My 12 week RAW Bench Program

[Midwest Viking]

Weeks 1-3

Flat...............................Incline........ .......................Decline
135 X 5..........................135 X 5.............................95 X 20
225 X 5..........................155 X 5.............................105 X 25
255 X 5..........................185 X 5 X 3.......................115 X 30
275 X 3 X 3....................135 X 10
225 X 10
135 X 15

Weeks 4-6

Flat...............................Incline........ ......................Decline
135 X 5.........................135 X 5.............................95 X 20
225 X 5.........................185 X 5.............................115 X 25
265 X 5.........................205 X 5 X 3.......................135 X 30
295 X 3 X 3....................135 X 10
225 X 10
135 X 15

Weeks 7-9

Flat.............................Incline.......... ......................Decline
135 X 5........................135 X 5..............................95 X 20
225 X 5........................185 X 5..............................115 X 30
265 X 5........................225 X 5 X 3.........................135 X 40
305 X 3 X 3...................135 X 10
255 X 10
185 X 15

Weeks 10-12

Flat.............................Incline.......... .......................Decline
135 X 5........................135 X 5...............................95 X 20
225 X 5........................205 X 5...............................115 X 30
275 X 5........................245 X 5 X 3.........................135 X 40
315 X 3 X 3..................135 X 10
255 X 10
185 X 15

[RJstrong]

wow... not a whole lot of variety. i hope it works for ya.

[Midwest Viking]

For powerlifting, this has worked best for me. I believe in keeping it simple, if you want to get good at bench press, do bench press, if you want to get good at deadlift, than do deadlift, etc.
I go up to a weight I can do for 3 sets of 3 reps, then, I go back down to do higher reps. When I end up with decline, I keep the weight light, use a narrow grip, and go for high reps. This helps me to build my indurance and lockout.
I used to do all that "use a cage or boards to work lockout, or off the chest"
and for me, that just doesnt work, and makes no sense. When you do bench press, you have to be able to come all the way down to yur chest, press it off your chest, follow through the sticking point, and lock it out. So rather than just training lockout, while you let the rest of the motion go to hell, etc... I feel that if you want to be able to make weight go from the top, to the bottom, and back up, than you should do alot of movements that involve taking the weight from the top, to the bottom, and back up.

Back when I did all the "fancy" stuff, like incorporated dumbbell press, and flies, and crossovers, and pec deck, and boards, etc... all just to help y bench press, my bench press rarely went up, and I got stuck at one weight for long periods of time. But when i cut the crap, and decided I was going to get a good bench, by doing bench, suddenly, I almost never get stuck at a certain weight, and my bench is better and better all the time.

[RJstrong]

sounds like you have it all figured out... good luck!

[quarry206]

what is your max?

body wieght?

how did you make this program?

is it based on precentages or did you just plug numbers that u feel work for you?

what other workouts do u use to help since u don't do lockouts or anything..?


i'm a raw bench person myself, over the next 12 months i hope to really break into competeing in larger meets so i realy like learning about other peoples programs...

[Midwest Viking]

Not sure of my one rep max, but I know it is over 300. I did an EASY 300 in competition, and then 6 days later got 315 at another competition.
My thing is, I am not good with reps, but I am good at one rep movements. like at one point, I could only do 275 for 2 reps, but then I could go up and get 285 for 2 reps, then I would go to 295, only be able to do it once, but still be able to go up and get 300 for one.... so reps have never been a good way to judge what i can do for one rep.
Basically, since I can do over 300 raw, I wanted to go down to something like 275, and work on doing that for 3 sets of 3, I could already do it, but my main focuse each week is to get it easier and faster for those 3 sets of 3 reps. So by the time it is time to do 295 for 3 sets of 3, it will be easier than if I tried it initially, etc.
basically by keeping the weight heavy enough that I can only do 3x3, I feel I am keeping it heavy enough to build power, and by doing 3x3 rather than just maxing out over and over, I am getting my body used to moving that amount of weight for multiple reps and multiple sets, so when it is time to up the weight, my body is better prepared. This way I can slowly build a new max by upping the weight in my 3x3 sets rather than trying to build a new max by maxing out all the time.

As far as lockouts go, I naturally have a very strong lock out, so I don't have to do anything for it particularly, I just make sure I train my triceps.
After every chest workout, I do 3 sets of skull crushers for 8 reps, then I do one arm overhead dumbell extension for 3 sets of 8 reps. Other weeks instead of skull crushers, I will do cable pressdown, but naturally, I work my triceps more on decline bench because I use a narrow grip.

Oh, and I am 18 years old, weigh 195 lbs, and so far have gotten 315 on bench, and have not attempted more.

[quarry206]

well for your age you are on a good path. i was 180-185 at age 18 and benching around 330lb. so basically your same numbers about..

one thing your need to maybe think about alittle is the number of "working sets" you have and putting your effort in them. doing sets with massive reps does not help your max. because when you do sets with that many reps you lose alot of form and thats what you need to focus on. you are doing around 13sets.. try focusing on the "working sets" of your workout and not just a total number of sets

when u walk out of the gym feeling a really good pump and burn is not always mean you got a good power lifting workout, Muslce hypertrophy is for bodybuilding not pwerlifting..

and about you not liking doing half movements and things of that natural. i feel you on that, i don't either.. BUT!! when you get closer to having a big bench number u will need to do them for the lock out, and so not to over train your CNS.. your still young and only benching about 1.5 times your body weight so your numbers are growing from strait pushing.. but when you get another 50pounds on that bench you will freeze at that level until you mix it up and train full and half movements..

when i was only benching 1.5 my wieght i gained like crazy.. then when i got to 1.75-2.0 times my body weight i had to train for powerlifting not just training using heavy weight.. now at age 25 at 198lb i'm benching 445lb with a pause and as much as 460lb with a touch and go.

[RJstrong]

well for your age you are on a good path. i was 180-185 at age 18 and benching around 330lb. so basically your same numbers about..

one thing your need to maybe think about alittle is the number of "working sets" you have and putting your effort in them. doing sets with massive reps does not help your max. because when you do sets with that many reps you lose alot of form and thats what you need to focus on. you are doing around 13sets.. try focusing on the "working sets" of your workout and not just a total number of sets

when u walk out of the gym feeling a really good pump and burn is not always mean you got a good power lifting workout, Muslce hypertrophy is for bodybuilding not pwerlifting..

and about you not liking doing half movements and things of that natural. i feel you on that, i don't either.. BUT!! when you get closer to having a big bench number u will need to do them for the lock out, and so not to over train your CNS.. your still young and only benching about 1.5 times your body weight so your numbers are growing from strait pushing.. but when you get another 50pounds on that bench you will freeze at that level until you mix it up and train full and half movements..

when i was only benching 1.5 my wieght i gained like crazy.. then when i got to 1.75-2.0 times my body weight i had to train for powerlifting not just training using heavy weight.. now at age 25 at 198lb i'm benching 445lb with a pause and as much as 460lb with a touch and go.

you make some good points here... this was along the lines of what i was thinking. any training will basically work when your 18 years old and only benching 300+ lbs. it just looks like more of a bodybuilding workout rather than a powerlifting program to me. but i can tell this individual is not looking for help as he as stated previously that there is "no better training then his training"...

[quarry206]

ok mid west, i read your other posts to try and get a feeling of where you are coming from and going... and strait up, you are not a powerlifter...

i mean it sounds great that you are wanting to try, but u are still 18 and u have the 18 year old mind set... get away from that, and then come back to powerlifting.. body building and powerlifting are different. way different...

so be real with us, since now i have noticed this is actually ur second time basicially posting this work out. do u want us to tell you good job?? or are you here for help??

midwest, i and the rest of this board support anybody from the guys benching 135lb to the guys benching 700+ equip .. we all work together to enjoy and get better

your 18 and have already done one hard 12 week cycle of 500mg a week of Test E. you say u know what works best but most all powerlifters don't start to understand their CNS and own body till the ages of 26-30. which when somebody reads your threads they can see in ALL of them you seem to argue with somebody givin you help as if you know best. you are doing a bodybuildier work out and only making gains because your young and still low in your numbers. any 18 year old low in max numbers will make gains almost monthly. so if u like feeling a pump when you leave the gym, stay with that workout, it will work for alittle while.. but you will not get near the gains you could be getting.. and you will hit a wall probably within the next 25pounds.. and you won't break it unless u change your workout or if you go back to juice which you are WAY TO YOUNG and by your posts in other threads don't know anything about what you are shooting in yourself

this is not meant to be mean.. its only meant to be real and honest with you, anybody that thinks i am totally wrong please post your advise

[RJstrong]

ok mid west, i read your other posts to try and get a feeling of where you are coming from and going... and strait up, you are not a powerlifter...

i mean it sounds great that you are wanting to try, but u are still 18 and u have the 18 year old mind set... get away from that, and then come back to powerlifting.. body building and powerlifting are different. way different...

so be real with us, since now i have noticed this is actually ur second time basicially posting this work out. do u want us to tell you good job?? or are you here for help??

midwest, i and the rest of this board support anybody from the guys benching 135lb to the guys benching 700+ equip .. we all work together to enjoy and get better

your 18 and have already done one hard 12 week cycle of 500mg a week of Test E. you say u know what works best but most all powerlifters don't start to understand their CNS and own body till the ages of 26-30. which when somebody reads your threads they can see in ALL of them you seem to argue with somebody givin you help as if you know best. you are doing a bodybuildier work out and only making gains because your young and still low in your numbers. any 18 year old low in max numbers will make gains almost monthly. so if u like feeling a pump when you leave the gym, stay with that workout, it will work for alittle while.. but you will not get near the gains you could be getting.. and you will hit a wall probably within the next 25pounds.. and you won't break it unless u change your workout or if you go back to juice which you are WAY TO YOUNG and by your posts in other threads don't know anything about what you are shooting in yourself


this is not meant to be mean.. its only meant to be real and honest with you, anybody that thinks i am totally wrong please post your advise

as i stated before i'm with you here. i would love to help this kid... it just seems his approach is wrong in terms of bragging instead of looking for help. damn i mean i was 18 once i know the feeling of knowing it all, but lets be honest everyone has room to improve and anyone who thinks that they have it all figured out may miss out on quality help. i love to learn from others. besides researching in and out of the gym practically daily on my own i always try to seek out knowledge from guys who have been there in the trenches, and to me, that's priceless info. i wish you well midwest... don't take this personally. i've been competing at a high level for over 6 years... i have done nationals now 3 years in a row, but you know what the best part of that is... learning from my mistakes and gaining knowledge from other lifters. see that's the greatest part about powerlifting, imo, the fact that fellow competitors will be right by your side pulling for you to get that big lift. well midwest all i can say is... i'm pulling for you brother!!!

[Midwest Viking]

I know that alot of the time, I come of as a "know it all"
but that is not how I am trying to come off. To put it as simply and honestly as possible...
I trained with Ron Palmer for about 6 months. I used a RageX bench shirt, a MaxDL suit, and even used a fusion deadlift suit. I always used wrist wraps, we did alot of board press, rack pulls, and even tried bands once.
But, in that time, I noticed a couple of things. My raw bench was going nowhere because we used shirts too much, and when it was time to bench raw, I had no power. I noticed my raw deadlift was also not going anywhere, I noticed that my wrist were becoming weak from always babying them with wrist wraps, etc.
So, I quit training with him, and starting training myself. At first I did not go for power, I just wanted to keep in shape, and go more for size, so I put together a bodybuilding program. Then, about half way through my cycle of test E, I decided to start training heavy. My starting raw bench was 245, and by the end of my cycle, I got 295.
Well, since I have gone off my cycle, I have lost water weight, and I am more lean, but I have not gotten weaker, I have actually continued to get stronger.
So, when I would hop on here, and people would say "you are going to get weaker any day now since it is the end of your cycle" I would listen, but it never happened.
Then when I would post a workout, or ask a question, or read someone elses workout, all I would hear/read was that I needed to do board presses, use bands, do lockouts, maybe think about using a suit and shirt, etc.
So naturally, the first thing in my mind was "I have already done all that, and it didn't help at all" So i would get the attitude that what I was doing worked better than what they wee telling me to do.
For this thread, I was basically showing my program, to see what people would say. Since RJ said simply "not alot of variety, hope it works for you" I basically was trying to respond that so far yes, it does work for me.

I really do appriciate advice, and my main interest is powerlifting. If someone can give me a good powerlifting split, for a RAW lifter, than I would really apriciate it.
I am not so much against boards, but I would rather not use bands or suits/shirts....
Honestly, I really do appriciate you taking the time to read this, as well as any advice you have to give.

[needsomehelp]

I like it start to finish. Similar to my thinking regarding reps/wgt ratio.

[RJstrong]

are you leading up to a contest with this program?

[Midwest Viking]

no, I am done competing until November. I am basically just trying to keep the gains coming.

[cmillett]

from what I've read about your goals,Here you go MidWest,
sun-off
mon-upper back
tues-bench assisstance
wedn-off
thirs-sq/dl or legs
fri=off
sat-main bench day or bench ME day

for the bench ME day
wk. bench...............secondary............assisstan ce
1. 70% 5x5...............2 or 3 brd 3x5.......incline BB 3x8-12
2. 75% 3-4x5............same...................same
3. 80% 3x3...............same...................same
4. 75% 3-4x5............CG decline 5x5......incline DB 3x8-10
5. 80% 3x3...............same...................same
6. 85% 3x3...............same...................same
7. 80% 3x3...............4brd 3x5..............seated DB press 3x10
8. 85% 3x3...............same...................same
9. 90% 1-2x3............same...................same
10.Deload 65% 3x5.....none...................PLATE raises 3x10-15
11.MEET or MAX

There is plenty of volume there for you,and at the same you can getvthose brds in there also.
Hit me up if need be,I'll gladly help those that are willing too help themsleves.

[cmillett]

also ,here are some good guidlines for your primary lifts
....%............reps per set........opt. total.........training range
50-65%..........3-6...................24...................18-30
70-75%..........3-6...................18...................12-24
80-85%..........2-4...................15...................10-20
90% +............1-2...................7.....................4-10

[RJstrong]

from what I've read about your goals,Here you go MidWest,
sun-off
mon-upper back
tues-bench assisstance
wedn-off
thirs-sq/dl or legs
fri=off
sat-main bench day or bench ME day

for the bench ME day
wk. bench...............secondary............assisstan ce
1. 70% 5x5...............2 or 3 brd 3x5.......incline BB 3x8-12
2. 75% 3-4x5............same...................same
3. 80% 3x3...............same...................same
4. 75% 3-4x5............CG decline 5x5......incline DB 3x8-10
5. 80% 3x3...............same...................same
6. 85% 3x3...............same...................same
7. 80% 3x3...............4brd 3x5..............seated DB press 3x10
8. 85% 3x3...............same...................same
9. 90% 1-2x3............same...................same
10.Deload 65% 3x5.....none...................PLATE raises 3x10-15
11.MEET or MAX

There is plenty of volume there for you,and at the same you can getvthose brds in there also.
Hit me up if need be,I'll gladly help those that are willing too help themsleves.

this i like... it leads to heavy singles which is obviously what the sport is all about. and remember boards are not simply about lock out strength... 1) you can target your weak point or sticking point by using the appropriate board 2) they allow you to go heavier (3-5 board for example)... nothing better than getting that heavy weight in your hands and preparing the CNS. 3) takes away the bottom end transition with heavy weight allowing you to go heavier for longer lowering your risk of injury (it always happens at the bottom end transition) trust me i just partially tore my left pec with 495 a month ago...i was training raw and wish i would of took my own advice here...lol.

try to get over the fact that you dont like bands or chains... once again it isn't all about lock out strength... it is really more about bar speed. nothing is more important than speed in any sport including powerlfting. and trust me this isn't only for the geared up lifter... IMO training with chains and bands are one of the best ways to help your bar speed. i use gear to compete however my raw strength continues to increase using these basic principles. your body will adapt quickly to the same old thing... get creative and change things up by using these techniques. typically i will use 3 week waves although i rarely do the same thing week after week. slight adjustments from band tension to chain weight will do wonders.

the more options you have in your arsenal the better off you will be and you will find that the skys the limit. i hope you keep up your hard work because you have great strength for your age. just stay open minded and give some of these techniques a chance. i understand the law of individual differences; however, some of these basic techniques are universal if the approach is thought out and followed thru in an effective manner.

good luck and keep lifting big!!!

[cmillett]

this i like... it leads to heavy singles which is obviously what the sport is all about. and remember boards are not simply about lock out strength... 1) you can target your weak point or sticking point by using the appropriate board 2) they allow you to go heavier (3-5 board for example)... nothing better than getting that heavy weight in your hands and preparing the CNS. 3) takes away the bottom end transition with heavy weight allowing you to go heavier for longer lowering your risk of injury (it always happens at the bottom end transition) trust me i just partially tore my left pec with 495 a month ago...i was training raw and wish i would of took my own advice here...lol.

try to get over the fact that you dont like bands or chains... once again it isn't all about lock out strength... it is really more about bar speed. nothing is more important than speed in any sport including powerlfting. and trust me this isn't only for the geared up lifter... IMO training with chains and bands are one of the best ways to help your bar speed. i use gear to compete however my raw strength continues to increase using these basic principles. your body will adapt quickly to the same old thing... get creative and change things up by using these techniques. typically i will use 3 week waves although i rarely do the same thing week after week. slight adjustments from band tension to chain weight will do wonders.

the more options you have in your arsenal the better off you will be and you will find that the skys the limit. i hope you keep up your hard work because you have great strength for your age. just stay open minded and give some of these techniques a chance. i understand the law of individual differences; however, some of these basic techniques are universal if the approach is thought out and followed thru in an effective manner.

good luck and keep lifting big!!!

I'm glad you like it RJ. I feel like you and Doc have finally drove that knowledge nail into my head ,LOL
As you can see that cycle is 3 3 wk waves building to a new 1RM with PLENTY of volume for you Midwest.
I STRONGLY agree with RJ.
Also not every routine rep for rep,set for set works the same for everyone,age ,exp.,size,and condition play big roles in training for a monster 1 rep.The routine I listed above ,I feel is right up your alley,I just wish I would have put something like this together 10yrs ago when I was your age,LOL.
Oh and I forgot,never doubt a routine ,commit and stay confident NO matter what,that way you can honestly sa it does or doesnt work for you.

[scottish]

Nice job guys to stay with him.. Cudos..


That routine you posted might not be too bad for myself. Hmmmmmmm...

[cmillett]

That routine you posted might not be too bad for myself. Hmmmmmmm...[/QUOTE]


I'm afraid I will have too charge you bro,sorry =( J/K LOL.

[scottish]

Its all good. My wife has a gourmet cheesecake company.. I can send ya one...

[cmillett]

DUDE. I LOVE FVCKING CHEESCAKE,give me your email.

[Midwest Viking]

Thankyou for all of the detailed advice. To be honest, I do not have anything "against" bands, I just don't own any, don't know much on how to use them, don't know where to buy them, and don't really want to buy them, then wait for them to come in the mail, then try to learn how to use them, etc....
But, I know that alot of big time powerlifters really support them.
I was also looking at the Westside Barbell website, and saw some bench routines on there. Does anyone hold any specific opinions on westside training?

[cmillett]

Thankyou for all of the detailed advice. To be honest, I do not have anything "against" bands, I just don't own any, don't know much on how to use them, don't know where to buy them, and don't really want to buy them, then wait for them to come in the mail, then try to learn how to use them, etc....
But, I know that alot of big time powerlifters really support them.
I was also looking at the Westside Barbell website, and saw some bench routines on there. Does anyone hold any specific opinions on westside training?

I use a WSBB approach to my equiped bench,but more so as a secondary when training my raw as a primary,
Give the routine I stated above a run,that has a little of everything in it.

[akh 1985]

westside is everything you said doesnt work for you

they typically use boards, bands, chains, and floor presses

also i feel westside routines are primarily for equiped lifters

[Midwest Viking]

I will give your program a shot cmillet.
Again, thanks to everyone for their opinions and thoughts.
After doing this new program for awhile, I will update everyone on my progress...

[cmillett]

keep us updated,hell why not even post a log,we will all be able to help you through your progress.

[Tbone1975]

You guys have insane knowledge. Jeez!!!! Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing it. The more I learn about powerlifting, the more I learn that it is not just a different kind of sport/training, but a different kind of WORLD. Damn. Board presses, CNS, bands, chains, LOL, my head's gonna explode.

[cmillett]

You guys have insane knowledge. Jeez!!!! Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing it. The more I learn about powerlifting, the more I learn that it is not just a different kind of sport/training, but a different kind of WORLD. Damn. Board presses, CNS, bands, chains, LOL, my head's gonna explode.

Yea I love this board.And yes there is alot of knowledge here,all earned from trial and error,the best kind of knowledge.