stay clear of processed sugars...also...I can eat lard and not gain weight bro...however I do get the point. Isnt some necessary though? Come on guys...Im a newb...cut me some slack...isnt this considered research? Yes and today I did read a ton of threads..and I guess until I read more and actually get a cycle under my belt I continue to get flamed.

[t_machine7]

Take that back...i realize your only trying to help bro..my bad. Im a little tipsy lol St.Patty's Day bro.

[t_machine7]

Oj not good...check? I guess I learn something new. As for the white bread...isnt it higher in carbs? Still a bad idea...I have wheat but thought the white was better for mass. Thought wrong I guess. Yes veggies...Ill have to work on that I had a salad lol and broccoli...I get on that. I do take gnc mens sport vitamin to try to help.

[t_machine7]

lol fyi...I do like sugar smack...not lol I had shredded wheat...yea with the frosting.

[t_machine7]

Im taking a wild guess to say that the whole taper thing is bad...guess logic of
gradually introducing ( I know shock the receptors) and weaning off is out the door..point taken.

[perfectbeast2001]

go to the diet forums and write a proper planned diet with macros. What you are eating at the moment is terrible.

[t_machine7]

Will do.

[sasman]

run the test E..... 250mg a week/ 8wks you will get everything you want out of it i promise. Next PCT 500 iu hcg 3 wks/ with 20mg nolva 6 wks....

listen man you are too young....and by the sounds of it you are not even playing sports, which would make it all ok in my book. but i wouldn't do, however i realize that you are going to make your own choice. as far as you diet..... you need to eat more. Now i realize that your diet was joked around about and a said to be a joke....which is true....but at the same time that would be from a person of bodybuilding standpoint. when you are as young as you are get as many cals as you can.... you are not going to get gat at all.... and watching your sugars isn't really a huge issue which makes white toast not so bad either..... just get more cals man..... and i would reconsider using....... but if you do..... trust me you will get everything you need out of just the 8wks of test e. you will be huge! 20lbs for sure, if you train hard!