1st pics

[gbrice75]

Age 34
5'11
195lbs
BF % - guessing around 20%, but hopefully you can tell me after seeing my pics! PLEASE GO EASY! This is the first time I'm posting these anywhere. They're from around October, i'm hoping to have put on another pound or 2 of muscle since.

My immediate goal is 200lbs at around 10% bodyfat. Clearly I have a long way to go, but i've been going for a year straight and still have the hunger.

[Little Herc]

Looking like you coming along well. Good Job. How long you been lifting? My goal is 200lbs 10% BF also. However I'm 5'7 and not gonna hit it till after first cycle next summer

[gbrice75]

Thanks Herc. I've been lifting for 1 year, but started out very overweight at 255lbs. I don't know if this is good progress for an entire year, I would love to know what you all think?

[terraj]

Down 60 pounds in year and you got some beef to carry around.

Fvcking awesome work!

[gbrice75]

Down 60 pounds in year and you got some beef to carry around.

Fvcking awesome work!

Thanks! In terms of muscle growth, do you think after a year what I have is decent, or is it lagging? I know you can't see where I started, I just mean in general. I feel like I should be alot bigger than this after a year, I don't see much development, especially in the chest, shoulders and back. Ok, that's pretty much my entire upper body!

[oscarjones]

Niiiice farmer's tan ; )

Pump up da cardio and you'll be ripped.

[benny_jerry]

cant help with the bf% but your coming along nicly mate.

[Dont wanna be old]

Look good friend . I don't think you have far to go . Especially if you dropped 50 lbs . Another 10 lbs fat is nothing .

[Rockin Z28]

i would say you're on the good side of 20% BF, you look more 17ish imo

[terraj]

Thanks! In terms of muscle growth, do you think after a year what I have is decent, or is it lagging? I know you can't see where I started, I just mean in general. I feel like I should be alot bigger than this after a year, I don't see much development, especially in the chest, shoulders and back. Ok, that's pretty much my entire upper body!

You are carrying more beef then most guys after one year of training.

Arms look good.

Have your workouts been improving in terms of strength or intensity? Do you think that you have plateaued in muscle growth?

[gbrice75]

You are carrying more beef then most guys after one year of training.

Arms look good.

Have your workouts been improving in terms of strength or intensity? Do you think that you have plateaued in muscle growth?

Thanks everybody!

@ Terraj - thanks for the feedback. I don't know why when I look at myself, I still see a 'skinny fat' body... body dysmorphia? Who knows!

To answer your questions - I guess I can say my workouts have progressively improved over the year. Weight on all exercises has definitely gone up, but by no means every week or anything close to that (which i've heard people claim has consistently happened for them) - more like every month or so, give or take a few weeks.

I feel like I have plateaued in muscle growth. That's hard to believe though considering I don't have anything close to the body of a bodybuilder - I mean there's so much room for improvement it's unimaginable that I could plateau at this point.

I did just change up my diet pretty drastically, so i'll re-evaluate in a month and see if/how things are progressing. I was basically getting about 120-150g protein daily (i'm 195lbs, way too low!!) and probably 200-300g carbs - I am now on 300g+ of protein per day, and 50-100g carbs. I'm making up some of the extra calories with good fats such as avacado and almonds. I'm around 2200 calories/day - that could be another reason for the (my perceived) lack of growth - too few cals, but I do have considerable bodyfat to lose as well and don't want to sacrifice that goal.

[terraj]

Thanks everybody!

@ Terraj - thanks for the feedback. I don't know why when I look at myself, I still see a 'skinny fat' body... body dysmorphia? Who knows!

To answer your questions - I guess I can say my workouts have progressively improved over the year. Weight on all exercises has definitely gone up, but by no means every week or anything close to that (which i've heard people claim has consistently happened for them) - more like every month or so, give or take a few weeks.

I feel like I have plateaued in muscle growth. That's hard to believe though considering I don't have anything close to the body of a bodybuilder - I mean there's so much room for improvement it's unimaginable that I could plateau at this point.

I did just change up my diet pretty drastically, so i'll re-evaluate in a month and see if/how things are progressing. I was basically getting about 120-150g protein daily (i'm 195lbs, way too low!!) and probably 200-300g carbs - I am now on 300g+ of protein per day, and 50-100g carbs. I'm making up some of the extra calories with good fats such as avacado and almonds. I'm around 2200 calories/day - that could be another reason for the (my perceived) lack of growth - too few cals, but I do have considerable bodyfat to lose as well and don't want to sacrifice that goal.

Well, what do you want as your short term goal? Loss fat or more beef?
Very hard to get both at the same time bro....

2200 cal a day for your weight....man, that is nothing, it's a weight loss diet.

Are you still dropping fat?

Sounds like you have been on a long road and patience is wearing thin.


You are doing awesome!

[stevey_6t9]

bf id say 17% keep up the cardio. keep kcals the same. personally keep it steady til ur happy with ur bf and then clean bulk to reach your goals.

[gbrice75]

Well, what do you want as your short term goal? Loss fat or more beef?
Very hard to get both at the same time bro....

2200 cal a day for your weight....man, that is nothing, it's a weight loss diet.

Are you still dropping fat?

Sounds like you have been on a long road and patience is wearing thin.


You are doing awesome!

Honestly, I haven't dropped (or gained) a single pound in months. That's why I made this drastic change in my diet, obviously whatever I was doing worked well in the beginning but has run it's course.

I'm very hopeful that this change will kickstart things again and bring some positive results. Yes, I realize it's hard (if not near impossible) to both lose bodyfat and gain lean mass. My immediate goal would depend on all of your feedback - which would it make more sense (and what would be more efficient) to do first - cut or bulk? My feeling is if I cut/lose bodyfat first, I have a clean slate to work with in regards to bulking with lean mass. If I bulk first, I will have even more bodyfat to deal with when it comes time to cut. My logic could be off here, i'd love to hear your opinions!

[gbrice75]

bf id say 17% keep up the cardio. keep kcals the same. personally keep it steady til ur happy with ur bf and then clean bulk to reach your goals.

Pretty much the same thing i've been thinking, I just need to evaluate in a month and see if any bodyfat loss occured, otherwise i'm just wasting time and will need to refine my diet AGAIN.

[gbrice75]

I know this would be better posted in the diet section (and in fact it is), but I wanted to post my diet here so you have the complete picture of my body and diet. Critiques, advice, etc. are all welcome!

4:45am - 2 (whole) hard boiled eggs, 1 premier protein shake - 42g protein, 10g fat - 300 calories
5:45-7:15 - WORKOUT

7:15am - Whey protein in skim milk, fat free yogurt, fat free cottage cheese w/ pineapple - 48g protein, 46g (simple) carbs - 410 calories

10:15am - 8oz ground turkey - 48g protein, 16g fat - 336 calories

1:15pm - 8oz chicken or fish, 1/2 cup avacado - 48g protein, 13g fat - 309 calories

4:15pm - 8oz ground turkey - 48g protein, 16g fat - 336 calories

7:15pm - 8oz chicken or fish, fiborous veggies or salad - 48g protein, (estimated) 30g carbs - 312 calories
10:15pm - Premier Protein Shake - 30g protein, 160 calories

So i'm at roughly 310g protein, 75g carbs, 55g fat daily, totaling around 2000-2200 calories, give or take. Let the suggestions and critiques ensue!!

[Rockin Z28]

after about a year of training gains will become fairly slow, the drastic diet change will help aid things along, keep goin natural for another year i'd say and see where you're at, sometimes those darn genetics get in the way

[terraj]

I know this would be better posted in the diet section (and in fact it is), but I wanted to post my diet here so you have the complete picture of my body and diet. Critiques, advice, etc. are all welcome!

4:45am - 2 (whole) hard boiled eggs, 1 premier protein shake - 42g protein, 10g fat - 300 calories
5:45-7:15 - WORKOUT

7:15am - Whey protein in skim milk, fat free yogurt, fat free cottage cheese w/ pineapple - 48g protein, 46g (simple) carbs - 410 calories

10:15am - 8oz ground turkey - 48g protein, 16g fat - 336 calories

1:15pm - 8oz chicken or fish, 1/2 cup avacado - 48g protein, 13g fat - 309 calories

4:15pm - 8oz ground turkey - 48g protein, 16g fat - 336 calories

7:15pm - 8oz chicken or fish, fiborous veggies or salad - 48g protein, (estimated) 30g carbs - 312 calories
10:15pm - Premier Protein Shake - 30g protein, 160 calories

So i'm at roughly 310g protein, 75g carbs, 55g fat daily, totaling around 2000-2200 calories, give or take. Let the suggestions and critiques ensue!!

Hmmm...I am not a diet guru, but I would drop those premier shakes, their ingredients look like all concentrates, get a higher quailty whey ( Isolate) for your PWO.
Your Breakfast- replace shakes with egg whites.
Your 10.15, 1.15 and 4.15 I would add some fiborous veggies or salad.

Whats your workout look like?

[gbrice75]

Hmmm...I am not a diet guru, but I would drop those premier shakes, their ingredients look like all concentrates, get a higher quailty whey ( Isolate) for your PWO.
Your Breakfast- replace shakes with egg whites.
Your 10.15, 1.15 and 4.15 I would add some fiborous veggies or salad.

Whats your workout look like?

Terraj - I don't use the premier shake PWO - I already use a whey powder and mix into skim milk.

The egg white for breakfast are going to be tough - i'm already having a hard time cramming down 2 whole eggs at 4:45am, but the amount of egg whites needed (7 or 8 in addition to the 2 whole eggs) to make up the 30g of protein the shake provides would be near impossible for me - i'd heave it all back up and wind up with nothing!

Good suggestion about the 3 meals - I do need to round them out with some veggies.

My workout is as follows:

Monday and Thursday - Chest and Tri's
Tuesday and Friday - Back and Bi's (and shoulders on Friday as well)
Wednesday - Legs and Shoulders

Chest:
Flat Bench Press - 3 sets to failure
Incline Bench Press - 3 sets to failure
Incline Dumbell Fly's - 3 sets to failure
Pec Deck (if I have time) - 3 sets to failure

Tri's:
Overhead Tricep Press (EZ Curl Bar) - 3 sets to failure
Tricep Pressdowns (pulley) - 3 sets to failure
Tricep pushdowns (on machine) - 3 sets to failure

Back:
Medium Grip Pullups - 3 sets to failure
Lat pulldowns (varying grips starting wide) - 3 sets to failure
Seated Row's - 3 sets to failure

Biceps:
Preacher Curls - 3 sets to failure
Barbell Curls - 3 sets to failure

Legs:
Squats (smith), Lunges (smith), or Leg Press - 3 sets to failure
Leg Curls - 3 sets to failure
Calf Raises - 3 sets to failure

Shoulders:
Barbell Press (not behind the neck) - 3 sets to failure
Seated Dumbell Press - 3 sets to failure
Dumbell Lateral Raises - 3 sets to failure
Dumbell Shrugs - 3 sets to failure
Rear Deltoid Fly's (reverse pec deck) - 3 sets to failure

I know the shoulder workout is only a day of rest in between - it's hard to work out this routine and get everything in, but i want to maintain doing each muscle group twice a week. When I do once a week, I feel like it's WAY too little and not getting enough stimulation.

What do you think?

[DCI]

Great work man. Been there and done that I am after loosing a heap of weight and then gained it back in double in muscle it can be done just need to keep the head down and train.

[terraj]

Terraj - I don't use the premier shake PWO - I already use a whey powder and mix into skim milk.

The egg white for breakfast are going to be tough - i'm already having a hard time cramming down 2 whole eggs at 4:45am, but the amount of egg whites needed (7 or 8 in addition to the 2 whole eggs) to make up the 30g of protein the shake provides would be near impossible for me - i'd heave it all back up and wind up with nothing!

Good suggestion about the 3 meals - I do need to round them out with some veggies.

My workout is as follows:

Monday and Thursday - Chest and Tri's
Tuesday and Friday - Back and Bi's (and shoulders on Friday as well)
Wednesday - Legs and Shoulders

Chest:
Flat Bench Press - 3 sets to failure
Incline Bench Press - 3 sets to failure
Incline Dumbell Fly's - 3 sets to failure
Pec Deck (if I have time) - 3 sets to failure

Tri's:
Overhead Tricep Press (EZ Curl Bar) - 3 sets to failure
Tricep Pressdowns (pulley) - 3 sets to failure
Tricep pushdowns (on machine) - 3 sets to failure

Back:
Medium Grip Pullups - 3 sets to failure
Lat pulldowns (varying grips starting wide) - 3 sets to failure
Seated Row's - 3 sets to failure

Biceps:
Preacher Curls - 3 sets to failure
Barbell Curls - 3 sets to failure

Legs:
Squats (smith), Lunges (smith), or Leg Press - 3 sets to failure
Leg Curls - 3 sets to failure
Calf Raises - 3 sets to failure

Shoulders:
Barbell Press (not behind the neck) - 3 sets to failure
Seated Dumbell Press - 3 sets to failure
Dumbell Lateral Raises - 3 sets to failure
Dumbell Shrugs - 3 sets to failure
Rear Deltoid Fly's (reverse pec deck) - 3 sets to failure

I know the shoulder workout is only a day of rest in between - it's hard to work out this routine and get everything in, but i want to maintain doing each muscle group twice a week. When I do once a week, I feel like it's WAY too little and not getting enough stimulation.

What do you think?

I'm not going to say that split is bad, each body reacts differently, if that split works for you...then so be it.

But, it has stopped working right?

How long have you been running it?

The thing about the body is the fvcker has this adaptation ability, which means you need to mix up your routine. Some people will change every 6 weeks, others will change each time they hit the same body part ( high rep/ low heavy rep), or change when they see gains stop.

For me, your split would be way over training.
I could not hit a large group more then once a week...5 days at the least. Body grows when it rests...

Where the cardio fit in your routine?

Legs - stick with squats
Chest- drop pec deck....fvcks your shoulders
Tris- try a close grip bench...or I like reverse grip....these are for mass, kick bac and tri push downs are for fitness models.
Back- Drop the lat pull down, you get more if you focus on pull ups, add another rowing movement, or deads
Shoulders- drop one of the pressing movements. Not been a dick- but, your shoulders are lagging the rest of your upper body. Maybe they are getting to much work....

What do you mean by ( Three sets to failure)? Is that each set to failure? With increasing weight/ decreasing reps?

[terraj]

Looking at the diet again.

I understand that you are staying away from the carbs.....but I would add carbs on the work days, at least for breakfast and PWO.....some oats would be good. You got to fuel those muscles..

Try for real food at breakfast, any clean protien would be better then the shake.

[gbrice75]

I'm not going to say that split is bad, each body reacts differently, if that split works for you...then so be it.

But, it has stopped working right? It's hard to say - I always think what i'm doing isn't working, so i'm the worst judge of myself. I DO feel like I should be further along however.

How long have you been running it? I just started running this 2 weeks ago - but my previous routine was very similar and I was on it (with small changes here and there) for almost a year.

The thing about the body is the fvcker has this adaptation ability, which means you need to mix up your routine. Some people will change every 6 weeks, others will change each time they hit the same body part ( high rep/ low heavy rep), or change when they see gains stop.

For me, your split would be way over training.
I could not hit a large group more then once a week...5 days at the least. Body grows when it rests... This is one of my MAJOR dilemma's - and brings me back to the same question all the time. What is better - each muscle group once or twice per week? I've tried once per week and felt like it was forever before I was training that same group again, it just didn't feel right (in my mind). For the most part, my routine allows 72 hours of rest (except for the shoulders, still gotta work that out) before hitting the same group again. From what i've read, that is sufficient rest for the muscle to repair and then grow on top of that. What is your opinion on this? Yes, I very well could be overtraining and that could be the problem, but once per week feels like undertraining to me. It's probable that I don't train with the level of intensity that you do...

Where the cardio fit in your routine? I do cardio 5 days a week, always after my workout. I shoot for a 1/2 hour, but most of the time wind up with 20 minutes (weight workout goes on too long, and I HAVE to leave at a certain time to get to work, need to come in earlier I guess, yay ) I vary between the treadmill (2 minutes brisk walk, 2 minutes fast run, and so on, basically HIIT), the elliptical, and the stairmaster.

Legs - stick with squats
Chest- drop pec deck....fvcks your shoulders Will take this advice, pec deck never seems to do shyte for me anyway...
Tris- try a close grip bench...or I like reverse grip....these are for mass, kick bac and tri push downs are for fitness models. I definitely will take this advice too, i'm looking for mass! Not to sound ignorant, but which head does close grip bench focus on? I want to make sure i'm adequately hitting all 3 tri heads. What exercises would you supplement the close grip bench with to get a great overall tri workout?
Back- Drop the lat pull down, you get more if you focus on pull ups, add another rowing movement, or deads I usually do both pull ups and lat pull down - you would say drop the lat pull down and add a few more sets of pull ups? Deads kill me because my grip sucks, but I need to work on that. I can definitely add another row exercise in the meantime.
Shoulders- drop one of the pressing movements. Not been a dick- but, your shoulders are lagging the rest of your upper body. Maybe they are getting to much work.... No offense taken! You're 100% spot on - my shoulders suck major @ss and i don't know why. My old routine (that I did for almost a year) was chest and shoulders on Monday/Thursday. I just don't know what i'm doing wrong, but I haven't seen my shoulders change at all in a year. I can say the same for my lats... i'm thinking of getting hormone levels checked, maybe at 34 the test or HGH is low.

What do you mean by ( Three sets to failure)? Is that each set to failure? With increasing weight/ decreasing reps?

Yes, each set to failure. Most of the time I decrease weight after each set in order to hit a target rep range (4-7 on heavier days, 8-11 on lighter). I sometimes change it up and go with the typical pyramid system just to keep things fresh and HOPEFULLY keep my body guessing... but so far it seems to be smarter than me!

I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to help me out. I am so dedicated to this and am willing to put in all of the hard work but want to know that in the end it will pay off - and right now after a year i'm feeling somewhat cheated. I really want to turn things around, add some good mass and lower the bodyfat, or AT LEAST not gain any more.

[gbrice75]

Looking at the diet again.

I understand that you are staying away from the carbs.....but I would add carbs on the work days, at least for breakfast and PWO.....some oats would be good. You got to fuel those muscles..

Try for real food at breakfast, any clean protien would be better then the shake.

I am getting carbs PWO - simple carbs coming from the yogurt (20g), cottage cheese with pineapple (15g), and the skim milk (about 12g).

When you say breakfast, you mean my 4:45am meal right when I get up? That's basically my pre-workout meal. I was going to add some carbs but at the advice of Twist did not. What to do, what to do?!!!

[terraj]

Yes, each set to failure. Most of the time I decrease weight after each set in order to hit a target rep range (4-7 on heavier days, 8-11 on lighter). I sometimes change it up and go with the typical pyramid system just to keep things fresh and HOPEFULLY keep my body guessing... but so far it seems to be smarter than me!

I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to help me out. I am so dedicated to this and am willing to put in all of the hard work but want to know that in the end it will pay off - and right now after a year i'm feeling somewhat cheated. I really want to turn things around, add some good mass and lower the bodyfat, or AT LEAST not gain any more.

Don't beat yourself up Bro, I shit you not...the pics you posted place you ahead of most 1st year trainees, even more so when you add the amount of weight you have dropped. It sounds like you will make a great body builder ( if you don't give up).

I am thinking you are over training, try this- a few warm up sets getting heavier on each, then 1 full on balls to the wall set of around 8-10 reps. If you are doing three movement for the muscle, then you will be doing three hardcore sets. Look to increase the weight each time you hit that muscle.

Or, this one I really like...but I am a bit sick like that. 10x10 method, google it, use the beginner routine. It hurts like a bitch, I am sore for 4 to 5 days after a workout that I have increased the weight on. You will need 1 week between work outs.

I run the above workouts for 4 - 6 weeks at a time, then switch.


The above routine are what works for me, may not be best for you. Try them and see what you think....the main thing I wanted to stress is the importance of shocking the body.

[terraj]

I am getting carbs PWO - simple carbs coming from the yogurt (20g), cottage cheese with pineapple (15g), and the skim milk (about 12g).

When you say breakfast, you mean my 4:45am meal right when I get up? That's basically my pre-workout meal. I was going to add some carbs but at the advice of Twist did not. What to do, what to do?!!!

The simple carbs PWO idea died years ago. IMO you don't need the simple carbs PWO. Those simple carbs will give you an insulin spike, you don't want that. In leaning AND bulking stay away from high GI carbs.

You have no carbs in you daily intake and are lifting weights hard right?
If it was cardio day...then sure, maybe you can drop the carbs.
But you need to fuel the muscles....IMO.


I may have missed it, but, how long after the 4.45 meal are you training?

ATM I am training in the AM, I do 8 eggs whites 2 yokes , half cup of oats, micowave, eat.

an hour later I lift.

Straight after workout, Whey Isolate(50g) with half cup of oats.

I drop the oats for non-lifting days.

Like I said I am a diet geek. If I were you I would post your diet again in the diet section. Get as much help as you can, there are a few smart boys on this site that would help you.

[gbrice75]

Don't beat yourself up Bro, I shit you not...the pics you posted place you ahead of most 1st year trainees, even more so when you add the amount of weight you have dropped. It sounds like you will make a great body builder ( if you don't give up). Thanks again man, i'm not giving up!!!

I am thinking you are over training, try this- a few warm up sets getting heavier on each, then 1 full on balls to the wall set of around 8-10 reps. If you are doing three movement for the muscle, then you will be doing three hardcore sets. Look to increase the weight each time you hit that muscle.

Or, this one I really like...but I am a bit sick like that. 10x10 method, google it, use the beginner routine. It hurts like a bitch, I am sore for 4 to 5 days after a workout that I have increased the weight on. You will need 1 week between work outs. I googled it - sounds very intense! Definitely once/week for each group on this one! Do you think it would be ok to modify some of the exercises so long as i'm following the 10x10 principal? I found quite a few and they weren't all the same (but the principle was), so i'm thinking people have their own little routines using this method.

I run the above workouts for 4 - 6 weeks at a time, then switch. I would probably give this a 4 week run the first time around, switch back to my existing routine for a month, then go at this again for a 6 week run. I would love to put on 10lbs before the summer. Not sure how feasible or realistic that is being though.


The above routine are what works for me, may not be best for you. Try them and see what you think....the main thing I wanted to stress is the importance of shocking the body.

Well, this routine sounds like it will do the trick! Thanks man!

[gbrice75]

The simple carbs PWO idea died years ago. IMO you don't need the simple carbs PWO. Those simple carbs will give you an insulin spike, you don't want that. In leaning AND bulking stay away from high GI carbs. Really? I knew that not everybody in the bodybuilding world agreed with it, I didn't know it was dead!

You have no carbs in you daily intake and are lifting weights hard right?
If it was cardio day...then sure, maybe you can drop the carbs.
But you need to fuel the muscles....IMO. I would assume I should take in some complex slow burning or starchy carbs pre and post workout, but that's about it considering I sit an hour to get to work, 9 hours at a desk, and another hour to get back home?


I may have missed it, but, how long after the 4.45 meal are you training? I start working out exactly an hour later.

ATM I am training in the AM, I do 8 eggs whites 2 yokes , half cup of oats, micowave, eat. Are these hard boiled eggs?

an hour later I lift.

Straight after workout, Whey Isolate(50g) with half cup of oats.

I drop the oats for non-lifting days. So on non-lifting days, are taking in virtually no carbs at all?

Like I said I am a diet geek. If I were you I would post your diet again in the diet section. Get as much help as you can, there are a few smart boys on this site that would help you.

I'm going to do that, I just don't want them getting annoyed that i'm posting my diet over and over again...

[terraj]

Well, this routine sounds like it will do the trick! Thanks man!

Cool man, good luck.

10 pounds will need more fuel...you know what I mean.

When you work out the new routine for the 10x10, keep the arms at 3x10, they get a hella workout on the chest and back days. Do 10 for shoulders, a press movement.
For the 10 sets- stick with compound movements and try to add weight.

You can have a lot of fun and variety with this method.

[terraj]

I'm going to do that, I just don't want them getting annoyed that i'm posting my diet over and over again...

I just nuke the eggs, with a couple spoonfulls of cottage cheese some spices and the oats,comes out light and fluffy and easy to eat.


I drop the carbs on not lifting days, but that is just me. Many guys take carbs with most meals... up until a certain time in the day that is.

Try making small changes to your diet, that diet has gotten you this far, so make some changes and note them. I would start by adding complex carbs on your training days pre and pwo, see how you feel and watch the mirror.

[gbrice75]

Cool man, good luck.

10 pounds will need more fuel...you know what I mean.

When you work out the new routine for the 10x10, keep the arms at 3x10, they get a hella workout on the chest and back days. Do 10 for shoulders, a press movement.
For the 10 sets- stick with compound movements and try to add weight.

You can have a lot of fun and variety with this method.

Yep, I probably need to bring total cals/day up to about 3000 for starters. I'm planning on doing that in February, I want 2 more solid months of cutting.

If you don't mind, how does this workout sound for this method? (the way I understand it, you just pick a single exercise for each muscle group?)

Monday, Chest and Tri's:
Chest - Incline Bench Press - 10x10
Tri's - Close Grip Bench Press - 3x10 OR Skull Crushers - 3x10
Tri's - Tricep Pushdown - 3x10

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Back and Bi's:
Back - Lat Pull Down - 10x10 (opting for this over a pull up because I will never be able to do 10x10 pullups, and obviously cannot reduce weight to hit the target reps)
Back - Seated Rows - 10x10
Bi's - Preacher Curl - 3x10

Thursday - Rest

Friday - Legs and Shoulders:
Legs - Squats - 10x10
Legs - Leg Curl - 3x10
Legs - Calf Raise - 10x10
Shoulders - Seated Barbell Press - 10x10
Shoulders - Lateral Raise - 3x10
Shoulders - Rear Delt Fly's - 3x10

What do you think of this routine for 4 weeks? What if anything would you change, add, remove, etc?

[terraj]

Yep, I probably need to bring total cals/day up to about 3000 for starters. I'm planning on doing that in February, I want 2 more solid months of cutting.

If you don't mind, how does this workout sound for this method? (the way I understand it, you just pick a single exercise for each muscle group?)

Monday, Chest and Tri's:
Chest - Incline Bench Press - 10x10
Tri's - Close Grip Bench Press - 3x10 OR Skull Crushers - 3x10
Tri's - Tricep Pushdown - 3x10 drop them
Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Back and Bi's:
Back - Lat Pull Down - 10x10 (opting for this over a pull up because I will never be able to do 10x10 pullups, and obviously cannot reduce weight to hit the target reps)
Back - Seated Rows - 10x10
Bi's - Preacher Curl - 3x10
Only one 10x10 per group, drop the pulldowns to 3x10 after the rows

Thursday - Rest

Friday - Legs and Shoulders:
Legs - Squats - 10x10
Legs - Leg Curl - 3x10
Legs - Calf Raise - 10x10 3x15/20
Shoulders - Seated Barbell Press - 10x10
Shoulders - Lateral Raise - 3x10 to much, drop these
Shoulders - Rear Delt Fly's - 3x10 as above That is to much work for a small group, focus on the presses
What do you think of this routine for 4 weeks? What if anything would you change, add, remove, etc?

Not bad bro, give it a shot. I made some changes above, in bold.


I think it works beter like this-

Mon
Chest and back

incline 10x10
(Optional extra Fly 3x10)
Row
10x10
(Optional extra chins/ pullups or last and last pulldowns 3x10)

Rows are what will put the beef on the back, not pulldowns. I do bb rows, love them.

Wed
Legs
Squats 10x10
You will be toast after these...but ( optional extra leg press 3x10 ) I do the leg press for 2 x20 and pump the leg like crazy, it's sick, don't use gym with stairs.
Stiff leg deads 3x10

Friday
Shoulders, arms
Press 10x10
3x10 bis , curls and strict and tris close grip, second would be skull crushers.

The arms and shoulders will get lots of work and should be sore after Monday's chest and back. So they are really getting hit twice a week, whch is OK because they are smaller mucsles

[gbrice75]

Not bad bro, give it a shot. I made some changes above, in bold.


I think it works beter like this-

Mon
Chest and back

incline 10x10
(Optional extra Fly 3x10)
Row
10x10
(Optional extra chins/ pullups or last and last pulldowns 3x10)

Rows are what will put the beef on the back, not pulldowns. I do bb rows, love them.

Wed
Legs
Squats 10x10
You will be toast after these...but ( optional extra leg press 3x10 ) I do the leg press for 2 x20 and pump the leg like crazy, it's sick, don't use gym with stairs.
Stiff leg deads 3x10

Friday
Shoulders, arms
Press 10x10
3x10 bis , curls and strict and tris close grip, second would be skull crushers.

The arms and shoulders will get lots of work and should be sore after Monday's chest and back. So they are really getting hit twice a week, whch is OK because they are smaller mucsles

Thanks Terraj, sounds brutal! As far as back goes, I always understood it that rows will add thickness (from a profile point of view) while pulldowns will add width/wingspan from a front/back point of view. Will doing just rows target the lats at all?

Also, for shoulders - will the single pressing movement hit the side and rear delts enough, or just the fronts? I hear you about them getting extra work during the chest workout, but it seems like that also would target the front delts more than side or rear.

I guess I just want to make sure i'm getting a well rounded build, but then again maybe that isn't the purpose of this routine and rather it's to push through a plateau and/or add overall mass?

[nonotone]

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[terraj]

Look, there is no way in hell you are going to respond to such high volume when you are eating like you are. Stick to the basics, you just need to mix up your exercises and get your priorities right. Try this for a while before moving on to high volume training, I would also try fst-7 before this if I were you. Try this;

Monday, Chest and Tri's:
Chest - Pec Dec Flies - 4x12
Chest - Incline Bench Press - 4x8
Chest - Cable Crossovers - 4x10
Tri's - Close Grip Bench Press - 4x8 OR Skull Crushers - 4x8
Tri's - Tricep Pushdown - 3x12

Note: Flies first for pre-exhaust. Crossovers are for hitting the lower fibers that attatches to the humerus, judging from the pictures you need this exercise to improve the shape of your chest.

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Back and Bi's:
Back - WIDE grip Lat Pull UPS - 4x10
Back - Bent over rows - 3x8
Back - Deadlifts - 3x8
Back - V-grip Seated Rows - 3x12
Bi's - Preacher Curl - 3x8
Bi's - Concentration Curls - 2x12

Note: #1 priority here is lat width, wide grip pull-ups is best because it forces you to use perfect form. Bent over rows, I know they hurt but trust me this is the best mass building exercise for back hands down.

Thursday - Rest

Friday - Legs and Shoulders:
Shoulders - CABLE Lateral Raises - 4x12
Shoulders - Seated DUMBELL Presses - 3x8
Shoulders - Seated Lateral Raises - 3x10
Shoulders - Front Raises - 3x10
Shoulders - Rear Delt Fly's - 3x10

Legs - Squats - 3x10
Legs - Leg Curl - 3x10
Legs - Calf Raise - 6x12

Note: Priority is side delts, that's why you do them first. You need to be extremely strickt on your form on the cable lateral raises to pre-exhaust the side delts. Be sure to bring the dumbells all the way down on the presses. Legs you have to figure out yourself, I'm not good at legs

Try this routine and I guarantee you that you will see results.

-

If you read the thread you would have seen he plans to increase cals for the volume training.

There are many ways of training and high volume training has been proven to work for many trainees from beginners to pros, it's main asset is getting the trainee past plateaus, a short shock to the body then back to whatever routine you want.

Have you tried it?

You talk about lat raises 3 excerises...please dude, the OP is looking for some mass.

Cable cross over and pec deck flies....your kidding mate!

[terraj]

Thanks Terraj, sounds brutal! As far as back goes, I always understood it that rows will add thickness (from a profile point of view) while pulldowns will add width/wingspan from a front/back point of view. Will doing just rows target the lats at all?
Rows hit the whole back, try to get some pull ups in, even if they are chin ups

Also, for shoulders - will the single pressing movement hit the side and rear delts enough, or just the fronts? I hear you about them getting extra work during the chest workout, but it seems like that also would target the front delts more than side or rear.
You are doing 10 x 10 for shoulders, you will feel it. It is plenty for a small muscle..

I guess I just want to make sure i'm getting a well rounded build, but then again maybe that isn't the purpose of this routine and rather it's to push through a plateau and/or add overall mass?

You are running it for 4 to 6 weeks, I wouldn't worry about getting out of proportion


underlined

[terraj]

Tip on high volume training.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...72106CBE.hydra

[nonotone]

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[terraj]

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If you look at the vast majority of pro bodybuilders today what does all of them have in common? They all swear by the basic principles for building muscle. In my opinion both FST-7 and Doggcrap is superior to German volume training when it comes to alternative training methods, I respect your guru attempt here but the advice you are giving is not very good advice... First of all, the OP should not be bulking at 3000 kcals now, he should either keep cutting at 2200 calories to get lean and then bulk, OR increase the cals a little right up to maintenance to attempt to burn fat at a slow rate while adding some lean muscle.

Bodybuilding is all about improving your weakest body parts, and in the OP's case, he is lacking in side deltoids, back width and chest shape. The program I made is shaped so that he can improve his weakest parts, as I said in the previous post, the flies and crossovers are the best shaping exercises for the exact parts of the chest he needs to bring up, and they also add mass because he has practically no volume on those fibers he will be hitting. 13 Sets is more then enough for back at this level of development. As I said, pullups and bent over rows are the absolute best mass-builders for lats, rhomboids, teres minor/major etc. etc. It will bring a lot more with to the back and the seated rows will also bring some thickness. For the shoulders, he needs to do them first before legs. I think you should have a own day just for shoulders and a own day just for legs.

I suggest increasing your calories to maintenance and post your diet in the diet forum, If you are lucky you might get some expert opinions there. For sure it will be better then the help you are getting here. For your training, I suggest trying my program for 3 months, and then I'm sure you will understand the importance of heavy training, following the basic principles that works for everyone, and prioritizing your lagging body parts.

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Your giving training advice and this is you??


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...43#post4449643

Looks like you could do with some volume Bro. Oh wait, according to the this thread, you do train 10x10.

[gbrice75]

Guys, I appreciate the feedback from both of you and hate to see a pi$$ing contest over my post. At the end of the day, everybody's body responds differently to a given stimuli, and I need to, through trial and error, find what works for me. You both make valid points. What is certain is that what i'm doing now is no longer working, and I need to change it up. As I said, I do want to continue 'cutting' until around February where I will increase daily calories to 3000 or so and see if there is any evident growth after a month or 2.

A major concern for me in the meantime is bodyfat - I don't want to waste the next 2 months and wind up with the same BF% in February. It's hard to imagine that what i'm doing isn't optimal to promote fat loss, I feel like i'm doing everything right. 300+ grams of protein per day, eating 7 meals/day at 3 hours apart, carbs under 100g daily and cutting them off after the 10:15am meal, started incorporating healthy fats, doing my cardio daily .... at 2000-2200 cals per day, I can't see how I won't lose fat. However, the truth of the matter is I don't really know my BMR or TDEE and without that I could be making a major mistake. I need to research and really figure it out to get the numbers accurate.

PS - Terraj, that link was a great read!