Global Warming Debate...

[Dizz28]

These are graphs from the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC).

this first graph shows temperature variants for the past 100 years up to the year 2000.

the Earth is about a degree cooler than it was in the 1920's and 1930's which doesn't explain how CO2 really has any effect on global temperature since we have supposedly doubled or tripled the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere during that time




Second Graph shows Temperature variants since about 1000B.C.

We are about 1.5 degrees cooler now that the Earth was a little less than 1000 years ago and about 2.5 degrees cooler than the Earth was 2,500 years ago. Once again, not living up to the "Co2 causes Global Warming" theory



One thing that scientists have found is that the Earth is constantly changing temperature and has been doing this for millions of years. Ice ages and "climate optimums" have been happening fairly regularly in those periods. The Earth Is getting warmer, yes, but not because of us burning fossile fuels. It would be typical Human arrogance to think that we can do something to somehow stop the Earth from it's due course in warming.

I do agree that we are massively polluting the Earth and killing off species of animals...but that has nothing to do with temperature. Scientists have found that the increased CO2 is acually making plants and crops grow faster and yealding larger harvests

Lets have a clean, non-flaming and respectful debate on your opinions (IF ANY) about this.

Thanks

[peteroy01]

well doc, i think you hit the nail on the head. its hard arguing with those facts. i never believed in global warming anyways.

[Amorphic]

I do agree that we are massively polluting the Earth and killing off species of animals...but that has nothing to do with temperature. Scientists have found that the increased CO2 is acually making plants and crops grow faster and yealding larger harvests

I agree with this as well. Its alarming how governments (US mainly) cares about nothing but sucking the planet dry of natural resources no matter what the cost.

[buffgator]

I dont believe in global warming. There has been tons of dramatic changes in the world without one car, factory, or airesol hairspray can ever existing.

[Dizz28]

I did this just mainly because of the recent media coverage about the melting icecaps, hurricaine and other weather problems

One good book to read : "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton. It's a fiction story based on non-fiction facts. Very good read even if you don't care about all this and if you did ever believe in "Global Warming" then you won't about halfway through the book when he starts listing facts

[Serotonin]

I personally have been skeptical about global warming for a while. For one, that entire ice-age thing was such a global catastrophe. It paved the way for the species that now inhabit the planet, and put us on the top of the food chain and at the top of everything.

After learning about the shifting of the magnetic poles, and how the core of the Earth generates it, a degree or two fluctuation seems silly to me. Some of the statistics are crazy, even worse than burning fuel is the slash and burn technique they use to clear rainforests. It puts thousands and thousands of metric tons of carbon right into the atmosphere.

Then again, matter can never be created nor destroyed, you see the statistical evidence for temperature "fluctuations" but has the levels of CO2 markedly increased? Sure we're converting the fossil fuels in the ground to CO2 in gaseous form but, it seems like a stretch to believe that if every drop of fossil fuels were burnt up, that it would affect the planet on a global scale.

I'd be more worried about finding alternatives to fossil fuels than jerking my dick about global warming. People's priorities are fuct imo.

[Dizz28]

There has been tons of dramatic changes in the world without one car, factory, or airesol hairspray can ever existing.

Exactly the point

[PEWN]

[PEWN]

[novastepp]

propaganda. they will tell us what they want. i only watch the news for entertainment purposes anymore.

[batlin]

agree 100%

[longhorn814]

the earth has undergone numerous climate changes over the past 4.3 billion years since it was formed. Right now our climate is warming as we are technically still coming out of the last ice age. Im a geologist so I dont buy the global warming crap fed to us by the liberal media

[Dizz28]

Strange, I thought there would be some people argueing it. Glad to see people don't buy what's sold to them on CNN

[IronReload04]

these are my 2 questions


now, i am just an uneducated, unbiased, un-opinianated person on the topic

these are my 2 questions



1. if the earth is cooler now, than it was 1000's of years ago, how have pro-global warmers's argument survived that the earth is getting warmer? or are they arguing that it "will" get warmer

2. why has the claim that the polar ice caps are melting survived so long......now, i have heard that much more gets replaced, than what melts, and people freak out about the melting part? am i on the right track here?

[Dizz28]

1. if the earth is cooler now, than it was 1000's of years ago, how have pro-global warmers's argument survived that the earth is getting warmer? or are they arguing that it "will" get warmer

Because they choose thier data to support thier theories without looking at the whole picture. If you take only the temp data from around 1700 to 2000 on the first graph it looks like the earth is heating up fast along with the industrial revolution. Confirming their theory about CO2 causing the Earth to warm. Also, in the second graph, if you take data from only 1970 to 2000 then it looks like the earth is on a warming trend along with the boom of gass guzzler cars and the population boom

2. why has the claim that the polar ice caps are melting survived so long......now, i have heard that much more gets replaced, than what melts, and people freak out about the melting part? am i on the right track here?

Because this is media hype. They fail to mention that these things have happened many times before on this planet

One question to ask yourself How are you going to believe computerized climate models telling us how hot the Earth is going to be 100 years from now if they can't predict the weather 5 days from now?

[novastepp]

on that last comment. i love it.

[TR'05]

I'm more worried about the intellectual climate.

[kfrost06]

very good post! Global warming is a farce and nothing more than a scare tactic. I wish we did have global warming, I hate the cold.

[Dizz28]

on that last comment. i love it.

Kinda puts things in perspective quick doesn't it?

I'm more worried about the intellectual climate

That's a true crisis right there...

very good post!

Thank you, Kfrost

[Dizz28]

back to the top

[energizer bunny]

I dont believe in global warming. There has been tons of dramatic changes in the world without one car, factory, or airesol hairspray can ever existing.

DITTO!!

[IronReload04]

you've inspired me to make an HIV thread tomarrow

[Dizz28]

you've inspired me to make an HIV thread tomarrow

Uh oh....can't wait to see what's in store with that. What myths are you gonna bust with that thread?

[Bryan2]

your first graph shows just the US temperature???

Wouldnt the optimum location be the ice caps??? or even multiple areas around the world and not just one location?

I honestly agree that greenhouse gas is affecting the environment as there is no way of debunking the shear scientific fact that greenhouse gas does cause heating.

its as to what degree we have to worry about.

when I see most argue over global warming many state as if greenhouse gas does absolutley nothing to the environment at all.

[Dizz28]

Wouldnt the optimum location be the ice caps??? or even multiple areas around the world and not just one location?

No, the optimum location for temperature reads would be the equator where the sun shines the strongest and the "greenhouse" gasses would have the greatest effect on average temperature

When you say Greenhouse gas you are reffering to CO2 right?

[Dizz28]

Keepin it alive

[taiboxa]

a meteor didnt kill the dinosaurs..
George Bush did

[Amorphic]

roar roar dinosaur

[IronReload04]

Uh oh....can't wait to see what's in store with that. What myths are you gonna bust with that thread?

i dont really have time now, but when i get some, i want to show people that their are peer reviewed articles out there, with claims that HIV is not proven to exist, improper methods were used to "discover" it, and people are basically taking drugs for things that scientists are absolutely clueless about

[Serotonin]

i dont really have time now, but when i get some, i want to show people that their are peer reviewed articles out there, with claims that HIV is not proven to exist, improper methods were used to "discover" it, and people are basically taking drugs for things that scientists are absolutely clueless about

What... Even though there is a 99.99999999999999999% chance I'd never for a second believe HIV didn't exist, I wouldn't mind looking at your articles.

[Kärnfysikern]

Taken from National oceanic and atmospheric administration
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/gcag/gcag.html


1880-2006, global, deviation from mean. Trend 0.05°C/decade


1880-2006, North america, deviation from mean. Trend 0.05°C/decade


1880-2006, Asia, deviation from mean. Trend 0.07°C/decade


1880-2006, Europe, deviation from mean. Trend 0.09°C/decade


1880-2006, Australia, deviation from mean. Trend 0.04°C/decade


Looks like its getting hotter....

[Kärnfysikern]

i dont really have time now, but when i get some, i want to show people that their are peer reviewed articles out there, with claims that HIV is not proven to exist, improper methods were used to "discover" it, and people are basically taking drugs for things that scientists are absolutely clueless about

HIV virus attacking a cell


Close up of HIV virus

[Dizz28]

....and then I post the whole picture from the last few thousand years....



If you only take data from the last hundred years then it looks like a warming trend out of no where. Once again, people pick and choose data to try and prove what they believe

[Kärnfysikern]

....and then I post the whole picture from the last few thousand years....



If you only take data from the last hundred years then it looks like a warming trend out of no where. Once again, people pick and choose data to try and prove what they believe

Also from NOAA
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../medieval.html

There are not enough records available to reconstruct global or even hemispheric mean temperature prior to about 600 years ago with a high degree of confidence. What records that do exist show is that there was no multi-century periods when global or hemispheric temperatures were the same or warmer than in the 20th century.

In summary, it appears that the 20th century, and in particular the late 20th century, is likely the warmest the Earth has seen in at least 1200 years.

[Kärnfysikern]

26 comon myths about global warming. Havent read through them all but looks quite good
http://environment.newscientist.com/.../earth/dn11462

[Kärnfysikern]

Are you picking the graphs from this page? They are identical atleast.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

Unless that paper has been published in a peer review journal I wouldnt trust it.

[Dizz28]

Are you picking the graphs from this page? They are identical atleast.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

Unless that paper has been published in a peer review journal I wouldnt trust it.

ya those graphs on that page are from the NCDC

[Kärnfysikern]

ya those graphs on that page are from the NCDC

Well the graphs I posted are straight from NCDC(part of NOAA) database. Go to the link in my post and you get straight to NCDC database.

The problem with the graphs on the page your using is that they show temperature, not deviation from a mean temperature. When we are talking about changes of the order of 0.2°C its impossible to notice them in a graph like that.

[Serotonin]

Kärnfysikern, those graphs certainly show a rise in temperature but the standard deviation is .5-1 degree. Not very considerable.

On a side note, have any of you ever read the stuff on the switching of the Earth's magnetic poles? It is a phenomenon that happens, and when it does the planet loses its electromagnetic shield that protects us from solar winds and radiation. I've often wondered what that will do to the planets temperature when it happens again... supposedly it is estimated to be happening soon. The same thing is what causes planets like Mercury and Mars to be vaporized now. Those planets were too small and they cooled faster than Earth. The molten iron in the core, spinning at fast rates is what generates the shield. When those planets cooled they lost their shield so to speak, and the solar winds from the sun stripped away their atmospheres, resulting in them now being crispy. Which is another reason it is expected that Mars will eventually turn up signs of life.

Stock up on your SPF 20000000000000.

[Kärnfysikern]

Kärnfysikern, those graphs certainly show a rise in temperature but the standard deviation is .5-1 degree. Not very considerable.

On a side note, have any of you ever read the stuff on the switching of the Earth's magnetic poles? It is a phenomenon that happens, and when it does the planet loses its electromagnetic shield that protects us from solar winds and radiation. I've often wondered what that will do to the planets temperature when it happens again... supposedly it is estimated to be happening soon. The same thing is what causes planets like Mercury and Mars to be vaporized now. Those planets were too small and they cooled faster than Earth. The molten iron in the core, spinning at fast rates is what generates the shield. When those planets cooled they lost their shield so to speak, and the solar winds from the sun stripped away their atmospheres, resulting in them now being crispy. Which is another reason it is expected that Mars will eventually turn up signs of life.

Stock up on your SPF 20000000000000.

Flipping of the magnetic poles has no effect on the climate. The temperature isnt realy effect at all from solar radiation(the high energy protons ect). It probably wont be to healthy to us though, but I dont think any extiction event is connected to a flipping of the poles so it seems like most animals have survived it.

It might wreack havoc on electronics if it happens suddenly and beeing outside during a solar flare probably wouldnt be a good idea either though Without a magnetic field solar flares could knock out entire electricity grids. The blackout in Quebec on a global scale.