Seeking info

[The Specialist]

Hi all,

32 years old
180 lbs
16% bf

I would put my experience of lifting in the advance category and I am cerified in nutrition. I have no need for advice there unless it pretains to the extra requirments my body will need while taking steriods.

So, I have no desire to put much more mass on. Certainly not the 10-15 lbs of water I would put on if I did a bulking cycle. If I where to gain much more I would have to buy all new suits! No way! That being said I am looking to get stronger and leaner. My imediate goal is to drop my body fat down to 10-12% range while continueing to put on some mass and strenght.

I have to tell you there is alot of bad info out there on the web. Everything I read prior to reading the forums said Winny was the way to go? So I purchased some on line. I have yet to begin and will not do so till I am far more educated. So here are the questions. Please stick to them.

Many say Winny only is Bad? Why if the above results are all I am looking for?

Joint Pain, Are there suppliments besides EFa's and Glucosamine I should take to combat it.

Pct? Some say it is not necissay others say it is a must? Which one is it? If needed what do you advise how much and at what point into the cycle should I begin.

Dosage? I am not looking to distroy my liver(Which also seems to be a big debate) many say it is not nearly as bad as many of you say it is. In any case I will be taking it orally. Is there any point to starting low 30 mgs ed for 2 weeks then up it to 40for a week then 50 for a week and then start down again. I would arrange this to do it for 6 weeks. I figure this way if I like the results I'm getting from 30 then why do more? The dosages above are on the low side. Can I expect results or do I need to up it?

Ok so that is a good start. Please stay on topic. If you think I should take some with the winny I am not necissarily opposed to it. But be clear as to how it will benifit me and how it will still keep me in the paramiters of my goal.

Thank you.

[D7M]

how tall are you?

Winny only is not your best choice. Honestly, a low dose of test would be much safer, and your diet and cardio will dictate how much you "cut" or "bulk".

[The Specialist]

I'm 5'9.

But as I understood it I could stand to gain quite a bit of water on Test.

You say winny is not my best choice? But is it a suitable option for my goals? I hear that the side effects can vary greatly, with some people not incountering them at all. Is it the side effects that you are basing your opinion on or the results?

[HuntMan]

how tall are you?

Winny only is not your best choice. Honestly, a low dose of test would be much safer, and your diet and cardio will dictate how much you "cut" or "bulk".

Agree^^..The compounds you use aren't as important as your cardio and diet as D7 stated.. Since you are certified in nutrition then i would say your one step ahead.. I would continue to do some research.. Running Test as a base is probably a good start..Usually they don't recommend running two compounds your first cycle.. But I have used and know many people that have used test as a base to a lean mass/cutt cylce and had great results..Taking A-Dex around.25mged or eod would also help with water retention..

[HuntMan]

I'm 5'9.

But as I understood it I could stand to gain quite a bit of water on Test.

You say winny is not my best choice? But is it a suitable option for my goals? I hear that the side effects can vary greatly, with some people not incountering them at all. Is it the side effects that you are basing your opinion on or the results?

Usually winny is not advised to ran along without test as it will shut down your bodys own production of test during cylce.. and that can lead to a reverse of what your goals are.. Lethargy, and decrease in libido and sex drive.

[The Specialist]

Hunt man, so your saying I'm better off doing a Winny only cycle?

I do substantial cardio already. The 16% body fat I am at now is down from 20-21.. I am just finding it harder and harder to lose more fat while maintaning mucscle let alone building apon it.

From what I understand Lebido is something I can expect to fall off on the Winny is this true? If so is there something that can be done to offset it? Does the fact that I am looking to take a small dosage mean this might not be something I have to worry about?

[HuntMan]

Hunt man, so your saying I'm better off doing a Winny only cycle?

I do substantial cardio already. The 16% body fat I am at now is down from 20-21.. I am just finding it harder and harder to lose more fat while maintaning mucscle let alone building apon it.

From what I understand Lebido is something I can expect to fall off on the Winny is this true? If so is there something that can be done to offset it? Does the fact that I am looking to take a small dosage mean this might not be something I have to worry about?

yes there is something you can do to offset it.. Run test too.. If you are hardcore set on running winny.. I would highly advise to run atleast 250mg/week of test..Trust me, if you say u have good diet and cardio then test you will be fine on bro.. YOu could run adex along with it to combat extra bloat.. But if your diet and cardio is good then you shouldnt experience that anyways..

[G4R]

You can cut or bulk running only test, again, the biggest factor there is going to be your diet. Run a cutting diet along with test for a cutting cycle. Don't worry about the winny until you find out how your body is going to react to a single base compound first. If I am going to run only test, and I am cutting, I usually go with Prop.

[HuntMan]

You can cut or bulk running only test, again, the biggest factor there is going to be your diet. Run a cutting diet along with test for a cutting cycle. Don't worry about the winny until you find out how your body is going to react to a single base compound first. If I am going to run only test, and I am cutting, I usually go with Prop.

Agreed!^^

[The Specialist]

Am I correct in understanding that Test can only be taken through injection?



Also While I am taking everyone's feed back seriously I would apriciate it if you would still answer a few of my original questions.. atleast the one that pretains to pct?

[HuntMan]

yes you would still need a PCT for a winny only cylce IT WILL SHUT YOU DOWN!! y risk it???? just take test, diet hard, and hit the cardio!, Are you affraid of injecting?? your not taking anyones advice here bro? ..

[G4R]

PCT is 100% a must. Your bodies naty test production is going to be shut down, and while there is a good chance it will start back up on its own, there is just as good of a chance if not more of a chance that it won't. And yes, test is injection form.

[The Specialist]

Thank you going for ripped.


Hunt man-yes you would still need a PCT for a winny only cylce IT WILL SHUT YOU DOWN!! y risk it????

Hunt Man why the tone? I am listening to your advice? As well as others and I am trying to make an educated decision based on all of it. If I where to take anyones advice with out considering who it is coming from and how educated they are then I would be stupid. I'm uneducated to some extent on Steriods and such. That doesn't mean I'm stupid. For instance please review blerbs I have pulled from other boards and posts..

(winstrol only didnt affect my libido for the better or worse. Winstrol is pretty mild when it comes to "shutting you down" but I recover pretty easily so dont take that info. as universal for everyone)
This post was responded to by this one-
Agreed

This one is interesting in particular and is backed up by several studies I have read!
(If you actualy read up properly on winstrol you will find that this steroid is not at all androgenic and is only anabolic you will also notice that winstrol does NOT cause shut down and that if you run a winstrol only cycle that you do not need to PCT afterwards due to the fact that it doesnt cause any shutdown!!!! READ UP!!!)

These posts are but a few commenting on Winsrol its effect on the libido, your own bodies test production and pct. So pardon me for wanting to hear solid reasoning and information behind people's opinion. Clearly some of you and or who I pulled from other sources are WRONG! I am trying to decipher who in fact that is.

[IGot80HD]

my first cycle was a winny only cycle. oral tabs 50mg ed.

after the first week i lost my sex drive. lost sex drive meant i really had no interest in my gf so i lost her too (that was a good thing haha)

left me lethargic, bad roid rage, shrunk my nuts, horrible sleep. horrible joint pains. had to take milk thistle, hawthorne berry extract, glucosamine, chondroiton, and i dont even remember what else to HELP battle with the side effects.

needless to say it took me 4 weeks to realize i was an idiot and another 2 MONTHS after to feel and look (balls) normal again.

my advice. dont do winny only

[The Specialist]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archiv...t-1434341.html

In fact try reading the above thread..

[IGot80HD]

needless to say it took me 4 weeks to realize i was an idiot and another 2 MONTHS after to feel and look (balls) normal again.

forgot to mention this was WITH PCT not without. 2 months with a PCT. So it could either take the same time without or longer . . . id guess longer.

[The Specialist]

Thank you Igot80hd... That is what I am looking for. It sounds like it really beat you up bad!

From what I am gathering Winny really effects people differently. And it seems to be from one extreme to the other with few in the middle. Either they expericenced no side effects at all or they got there a-- handed to them.

[IGot80HD]

Thank you Igot80hd... That is what I am looking for. It sounds like it really beat you up bad!

yea i still have a baggy with 2/3 of what i was going to take left. i may ADD it to a future cycle at a MUCH smaller dose.

it did make my muscles hard as fvck which the lady and ladies like but man i couldnt get my dlck up with out playing with it for at least 10 mins and even then i didnt know when he was gonna give.