experimental short cycle advice....

[dazbo]

Hi,

I work offshore, and taking things like needles etc is becoming more and more difficult. I have decided to do a short experimental cycle for my cutting aid.

I have my diet sorted, although I will post this up in a seperate post on the diet section for ppl to comment on and give me advice. My cutting has been going well so far and I am at around 180lbs, 10%bf, 28-30" waist and 44-46" chest, arms around 17" flexed.

I have just came back to using steroid.com and after a quick look at the "Unofficial cutting" guide, I discovered that my diet plan matches up to that almost exactly, which I was pleased at.

Anyway, my cycle. I dont want to do a big 12-16 weeker, its hard offshore and stressfull taking things with me.

I just know that I DO need a cycle to rip me up that bit more, without losing any muscle.

Here's the "Experiment" -

4-6 wks 80-100mg anavar
4-6 wks biweekly of HCG (Using the guide on here for dosage but I think it was 500mcg per shot??)
10mg Nolva daily
4wks IGF-1 LR3 (Something I have spare to use that helped with fat burning previously)

Fat burning - Clen/T3 combo (With caffeine mornings and pre-workout??)

Supps - Animal pak twice daily, glutamine twice daily, Vit-C 4g daily. Maybe replace caffeine with a fat burner such as animal cuts??

Diet is high protein, less than 100g carbs (Sugars post WO,morning complex carbs, veg/fruit during day sometimes)

I also have spare HGH, from an unfinished (Due to working abroad) 6month cycle. I know it should be a 6month cycle, and generally 3month bare min but, would it really do any harm to add this into my cycle for 2 months?? Would I need to do PCT? If I did then could I just do 2 weeks more of nolva/hcg after the Anavar has finished?

I know I will get mixed opinions on this, but Im open to criticism but please bare in mind, this is an experiment, I cant see in my head why it wont work and I will more than likely give it a go anyway, unless someone points out something unhealthy or dangerous for me??

Thanks everyone and I look forward to your replies!

P.S. Im 27 training well for 8years almost none stop apart from a poor last year due to work, home and injury problems!!

[TITANIUM]

Your @ 10% BF, what are you goals here?

I would be looking at a bulking cycle.

How tall are you?

[Critical Mass]

HCG for a anavar only cycle? Is that really necessary? I dont know if you need hcg,but gonna let someone else comment on that.

[The Deuce]

I always include HCG with anything that messes with the HPTA !!

Which is everything.


As far as BULKING CYCLE.. not really quite sure if just a VAR ONLY CYCLE will work for you for just Bulking.. I suppose if your diet is spot on.. maybe...

Nolvadex at 10mgs ED is UNNECESSARY !! No sense.. why would you think to use it anyways??

Var is definitely not known for causing Gyno symptoms as far as I know.. never has for me...

Nolvadex at 20mgs ED for 4 weeks after the VAR Cycle is a MUST... just to make sure everything is back on track.. heck throw in Clomid at 50mgs ED also just as a precaution...

I am just not a fan NOR do I like giving advice on ORAL only cycles... but people do them, and some like them, and MOST are left disappointed either stating that they think their gear was BUNK or that they lost all their gains after cessation of the taking the oral because they never followed up with a PCT.. Which YES you need after any Cycle.. Oral or otherwise....


No onto the HCG .. I would do 250iu's Twice a week.. JUST WHILE YOU ARE ON THE VAR !! Not after... Then proceed to run a small PCT but you need to run one.. like i said.. honestly you could probably get away with 20mgs of Nolva and 50mg of Clomid...

But here's my thinking.. You are injecting HCG why not go for the GUSTO and just do a TEST only cycle for 12-14 weeks at 500mgs EW with Hcg protocol like i stated above.. for either 14-16 weeks, then start a PCT 2 weeks after you last shot... Nolva 40 for 4 weeks... Clomid 100mg for 4 weeks.. TRUST ME.. You will be a lot effin happier you did THAT than a VAR ONLY CYCLE... JMHO.

[TITANIUM]

No need for the HCG.IMHO

Best

T

[The Deuce]

You really Think so T??

[dazbo]

Thanks for these replies guys, especially the duece! I am on a course at the mo and just came on to quickly check my posts on here, but I will reply later properly and shed some light on some of the questions and try to clear a few things up as to why I am doing this, or planning to do this this way instead of a full cycle!

Thanks again

Darren

[dazbo]

Right here goes, Ill try and explain my thinking on all of this and why Im doing things this way.

Basically, over the last 4 years, barring one year (Last year) I have done a cycle per yr. as you can read from my posts, I read up a lot on things before hand, and plan them all well. Anyway, basically what I am trying to say is that no matter how good my pct is (Even when I used HCG/Clom/Nolva/test complexes etc) I could not keep my gains. Since about the age of 22 (27 now) Ive been hovering around the 13st mark, even now, thats where Im at. Body composition roughly the same or there abouts. Anyway, Ivealmost gave up with full length cycles and full PCT because of this and would like to try something different.

Also, with me working offshore, our bags get checked by hand, and also scanned in the xray machine. Ive decided the best thng to do is gradually take my needles etc onto the rig, store them there and then even IF I get caught one time, they cant do much about me having just needles etc. Either way tho, I want to limit the things I take - and big intramuscular needles are not so easy to hide compared to small insulin type ones. So thats the part of it - of only sticking with HCG/HGH/IGF LR3 - small pins only needed.

I would like to just try using Anavar alone, as all I want to do is maintain muscle while ripping down cos if I go any lower in size than I am now, Ill get scared and jump back into bulking again like I normally do! haha

The porob with Var alone tho obv is my HTPA - once I use something external, it really affects me and causes the usual probs associated with it. So, I thought I would stick HCG in to keep my natural levels raised, normal or above normal. I also wanted to include HCG as a main part because I dont want to have the drop in test, only having to raise it back up in the weeks following! I dont like that period for the negs of having low test. To be honest, I would like to ideally gain a few lbs of quality muscle on this so I will really try to keep my calories and macros right and not go too low, eat the right things at the right times etc.

Once Ive reached my target BF%, then I will keep up with all the cardio Ive been doing - that mainly being boxing - and then fitness levels will go flying up following it all too. Then if all this works, I may choose to do a bulking cycle, but keeping my training the same to increase my finss further, Ill just alter my diet.

Think I might have gone into things too much here???!?

So - no test so theres no PCT and associated sides, Var to rip up, HCG to keep natural test levels high to help further, and HGH/IGF as a fat burning, top up seeming as tho I have it there?!! Maybe not need the HGH so much I dont know???

Let me know guys and thanks again

Daz

[chuckt12345]

no need for the hcg.imho

best

t

x2..

[dazbo]

Not really understanding the theory of no HCG cos Im putting ext hormone (VAR) into me, that will stop my own production immediately, then meaning that I will need to do a full PCT as well as the low test probs (Hard ons, tits etc). Plus, studies indicate something like a 700% boost in normal test levels from one big shot of HCG (Dont remember figs) so I was hoping that I could keep my test levels naturally (Well with HCG naturally!) higher than even normal levels - perhaps twice as much???

[Dukkit]

eh, im the fence on this one.

id say you wouldnt need the hcg for such a quick and weak cycle. long as you do proper pct after. and ive never heard anyone complain that they were shut down hard from var.

just have a strong pct lined up. which is easy and cheap. and your gold

soooo this is part of a cutting diet/cycle?

then id offer the advice to switch your "sugars pwo" to some oats or fruit instead. itll help with the cutting. i also throw in casien or cottage cheese in my pwo. with a 50/50 ratio to my whey.

[ted666]

your trying to cut down from 10% bf ? like stated in a previous reply i would be bulking

[dazbo]

Dukkit, thanks for that post. I really dont know about the lack of HCG mind?? Just scared of the PCT side, and the negs with it all. I know sum ppl say anything, no matter the amount, will shut u down, and others say it takes a while depending on the substance, maybe need to find some definate answers on this. Thought thatHCG would aid strength/training/fat burning etc also.

As for diet, I can try that, I normal just half the amount of sugars PWO, something Ive always wondered about while cutting. What about the casein tho, what is the idea to that one?? Slow release so that I have protein coming in constantly?? I normally save that for bedtime? Although, I have just put an order in for some Pharma6 protein which has a mix of proteins in that i was going to try for the above reason, constantly having some protein going into my body that way - guess its the same as using casein/cottage cheese right?

Thanks, and yes this is part of a cutting diet/cycle mate, been cutting now for about 10 weeks.

If anyone can send me an EXCELLENT FULL length (8-12wk) cutting cycle, that will lean bulk also, that would be great and maybe, just maybe, I might think about that also, as another option if ppl think that would be the better way to go. Not being hypocritical, just open to ideas right now!

thanks

[Vitruvian-Man]

I would never use var for a 4 week cycle.

Especially for just cutting.

What results are you expecting to gain from a 28 day cycle of 80mg? Cuz honestly they aren't going to be much. Slightly harder perhaps... maybe a bit of gained definition.

BTW, I wouldn't bother using HCG. (but i think that's already been covered)

(I didn't read any of your posts... they are WAY too long. If you give me the cole's notes edition I would be glad to answer any other questions. I'm not going to sit here and read your essay responses though )

[dazbo]

Ye Ted, especially after seeing the fitness models on some beach show on tv just now, I defo want to rip down more. I want that chisselled look, where my skin is tight round my abs/pecs and nipples point right down! Ive put a pic on from when I last cut down, this was 2007. Im close to that now, so I think 10% will be about right?? I hold fat more on my torso but arms and legs have very little and are always lean.

I say 8% but maybe les?!? 6% at lowest!?

Once Ive got myself t the body fat level Im happy with, then Ive achieved a goal, I then want to try for a cover of mens health or somethng, just to say thats something Ive done in my lifetime. Although, Im very shy in front of cameras so its even more of a challenge!!

Anyway, once Ive managed that, then Ill bulk up to around 200lbs and then cut again down to a hopefully, 188-190lbs, then Ive reached my life goal

[Vitruvian-Man]

^^ You have a great base bro..

If you want to harden up then I would do this (extend cycle, give anavar it's time to work):

Anavar (weeks 1 - 8) @ 80 - 100mg ED
T3 (weeks 1 - 8) @ 40mcg ED

If you want to add clen.. feel free. Same goes to HCG. (i'm assuming you know proper protocols for both.)

Good luck.

[dazbo]

hahaha I knew they were too long! This is the hard thing about these forums, U either write too much or too little. If you write a shortened version, then ppl say "Well we cant answer ur Qs cos we aint been told this, and that...." U also get replies that dont really apply cos u have posted too little and they misunderstand what you want from things!

basically, Im at around 10% Bf, 5'9", 180LBS, 27yr old and 10yrs training. My goal is 190lbs, and 6-8% BF ultimately, but for now - 180lbs (Or above) and 6-8% BF. And I want to try an experimental 4-6 weeker with Var, using HCG so that I dont have to do pct, and dont have the negs of zero naturaly test levels.

If you have a great cycle that could get me to my final goal, I would consider it?!?!?!?!?

Thanks

[dazbo]

SOrry Vit, u posted before I posted that last one!! Ill read it now.......

[dazbo]

Thanks for that Vit, I will probs stick with something very similar to that then! Providing I can afford that much Var cos its bloody £1 per 10mg tablet for me!! Thats near £500 just for that alone!?!? Otherwise, I would up my amount of Var to probs above 100 also, instead of my original 80!

Will have to try and find it cheaper, or get bulk buy frommy supplier lol

[dazbo]

P.S. Does anyone know of any other research sites, besides ar-r??? PM me.....

[Dukkit]

Dukkit, thanks for that post. I really dont know about the lack of HCG mind?? Just scared of the PCT side, and the negs with it all. I know sum ppl say anything, no matter the amount, will shut u down, and others say it takes a while depending on the substance, maybe need to find some definate answers on this. Thought thatHCG would aid strength/training/fat burning etc also.

As for diet, I can try that, I normal just half the amount of sugars PWO, something Ive always wondered about while cutting. What about the casein tho, what is the idea to that one?? Slow release so that I have protein coming in constantly?? I normally save that for bedtime? Although, I have just put an order in for some Pharma6 protein which has a mix of proteins in that i was going to try for the above reason, constantly having some protein going into my body that way - guess its the same as using casein/cottage cheese right?

Thanks, and yes this is part of a cutting diet/cycle mate, been cutting now for about 10 weeks.

If anyone can send me an EXCELLENT FULL length (8-12wk) cutting cycle, that will lean bulk also, that would be great and maybe, just maybe, I might think about that also, as another option if ppl think that would be the better way to go. Not being hypocritical, just open to ideas right now!

thanks

i agree with Vit Man on extending the cycle to get the most out of it.

also edit your prices... no price discussion allowed here

yes the idea of the casien/cottage cheese is to keep a steady supply of protein coming in pwo until your ppwo meal. ive been doing it this way for last 7 months or so and its def helped.

syntha 6 is basically the same. you could use that before bed depending on the amount of specific proteins and macros. if not then post workout would work too
except food is cheaper. lol

you say your scared of PCT sides. but as stated... anavar is a mild compound. yes its a compound nonetheless which has the ability to fully shut you down. but its not going to shut down so hard that your PCT is going to be that rough to cause such sides.

ive ran 20 weeks of deca (albeit at 300mg) (yes i ran test) with no hcg during that whole time... and my pct was fine. no sides.

if you absolutely think you need hcg. then run the 8 weeks of var

then only run the hcg the last 2 weeks of cycle. then start your pct.
thatll be enough to kick your nuts into gear and help start your pct

[dazbo]

OK thanks again.

I was thinking of the following based on what you have all said so far....

wks 1-8 - Anavar up to maybe 100mcg/day
wk 7-8 - HCG biweekly
wks 1-8 - Clen/T3 (Cycled, or using Benadryl and monitoring temp etc.)
wks 1-4 maybe IGF-1???????????????? (Its there to use and Im sure I lost BF last time!?)

MAIN QUESTION THOUGH - Would I lose too much muscle while on the T3 when I am only using Anavar as my AAS??

Supplement wise, I will obviously be taking Animal Pak vits, plus Taurine as req'd, question is, would I be ok to use a herbal diuretic whilst also using the clen/T3 ???

Thanks!

[syd-bloke]

OK thanks again.

I was thinking of the following based on what you have all said so far....

wks 1-8 - Anavar up to maybe 100mcg/day
wk 7-8 - HCG biweekly
wks 1-8 - Clen/T3 (Cycled, or using Benadryl and monitoring temp etc.)
wks 1-4 maybe IGF-1???????????????? (Its there to use and Im sure I lost BF last time!?)

MAIN QUESTION THOUGH - Would I lose too much muscle while on the T3 when I am only using Anavar as my AAS??

Supplement wise, I will obviously be taking Animal Pak vits, plus Taurine as req'd, question is, would I be ok to use a herbal diuretic whilst also using the clen/T3 ???

Thanks!

Depends on what you eat. Once on T3, you need to change your current diet no matter how good it is. Also looking at your photo, you need to take some test while cutting otherwise you be so skinny. This way you make sure T3&clen work their magic while you maintain muscle. IGF didnt work for me. Although blood test showed increase in IGF but no change was noted in my body shape. Maybe it depends what you stack it with. Good luck mate.

[BJJ]

OK thanks again.

I was thinking of the following based on what you have all said so far....

wks 1-8 - Anavar up to maybe 100mcg/day
wk 7-8 - HCG biweekly
wks 1-8 - Clen/T3 (Cycled, or using Benadryl and monitoring temp etc.)
wks 1-4 maybe IGF-1???????????????? (Its there to use and Im sure I lost BF last time!?)

MAIN QUESTION THOUGH - Would I lose too much muscle while on the T3 when I am only using Anavar as my AAS??

Supplement wise, I will obviously be taking Animal Pak vits, plus Taurine as req'd, question is, would I be ok to use a herbal diuretic whilst also using the clen/T3 ???

Thanks!

Not much to say, just have a look if interested.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403234

In any case, be aware so far I have used 60/70 mg ed with good results and needed no hcg or nolva.
Regarding pct, the base for me is clomid and in case I have nolva on hand.
Good luck

[elpropiotorvic]

Why caffeine with clen ?

[Lean1038]

Why caffeine with clen ?

Exactly. Choose one or alternate weekly. M-F works best IME.