a prop tren questio

[johnjohny]

just a quick question if taking tren 300 prop 450 and tamox maybe 75mg a week are u more suseptible to geting sick?
And it's wierd soMetimes I pin and the area won't hurt at all and at other times the spot will hurt for days

[inky-e]

just a quick question if taking tren 300 prop 450 and tamox maybe 75mg a week are u more suseptible to geting sick?
And it's wierd soMetimes I pin and the area won't hurt at all and at other times the spot will hurt for days

That used to happen to me with prop...its hit and miss as far as the pain..and for me ..the swelling too...as far as getting sick I wouldn't think so.

[johnjohny]

yeah because I'm sick as shit right now I need to pin again tonight
It's not bad to pin when ur sick??

[magic32]

just a quick question if taking tren 300 prop 450 and tamox maybe 75mg a week are u more suseptible to geting sick?
And it's wierd soMetimes I pin and the area won't hurt at all and at other times the spot will hurt for days

These shouldn't be taken in concert.

There is no direct correlation between illness and aas usage, other than Test Flu which is pseudo-sickness evidenced by its lack of productivity (viral and bacterial evacuating phlegm).

Assuming each shot is from the same supply and thus contains the same composition, sometimes there's no pain because you miss nerves and shoot into a muscle area that has adapted to the presence of excessive fluid. Whereas at other times you may not only hit or shoot into/near nerves, but also into what we call virgin or unadapted muscle tissues. The pain is a result of the muscle's discomfort due to the fluid's spatial displacement.

[Lemonada8]

prop 450? damn thats some concentrated prop... and dont take tamox on cycle, if ur worried about that kind of stuff take letro...

[johnjohny]

I keep hearing that but why not take tamox on cycle??

[johnjohny]

what 450 not enoughof prop it's my first time on aas

[SNUKA]

u do mean 450 of prop a week right?? and tren 300 a week?
what is your gear dosed at that you can come up with these numbers?
when do u plan on injecting? i hope everyday
and nolvadex can make progestrin problems with deca and tren thats why you dont take it together.

[SNUKA]

what 450 not enoughof prop it's my first time on aas

wow just caught this.
you dont take tren on your first cycle and test prop is usually not comfortable for people who dont have injection techniques down. now before any more advice we need some stats like age, weight, goals, body fat, years training, aas and pct knowledge and then lay out an approriate cycle with doses, durations and pct protocol.

[WARMachine]

Damn ive never seen prop at 450... Thats crazy...

I agree with Snuka, we need the stats...

[Mulciber]

[QUOTE=magic32;4186623]These shouldn't be taken in concert.

There is no direct correlation between illness and aas usage, other than Test Flu which is pseudo-sickness evidenced by its lack of productivity (viral and bacterial evacuating phlegm).

QUOTE]

little info..

From what I've gathered Test or "Sust Flu" is caused by your body's reaction - a natural defense mechanism - to the sudden increase in exogenous hormone levels. Its the body's way of trying to "flush" out the foreign entity it perceives is there (just as it does w/ a flu virus). There has also been some connection between high BA content and immune response.
I think the combination of sudden increased hormone levels and a foreign substance being injected into the muscle can cause these symptoms. Some people are sensitive, some arent. Certain people don’t experience it at all and some might just get mild chills (low grade fever) or a runny nose for a few days and not even take much note of it.
you can do some research on test flu and etiocholanolone.
Certainly injecting straight etiocholanolone would doubtless make anyone ill. But etiocholanolone represents only about 20% of the metabolites of testosterone in people. Maybe folks who experience this reaction to testosteone have particularly high levels of 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, the enzyme that converts testosterone into etiocholanolone. Or an isoform of the enzyme that makes the conversion more efficient.

just a thought

[johnjohny]

umm I'm 6"3 275lb
And actually iv been ****ing up the whole time I got the bottles mixed up and if been doing 450 of tren and 300 of prop I hope I didn't **** myself up???
And what is progrstrin????

[Lemonada8]

haha.. id advise to hold off on ur cycle, you shouldnt have a higher bf% than about 15...

[Mulciber]

u do mean 450 of prop a week right?? and tren 300 a week?
what is your gear dosed at that you can come up with these numbers?
when do u plan on injecting? i hope everyday
and nolvadex can make progestrin problems with deca and tren thats why you dont take it together.

Deca and Tren do not aromatize to Progesterone. Deca can aromatize into dihydronandrolone, which is an AR agonist. The PR is stimulated by nandrolone, and can produce a progesterone-like substance; but it's not progesterone; much weaker.
Progesterone is a prolactin agonist(hence the prolactin inhibitors), and both prolactin and progesteron receptors can be found in the mammary gland and can cause gyno which is where prolactin inhibitors come into play but gyno symptoms from these are very rare.
Again, progesterone related gyno is very rare, but in the case a progesterone problem arose, Prog is a E2 agonist so using an anti-e will help. The amount of progesterone would need to be substantial though, and if Test is run at even a lesser dose than Fina or deca, if gyno comes into play, it's most likely still going to be estrogenic
Most of the time, with Deca or tren administration, if you begin to have gyno symptoms, it's more than likely estrogen. Not from direct conversion, but from indirect fluctuations from Prolactin/Test/Estrogen

progestins work via the PR. But their action via the PR does not cause gyno in any direct fashion. Progestins seems to be rather asexual in their characteristics. Progestins can aggravate estrogen related gyno, the current theory being an upgrading effect on the ER.

What is being said is basically that progesterone can only cause or aggravate gyno in the presence of circulating estrogen.


Just a couple of quotes from studie on medline:

"Plasma progesterone was raised in 36 of 50 (72%) men with liver disease compared with 20 healthy male control subjects. Plasma progesterone was significantly higher in men with non-alcoholic cirrhosis with gynaecomastia than those without, but no similar relationship was found in men with alcoholic fatty change and alcoholic cirrhosis. Hyperprolactinaemia was found in 14% of men with liver disease but levels were unrelated to the presence of gynaecomastia.. Increased circulating levels of progesterone and prolactin alone do not explain the development of gynaecomastia in patients with liver disease, but progesterone may be an additional factor acting in association with the known disturbances of other sex steroids. (1)

Progesterone enhances estrogen's stimulation of mammary gland growth, and our findings suggest that progesterone may play a role in the gynecomastia that occurs in men with hyperthyroidism. (2)

This is all we are saying: progesterone/progestins themselves are not capable of causing gyno (study 1), but enhance the action of estrogen, which is typically elevated in hyperthyroidism (study 2).

"True gynecomastia is a condition in which there is an enlargement of the male breast due to an increase in ductal tissue and periductal stroma.[13]"

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle....2/7002/7001/-1

Estrogen receptor knockout mice manifest significantly impaired ductal development, implying that estrogen is key to ductal development, and by definition (see phrase in quotes above) gynecomastia.

Prolactin, progesterone, GH, Estrogen, and IGF-1 are all stimulatory and act in and integrated fashion to initiate the sequence of events that is breast growth.

[johnjohny]

my bf is 17