Testosterone --does it eat tendons?

[Sculpture]

Ok so I'm sure most of us have read posts about how testosterone lowers collagen synthesis while things like deca and equipoise raise collagen synthesis, so supposedly if you run test only cycles your gonna wear out your tendons and ligaments etc. But nowhere have I seen any scientific studies or anything to back this up. I CANT BELIEVE THIS ISSUE HASNT BEEN DISCUSSED MORE AND RESOLVED!!!! If this is true than a huge percentage of the gear users out there are gonna have destroyed bodies at an early age so i think we need to care about this issue!! Can someone please start posting some useful info. with evidence to back it up on this subject. Scientific studies are what i need to see, personal expirience is ok too but harder to get concrete evidence from, thanks to any who answer this post with something useful!!

[Schmidty]

Iv never heard of test doing that.

[Bigmax]

No facts on that bro...The issue of tendons came up where guys were growing too fast for their tendons ....the muscle was growing at a way faster pace then ligaments and tendons and sooner or later "snap" something would tear...pecs.triceps and quads...another thing was that an adverse reaction of some compounds was to loosen tendons and ligaments....so there you have it ...while putting on muscle you are simultaneously loosening tensons...somethings gotta give at that point.....this is not concrete but some of the things I have read ...

[MuscleScience]

To add to what bigmax said above, there was some leap of logic that because of increased testosterone in the body that would also lead to increase estrogen due to high conversion. Some believed or believe that much like in women where estrogen has an effect on some of the elastic components of joints (ligaments, tendons and cartilage) are to and extent effected by estrogen, hence along with a few other reasons that women are more flexible in general.

The same logic correctly or incorrectly was used to explain as a possible mechanism for injury in power lifters and athletes with ruptured tendons and such. I don't think the literature out there is very clear one way or another if it is indeed true or not. At least most of what I have seen has it going either way as a plausible explanation.

[meathead320]

IMHO, and I cannot back this up either, so this is just the sum of what I have gathered...take it with a grian of salt.

It is does dependant.

Collagen synthesis is lowered by doses OVER 250mg EW, or at least not supported as much as the growth of the muscles themselves. The body would basically rob Peter, to pay Paul, in terms of Collagen. This is one of the reasons Nadrolone (Deca), or Boldanone (EQ) are used with test, as they greatly increase Collagen synthesis, and can keep the joints and connective tissue in par with the muscles. HGH would also aid in this.

However, for those guys running low doses of test, the top end of HRT, with 150-200mg EW, the Collagen synthesis is very high, and no Deca or EQ, or even hGH would be needed to keep the tendons strong. In fact the slight amount of Estradiol made from the TRT would also increase IGF-1 and hGH so that may be where that comes from.

Again, this is just from memory, and as I recall, this is DOSE DEPENDANT.

No one naturally has a T level 4000 ng/dl, so when levels get like that, all bets are off.

[Sculpture]

I've gathered that too but only from hearsaqy just like you and I'm very suspicious......................

[meathead320]

It is also possible that guys what have used too much of an AI, with testosterone alone, have cut estradiol too low, and that the tendons respond more to the secondary effects of estradiol, such as hgh and IGf-1.

SO by cutting E2 (Estradiol) you could easily hurt your tendons, however the jury is still out as to weather testosterone helps or hurts tendons, and even that could be dose dependant.

[Sculpture]

i totally believe you are right, i think estrogen blockers are the real reason for test's reputation as lowering collagen synthesis. High androgen/estrogen ratio is what ive susspected and it's good to hear someone else say it thanks.

[canttouchthis9]

to add to bigmax and Muscle Science on this one. I've never seen any facts or research that testosterone lowers collagen synthesis, just that the collagen fibers are not as vascular as the muscles and are not able to grow as quickly as the muscles. This would explain many injuries to tendons and ligaments because of the tremendous force produced by the new muscle growth and strength, whereas the tendons and ligaments can't keep up. A very interesting topic about increased estrogen may influence these collagen fibers. I know there has been research done that shows many girls tear their ACL's around the time that there has been a high release of a certain chemical (i believe it is called relaxin) and i believe this occurs around their period....might be somethin to look into.....hope this helps.

[Ashop]

Iv never heard of test doing that.

I personally think its BS.

[canttouchthis9]

anybody else heard of this????

[MuscleScience]

anybody else heard of this????

Relaxin is released during ovulation along with estrogen from the corpus luteum of the ovaries. The role of relaxin in humans is not well understood. It is believed however that along with estrogen it causes connective tissues to soften or became more flexible during the early stages of the menstruation and or later if pregnancy occurs starting in the first trimester the levels of relaxin rise until birth. The role in animals is to open up or loosen the pubic symphysis of the pubic bone to allow for an enlargment of the birth canal. It appears that at least in animals that it effects collagen metabolism as well.

Interestingly enought relaxin is also produced in the testis of males, though I have never heard of any effect it may have.

[canttouchthis9]

Thanks musclescience! great info