6'4, 225lbs, 14%BF. 2nd cycle options?

[streffert]

1st cycle was 12 weeks of 500mg Cyponate M & Th. I also had 30 days of A-50's @ 50mg per day along with milk thistle and arimadex. I completed proper pct and went form 210lbs up to 235 and I have been at a stable 225 now. I eat very clean 4-5k calorories a day, and train 3 on 1 off.

I am going to start my second cycle, I would like another mass cycle, but would like a cutter at then end.

Option 1
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 Deca @ 400-500mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's

Option 2
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 EQ @ 600mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's

I would like a little bit of a cutter at the end say week 12-16 of winnie? Will this do anything at all, I just would like to harden up at the end. I am a hard gainer as you can see below.

Any info would be great!

[streffert]

first 2 pics above #1 was mid cycle #2 was pre cycle.

[seriousmass]

1st cycle was 12 weeks of 500mg Cyponate M & Th. I also had 30 days of A-50's @ 50mg per day along with milk thistle and arimadex. I completed proper pct and went form 210lbs up to 235 and I have been at a stable 225 now. I eat very clean 4-5k calorories a day, and train 3 on 1 off.

I am going to start my second cycle, I would like another mass cycle, but would like a cutter at then end.

Option 1
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 Deca @ 400-500mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's

Option 2
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 EQ @ 600mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's

I would like a little bit of a cutter at the end say week 12-16 of winnie? Will this do anything at all, I just would like to harden up at the end. I am a hard gainer as you can see below.

Any info would be great!

I'd go with

Option 1
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 Deca @ 400-500mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's I'd do Anadrol instead of d-bol

I'd run the winny weeks 12 - 16.... 50mg ED.

That'll be a great bulking cycle.. and then it'll cut you up real nice with the winny. (try and keep BF% as low as possible for winstrol to take full effect.)

I'd also use test-E instead of Cyp.

[Jfew44]

I think you're trying to do too much with your second cycle bro. I'd stick with 12 weeks of test e or cyp at 500mg/week and 10 weeks deca at 500mgs/week. If you wanna throw an oral in at the beginning, that'd be alright too.

What was your pct for the last cycle? With deca you're going to need a more aggressive one. Also, your bodytype is similar to mine before I started AAS, I would recommend posting your diet including macros in the diet section for critique. I always thought I was a hard gainer until I revamped my diet.

[seriousmass]

I think you're trying to do too much with your second cycle bro. I'd stick with 12 weeks of test e or cyp at 500mg/week and 10 weeks deca at 500mgs/week. If you wanna throw an oral in at the beginning, that'd be alright too.

What was your pct for the last cycle? With deca you're going to need a more aggressive one. Also, your bodytype is similar to mine before I started AAS, I would recommend posting your diet including macros in the diet section for critique. I always thought I was a hard gainer until I revamped my diet.

Well if you're saying that d-bol, deca, and test is fine... I don't really see a problem with adding the winny. It's true that it is his second cycle, and he shouldn't need lots of AAS to get results, but IMO backloading that cycle with winstrol would be great.

[Jfew44]

I agree with you, I was just saying because he ran anadrol and test for his first cycle, he would be best off only adding one more compound. Not that it's right or there's only one way to do it, it's just what I've done, 1 for my first, 2 for my second, 3 for my third.

That said, winny would be good to backload the cycle and would def. harden him up, just saying I'd rather know exactly what each compound does to my body so I can make a more informed decision for my next cycle.

[streffert]

Thanks for the great replies so far!

[Mammon]

if you going to use the winny id run it 13-18 if your running the test 16 weeks.
jump right on pct

[streffert]

what are you guys recommending for test amount. can I go 750/wk with 400mg deca?

[Jfew44]

I would keep the test at the same level you just ran it the last cycle to see how the deca works for ya.

[in2shape]

week 1-10 test e or c 500mgs week
week1-10 deca 400-600mgs week
weeks 7/8-12 var @ 50+mgs aweek

then pct ....

id stay the same amount of test add the deca finish with the var ...have you thought about frontloading the test deca instaed of another oral at start ???? this is what id do ...jmo

[in2shape]

week 1-10 test e or c 500mgs week
week1-10 deca 400-600mgs week
weeks 7/8-12 var @ 50+mgs aweek

then pct ....

id stay the same amount of test add the deca finish with the var ...have you thought about frontloading the test deca instaed of another oral at start ???? this is what id do ...jmo... good dimple straight forward 2nd cycle

[seriousmass]

I agree with you, I was just saying because he ran anadrol and test for his first cycle, he would be best off only adding one more compound. Not that it's right or there's only one way to do it, it's just what I've done, 1 for my first, 2 for my second, 3 for my third.

That said, winny would be good to backload the cycle and would def. harden him up, just saying I'd rather know exactly what each compound does to my body so I can make a more informed decision for my next cycle.

Very good point.

[Immortal Soldier]

I'd go with

Option 1
1-16 test C or E a@ 600-750mg/wk
1-12 Deca @ 400-500mg/wk
1-4 30mg of D-bol or 50mg of A-50's I'd do Anadrol instead of d-bol

I'd run the winny weeks 12 - 16.... 50mg ED.

That'll be a great bulking cycle.. and then it'll cut you up real nice with the winny. (try and keep BF% as low as possible for winstrol to take full effect.)

I'd also use test-E instead of Cyp.

How long have you taken off since your 1st cycle ended?

[streffert]

My last ended in january, looking to get started 4/1. Had complete physical and informed my doc of the plan. He would rather see me do it safe than wing it. Bloodwork is normal as well as liver and chloresterol, that he went over with me.
I'm thinking now:

1-16 600mg test-e

1-12 400mg deca

1-4 50mg anadrol

12 or 14 thru 16 or 18 winny?

Pct of clomid 100-50-50 and nolva not sure yet since I only did clomid on first, with no issues, as a matter of fact I felt incredible during pct mental wise.

[WARMachine]

Cycle
1-16 300mgs 2xW Test E
1-14 200mgs 2xW Deca
1-4 50mgs ED Anadrol
16-18 50mgs ED Winn

PCT
Clomid - 100/100/50/50
Nolva - 20/20/20/20

Thats what id do.

Follow Mammons advice, he knows what hes talkin about bro.

btw, nice transition from the last cycle. Big improvements.

[streffert]

Thanks war!
I'm very excited to get started and I appreciate the help with pct numbers. I know mammoth advised to run winny 13-18, since I have never done it before, what can I expect? Is 14-18 sufficient?
Thanks again, I will have to start a thread w/ pics from my first day of lifting in 07 @ 180lbs. I'm so glad I waited for aas until I got up to 210 with proper diet and training!

[seriousmass]

Thanks war!
I'm very excited to get started and I appreciate the help with pct numbers. I know mammoth advised to run winny 13-18, since I have never done it before, what can I expect? Is 14-18 sufficient?
Thanks again, I will have to start a thread w/ pics from my first day of lifting in 07 @ 180lbs. I'm so glad I waited for aas until I got up to 210 with proper diet and training!

4 weeks is fine. So yes, you can run it from 14 - 18.

Expect some VERY dried out joints.

That said, it'll cut you up very nicely.

[JR G lady]

dam I wish i had yur weight Im 6'5 still tryna lean and put muscle, It is so hard tryna lean, I need more of an intense cardio

[streffert]

I do cardio at most 3 times a week after I lift for 20-30 minutes. Its nice to be an ectomorph. I concentrate on diet to stay fit.

[streffert]

Also, just wondering why you guys prefer me to use Enthenate instead of Cyponate? I know they are "similar", not sure if my application rendered a difference.

[Mammon]

dont make a difference.. cyp has a slightly longer halflife.. almost identical.

[streffert]

Also, just wondering why you guys prefer me to use Enthenate instead of Cyponate? I know they are "similar", not sure if my application rendered a difference.

[Mammon]

dont make a difference.. Cyp has a slightly longer halflife.. Almost identical.

............

[J-Dogg]

Most of you cut okay of winny?

I ran it twice and did not work real well, I responded a lot better to anavar, for cutting.

[streffert]

What would be your advice for frontloading instead of the orals?

[Hazard]

My last ended in january, looking to get started 4/1. Had complete physical and informed my doc of the plan. He would rather see me do it safe than wing it. Bloodwork is normal as well as liver and chloresterol, that he went over with me.
I'm thinking now:

1-16 600mg test-e

1-12 400mg deca

1-4 50mg anadrol

12 or 14 thru 16 or 18 winny?

Pct of clomid 100-50-50 and nolva not sure yet since I only did clomid on first, with no issues, as a matter of fact I felt incredible during pct mental wise.

I like this cycle..... Deca always shut me down hard so i really liked running my test longer. Also.... i like to keep my test higher than my deca.

I would definately use nolva in my PCT - 20mg's ED - it's not going to hurt. i'd also look into using adex durring the cycle to keep the water retention down.....

~Haz~

[streffert]

I did run arimadex my first and will certainly do again. But what about frontloading? Do I have to frontload the deca also?

[Hazard]

I did run arimadex my first and will certainly do again. But what about frontloading? Do I have to frontload the deca also?

If i was running Dbol..... i personally wouldn't frontload..... not saying you can't tho

~Haz~

[Mammon]

i prefer a kick over frontloading anyway..

[streffert]

Can I front load the test e the first week: 2x600mg? And then start anadrol @ 50mg weeks 2-5? Has anyone done that or is it one or the other because you won't even see a difference?