My log, my pic, your input appreciated

[Fantomg]

I am posting this for my work-out partner that just placed 1st in his division at west coast NPC show over the weekend.

He is going off all AS for appx 3-4 months to give his body a break and to then start to train for a National – next year.

The obvious goal is to retain as much muscle as possible during down time and to do so starting with a good PCT regiment.

Instead of posting body stats, I’ve provided my pic from Saturday's night show.

Here is what was used weeks 1-4 prior to the show:

1-4 = Test Suspension 100mgs EOD
1-4 = Tren A 75mgs EOD
1-3 = Masteron 100mgs EOD
1-2 = Halotestin 20mgs/day
3-4 = Halotestin 30mgs/day
1-3 = Anavar 25mgs/day
4 = Anavar 50mgs/day
1-3 = Winstrol 100mgs EOD inj
4 = Winstrol 100mgs/Day oral

Arimadex was run at 1mg ED for weeks 1-3, then 2mg ED for week 4
Proviron was: Wk1 -25mgs Wk2 – 60mgs Wk3 – 75mgs Wk4 – 100mgs ED

Show is over – no more AS.
Have: HCG, Nolva, Clen, Clomid (and can pick up about anything else necessary)

Would appreciate some feedback from someone who has serious personal experience with PCT's etc and with maintaining a high level/type of bb physique.

To re-iterate, the question is: What would you run for PCT if you had access to most things and planned on staying clean for several months? He's managed to put on nearly 15lbs since the same show in '06, but always lookin' for better PCT protocols, etc.

[seriousmass]

Was that the only cycle he did prior to the show? or was he cruising / blasting on testosterone prior to 4 weeks out? (because if so you will probably need to look into an extended PCT protocol).

[Fantomg]

I assumed it would be obvious to most but AS prior to this were also of short esters. So I've focused attention to the AS regiment of the last 4 weeks.

[FireGuy]

His glutes and hams could have been tighter but good condition overall. Is he thinking about moving up to Heavyweight for Nationals next fall?

[FireGuy]

BTW, with what you have on hand for PCT you should be good to go.

[Fantomg]

His glutes and hams could have been tighter but good condition overall. Is he thinking about moving up to Heavyweight for Nationals next fall?

Ya know, I think it's a matter of what happens during this "off" time. This is where I see so many take 2 steps back (if they come off at all). HW by then... That'll be some thickness at 5'7". Lol, ya already knew his height, I just digested your comment. What do you think about clen with PCT (in addition to the listed). Seems this PCT is ever evolving, but what looks good on paper doesn't always equate to success in trial.

[FireGuy]

Never used clen for PCT but I can see where it would help in a couple different ways. I would definately hit the HCG for 10-14 days then start in with a solid month of Nolva/Clomid.

You know at 5'7 he might hurt his overall shape trying to come in as Heavyweight. How far under 198 was he here?

[Fantomg]

You know at 5'7 he might hurt his overall shape trying to come in as Heavyweight. How far under 198 was he here?[/QUOTE]

192. So, it's possible to come in at the bottom of HW but might do him better to focus on the top of LH's w/6 more quality lbs. If ya don't mind - 14 days of HCG? How many IU's etc? I've always run it during AS and stopped short of coming off. Started reading posts this morning regarding the subject and it became frustrating as there were so many conflicting suggestions. Where's WarMachine?

[FireGuy]

I think HCG is overlooked too often in PCT. I know Llewellyn touts 2500iu every other day for 16 days to really get LH levels back fast. I ran it at 500iu every day for 20 days and it really helped kickstart things.

[Fantomg]

Thanks. I think I was using 1000iu eod back in the 90's. I told him I did well with that dose. It just seemed like that has been getting shot down on this site often, stating that you're in a worse position (shut down) after you stop HCG post cycle.

Although my friend came in 12lbs heavier from the same show in 06, he seems to get stuck- regardless, at 215lbs (off AS) each time. This is where we thought it might be due to lack of a better PCT program because everything else has improved ie; diet, AS, training, etc.

[Fantomg]

His glutes and hams could have been tighter but good condition overall. Is he thinking about moving up to Heavyweight for Nationals next fall?

Sorry FiredGuy1 - His weight of 215 is what he maxes out at running gear. He seems to get stuck at that weight. However, he eats clean year round and always has all his abs. His mainstay for carbs has also always been rice. Wonder if he switches to potatoes or yams ,etc will it pack on more weight? This guy was 125lbs 6 years ago.After researching posts all day regarding PCT, the decision (partly due to your input of "personal" experience) is to run 500iu/day for 2weeks of HCG now, then Clomid Nolva for 4 at 100/100/50/50 and 40/40/20/20.
Thanks for your response. I like "personal" experience responses much better than "this is what literature says".

[celticd]

as firedguy1 was saying william llwelyns PoWeR PCT works pretty well and alot of ppl are using his protocol now,
ppl argue that hcg suppress the LH which is untrue as LH levels increase almost instantly with the cessation of aas use,this study proves it works so thats why i use it

my pct.................
nolva 20mg ed x 45
clomid 100mg x 10 days, 50mg x 20 days
hcg 1250iu eod x 16days/ 8shots total
clen 40mcg -80mcg 2on/off/on

also if u look into the power pct you will find the following results with the same pct as above except the hcg was dosed at 2500iu over 16days
the mean values of the test subjects returned to very similar levels after there pct treatment, so it looks like a standard cycle can take upto 45days to repair HPGA

[celticd]

as firedguy1 was saying william llwelyns PoWeR PCT works pretty well and alot of ppl are using his protocol now,
ppl argue that hcg suppress the LH which is untrue as LH levels increase almost instantly with the cessation of aas use,this study proves it works so thats why i use it

my pct.................
nolva 20mg ed x 45
clomid 100mg x 10 days, 50mg x 20 days
hcg 1250iu eod x 16days/ 8shots total
clen 40mcg -80mcg 2on/off/on

also if u look into the power pct you will find the following results with the same pct as above except the hcg was dosed at 2500iu over 16days
the mean values of the test subjects returned to very similar levels after there pct treatment, so it looks like a standard cycle can take upto 45days to repair HPGA

[Fantomg]

I appreciate your help celticd. Checking out Llewelyns Power PCT now.

[mouse78]

i aways start pct with a 5000iu inject of hcg than takle a 2500iu shot every 5th day i do this for a totle of 30 days,

clen is great way to keep mass between cycles. Its not just a fatloss agent but also a verru strong anti catabolic agent. it will help keep cortsion recepters occupied so that they can not eat away any muscle mass. you can take the clen for 3 moths without any prob i take 5 tabs of 0.02 per day on a 2 day on and 2 day of cycle.

Your partner looks pretty damn good to me bro.

[Fantomg]

Thank you Mouse78. I suspected this was the case with clen use during pct and cortisol levels. I knew there were those like yourself that might vouch for it because of personal experience. I think PCT for him is due if he wants to improve for the Nationals. I see so many go stagnant and even get injured because they just won't give their system the break it needs to recuperate. Thanks for the compliment - I have to say the same to you....Damn! look at those quads!