Double Checking Cycle

[Charger527]

Just about to start a cycle its only basic but just want to make sure i dont miss anything.
Diet feels good with 250g protein 350g carbs 75g fat bout 14500 kj day
Cycle goal: Strength plus bulk.

week 1-2 1000mg test e two at 500mg
week 3-12 500mg test e two at 250mg
wait two weeks then pct
week 1-2 50mg clomid ed 20mg of nolva ed
week 3-4 25mg clomid ed 20 mg nolva ed

im just not 100% if my PCT doeses are right any advice would be great.

Cheers.

[DS21]

Everything looks good, I personally like to add an ai during, or atleast keep one on hand, and I like to use one for PCT.

[blake.varhaug]

your test dosage is high for the beginning. I would suggest keeping it at 500mg of test e a week at 250mgx2 a week for the whole 12 weeks. what are your stats? cycle experience?

[daem]

Why frontload for more than 1 week? You should be fine hitting that 1g up front and then immediately transitioning into 500mg.

I'm also a fan of tapering Nolvadex down from 100mg in this type of a scheme and keeping the clomid dosages constant.

Days 1-7 - 100mg
Days 8-14 - 50mg
Days 15-21 - 20mg

If you do this, you could eliminate the need for an AI in PCT like DS21 suggested...I agree with him that keeping one on hand DURING cycle is important as well.

Good luck!

[Charger527]

Why frontload for more than 1 week? You should be fine hitting that 1g up front and then immediately transitioning into 500mg.

I'm also a fan of tapering Nolvadex down from 100mg in this type of a scheme and keeping the clomid dosages constant.

Days 1-7 - 100mg
Days 8-14 - 50mg
Days 15-21 - 20mg

If you do this, you could eliminate the need for an AI in PCT like DS21 suggested...I agree with him that keeping one on hand DURING cycle is important as well.

Good luck!

Ok cool so only frontload for a week then straight into 500mg. So i should run the clomid at 50 mg for 4 weeks and run the nolva as above for three? or countine the four?

Cheers

[DS21]

Ok cool so only frontload for a week then straight into 500mg. So i should run the clomid at 50 mg for 4 weeks and run the nolva as above for three? or countine the four?

Cheers

I would just front load for the first week, but I would add an ai during or at least have on on hand but definetly add one for pct. I don't know how daem usually dose his pct, but I believe in an ai and a serm for pct, aromasin and nolva would work great.

[LATS60]

IMO, front load the 1st wk too.
I'm not convinced about running nolva at such a high dose for a week, it's a moderate dose medium length cycle.
My choice for an adequate PCT for this cycle would be
Clomid 100/50/50/50.
Nolva 40/20/20/20
Hcg if your nuts shrivel up too much could be used for the last 2wks @ 500iu twice wk.

[DS21]

IMO, front load the 1st wk too.
I'm not convinced about running nolva at such a high dose for a week, it's a moderate dose medium length cycle.
My choice for an adequate PCT for this cycle would be
Clomid 100/50/50/50.
Nolva 40/20/20/20
Hcg if your nuts shrivel up too much could be used for the last 2wks @ 500iu twice wk.

That seems to be the standard pct that most offer here, why is that?

Correct me if I am wrong, but serms like nolva and clomid stop estrogen from binding to various receptors in the body, prevent gyno, but ai's lower the estrogen that is being produced in the body. The way I look at it is if there isn't a large amount of estrogen aromatizing in the body (due to an ai) there is already less of a change of getting gyno, so adding a serm would just help ensure you don't get gyno. I've always thought an ai is more important then a serm in pct, at least that is my opinion, but please help me see it a different way if you feel I am wrong.

[Charger527]

How i understand it is if you use a ai it reduces your gains. because you need estrogen to build muscle.

I will have Letro on hand but was only going to use it should gyno start, is it really needed in PCT?

[DS21]

Letro isn't something I would use on a test only cycle, but I would use or keep on hand arimadex, if you use a small amout it won't hurt your gains.

[LATS60]

That seems to be the standard pct that most offer here, why is that?

Correct me if I am wrong, but serms like nolva and clomid stop estrogen from binding to various receptors in the body, prevent gyno, but ai's lower the estrogen that is being produced in the body. The way I look at it is if there isn't a large amount of estrogen aromatizing in the body (due to an ai) there is already less of a change of getting gyno, so adding a serm would just help ensure you don't get gyno. I've always thought an ai is more important then a serm in pct, at least that is my opinion, but please help me see it a different way if you feel I am wrong.

AI's stop aromatisation of test to estrogen, why use an AI in PCT as well as a SERM? You arent going to start your PCT till two wks after your last shot and you mention above that there will be little aromatisation on cycle (due to an ai) so what is the point of using an aromatase inhibitor when there will be hardly any test to aromatise?
This PCT is bog standard for a medium dose medium length cycle and it works.
It's been used effectively thousands of times, using 100mg of nolva for instance will do no more than 60mg will, honestly, so i'm a firm believer in using the same philosophy i use with steroids and that is; use the least amount you need to get the job done, with PCT it really is the same principal, more is not always better. JMO.

[DS21]

AI's stop aromatisation of test to estrogen, why use an AI in PCT as well as a SERM? You arent going to start your PCT till two wks after your last shot and you mention above that there will be little aromatisation on cycle (due to an ai) so what is the point of using an aromatase inhibitor when there will be hardly any test to aromatise?
This PCT is bog standard for a medium dose medium length cycle and it works.
It's been used effectively thousands of times, using 100mg of nolva for instance will do no more than 60mg will, honestly, so i'm a firm believer in using the same philosophy i use with steroids and that is; use the least amount you need to get the job done, with PCT it really is the same principal, more is not always better. JMO.

I'm not the one that recommended 100mg of nolva, I believe 20mg is all you need to use of nolva per day, at least that is what I've read.

The reason I believe in an ai during pct is your body produces larger amount of estrogen during this time and I believe an ai like aromasin stop 80-90% of estrogen from aromatizing in your body, so I guess my question is why wouldn't you want to use an ai during pct?

[LATS60]

I'm not the one that recommended 100mg of nolva, I believe 20mg is all you need to use of nolva per day, at least that is what I've read.

The reason I believe in an ai during pct is your body produces larger amount of estrogen during this time and I believe an ai like aromasin stop 80-90% of estrogen from aromatizing in your body, so I guess my question is why wouldn't you want to use an ai during pct?

OK, the estrogen that your body is producing at this time is not from the aromatisation of test, so an AI is pretty pointless. The estrogen that is still in your body however can and is reduced using a serm.


PS, i know it wasn't you who mentioned that 100mg nolva, i thought i'd just point out that it will have no more benefit than 60mg.

[daem]

PS, i know it wasn't you who mentioned that 100mg nolva, i thought i'd just point out that it will have no more benefit than 60mg.

I mentioned it

I am one of the few on here that recommends using MORE drugs in PCT than less. Everyone's hypothalamus is different, so I err on the side of caution and estrogenic side prevention.

Personally, I think that tapering dosages of clomid stretches out the recovery process and is what causes the flux in the blood. This is why I recommended 100mg for the first week.

Clomid does weird things to my emotions and my recovery...I hate it!

Standard protocol should be HCG + nolvadex and NOT clomid IMHO.

[LATS60]

I mentioned it

I am one of the few on here that recommends using MORE drugs in PCT than less. Everyone's hypothalamus is different, so I err on the side of caution and estrogenic side prevention.

Personally, I think that tapering dosages of clomid stretches out the recovery process and is what causes the flux in the blood. This is why I recommended 100mg for the first week.

Clomid does weird things to my emotions and my recovery...I hate it!

Standard protocol should be HCG + nolvadex and NOT clomid IMHO.

Well i can't really agree that everyones hypothalmus is different, all we want to do is block the estrogen receptors and that can be achieved as you say with nolva, but i really believe that the 60mg will do that as well as 100mg.
As for clomid, yea the sides can suck, but tapering needs to be done imo due to the long plasma HL of 5 days, you don't want the supressive action on the hypothalmus and pituitary receptors too long because this can be supressive to the switch on of GnRh and that tells the pituatary glands to start producing LH and FSH.
I think this is why it's always best to be cautious in your use of PCT meds and get bloods done regurlarly, this will give a good indication on PCT protocol that works best for you.

[Charger527]

So
Clomid 100/50/50/50.
Nolva 40/20/20/20
with letro on hand is enough?. ill try get arimdex aswell though.

Cheers,

[odix]

for my PCT I ran HCG, with nolva and aromasin. SERM+AI. worked wonders. just my .02, although the HCG should be disregarded cause I didnt use it suff/efficiently

[Charger527]

Is HCG recommended for PCT? its quite hard to find.