Lowering TRT dose

[Black]

I feel my TRT dose it too high. After reading and researching, it seems like 200 mg a week is on the higher end of a TRT dose. My doc had me at 300mg a week (I shot bi-weekly). Bloodwork came back, everything (health) was fine. Test was 1400 and E was 41 (within in range, but on the higher end).

Doc wanted E down to 20 and wanted to start me on an AI. Started AI, but it made me feel crappy, like it was too low. He says TEST dose is fine, but again, everything I read says this is more of a cycle dose, which is not what I want.

So I started to lower test. I wanted to taper down to 200. I got down to 220 a week, but felt off. I thought I tapered down properly, but maybe I didn't. Any ideas? I'm back up to 280mg a week (140mg bi-weekly) and feel better, I think.

Doc isn't giving me much advise/help. He is ok with 300mg a week. I sort of feel like I'm wasting it. Plus, taking this much is more $$$ also.

I'm looking for a plan. Any ideas on how to drop dosages down? What symptoms other than mood should I look out for? All ideas appreciated.

[tboney]

200 mgs a week is at the high end range of most trt protocols....Most people would love that kind of dose! but thats fine. The use of an AI can help... What is the AI? What is the dosage?

I dont think it is necessary to taper down...infact, creating unstable test levels can make you feel like shit. Go to 100mgs twice a week, use the AI, and get some blood work to see where you are.

[Black]

Arimidex is the AI. At 300 mgs a week, he originally wanted me to take 0.5mgs 3x a week (M/W/F). I told him it made me feel like crap (lethargic, moody, etc.) so he told me to take 0.5mgs 2x a week (M & F). I still felt crappy on this dose. However, all I have is the 0.5mg capsules.

Should I try to start lower than 200mg and work up from there?

Also, are bi-weekly injections necessary or should I be about the same with weekly?

If I lower the test, does the Estrogen lower also or will it still be elevated and need to be brought down with an AI?


Has anyone ever tried to come off to see how they feel? If so, how did you do it?

[tboney]

How old are you bro? How long have you been on hrt?
Go to 200mgs a week and stay there for a while until you can get some blood work. I believe that twice a week injections yeild more stable blood levels...but once a week will suffice if that all you can stand.

The blood work will indicate where your various levels are. Too much or too little estro can make you feel shitty. The AI is needed only if your levels are high! Hence blood work is needed.

Has anyone ever tried to come off to see how they feel? What do you mean?? Come off of the test??

[Vettester]

What the hell is up with these docs?? Your "T" level is 1400 and your doc says the dose is fine? I had a Endo flip on me when I was slightly over 800, and he wigged completely when it hit a hair over 1,000. Truthfully, I feel just about right somewhere in that 650 to 800 range or so.

If you mean has anyone stopped their meds ... Yeah, it's called taking a crash. I've seen it down to 195 after being up at 1000, within just a month. I played this game with my female doc when I first went through this, because she figured trial and error is a good thing when she's not the one who has to go through this ordeal. Horrible feeling! I'd follow Tboney's advise with the blood work. It might take a few sessions, but work on tweaking it to get feeling better. IMO, I think you'll feel better if you get it down below 1000, but everyone is different.

[Vettester]

Totally amazing!!! I don't know how many guys I've responded to here that are in their 40's, low 200 score, and their doctors are hesitant to give them 5g of AndroGel, or they want to give them 1 shot of 50mg to last for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, and more. Like you said, at your age it could very well be just some lifestyle changes and such to make a difference on your score. Just surprised that a doctor would write up that prescription at your age without exploring a few options first, but the world of HRT is far from being consistent. I hope your doc did explain that you could have fertility issues while being on HRT.

Here's the situation now ... You've been on this for a year, and it probably won't be as easy as just stopping it and going back to normal. I suspect there's a good chance that you are shutdown. If you do elect to go this route, I sure hope your doctor has a therapy program in mind to see if your natty can be restored.

[baja212]

What the hell is up with these docs?? Your "T" level is 1400 and your doc says the dose is fine? I had a Endo flip on me when I was slightly over 800, and he wigged completely when it hit a hair over 1,000. Truthfully, I feel just about right somewhere in that 650 to 800 range or so.

If you mean has anyone stopped their meds ... Yeah, it's called taking a crash. I've seen it down to 195 after being up at 1000, within just a month. I played this game with my female doc when I first went through this, because she figured trial and error is a good thing when she's not the one who has to go through this ordeal. Horrible feeling! I'd follow Tboney's advise with the blood work. It might take a few sessions, but work on tweaking it to get feeling better. IMO, I think you'll feel better if you get it down below 1000, but everyone is different.

V, I'm just curious, what dosage do you take to get your levels in the range of 650-850?

[Vettester]

V, I'm just curious, what dosage do you take to get your levels in the range of 650-850?

Currently running 200mg/wk, but that might be getting tapered back to 150mg or 125mg, as I'm also running HCG a few times a week too. Will do BW at the end of the month and see where it's at. In the past, 200mg usually kept me close to 800.

[Black]

I'm 28, turning the corner to 29. I've been on TRT from my Doc for almost a year.

I've thrown the idea around of coming off for a few weeks now. I guess it's because I question whether I need to be on in the first place. I mean, my test (free and total) where low, especially for my age. They were around 250-300ng/dl. My free was at the lower to mid-range. Based on those numbers, my doc (and myself) felt that I should be on TRT.

However, I've since questioned this pretty much due to the fact that many factors can come into play based on the time of testing (i.e did I get enough sleep the night before? did I have a beer or two the night before? was I eating enough calories and fats?). I don't know. Maybe it's just me questioning doctors because of all the inconsistencies you hear or have experienced.

It just seems like to really know what's going on, you need frequent and consistent blood tests. Seems like basing a decision on one test is kind of random.

Don't get me wrong. I have felt better than before. I think a big factor is getting my numbers and dosages where they need to be.

Thanks for all your responses tboney.

[Black]

Well, this sucks. The doc also has me on HCG @ 250iu 3x a week. I run this every couple months and take a month break. He said this is supposed to help my natural production from completely shutting down.

I'm looking forward to getting my dosage down cause I believe it will help me feel better. However, now I'm worried about "other" things.

So do you think I should try to come off and run a type of PCT, then see where I'm at? Trying to get some ideas before I approach the doc. He seems confident that I won't have any problems, because of the HCG. However, now I'm kind of scared.

[Vettester]

Well, this sucks. The doc also has me on HCG @ 250iu 3x a week. I run this every couple months and take a month break. He said this is supposed to help my natural production from completely shutting down.

I'm looking forward to getting my dosage down cause I believe it will help me feel better. However, now I'm worried about "other" things.

So do you think I should try to come off and run a type of PCT, then see where I'm at? Trying to get some ideas before I approach the doc. He seems confident that I won't have any problems, because of the HCG. However, now I'm kind of scared.

Actually, the HCG is a good thing (IMO) and it probably has helped in regard to keeping your natty alive. Actually, at your age, he could have probably ran a little HCG by itself and increased your test numbers. Just review your concerns with him, see what options he has, then let us know.

Don't worry too hard about it!

[Black]

Actually, the HCG is a good thing (IMO) and it probably has helped in regard to keeping your natty alive. Actually, at your age, he could have probably ran a little HCG by itself and increased your test numbers. Just review your concerns with him, see what options he has, then let us know.

Don't worry too hard about it!

Thanks man, appreciate your help and input. After doing some reading and research, I wish I had gone the route of trying an AI and maybe some HCG solo.

I'm going to talk to him in a few days. I'll let you know what he thinks. Thanks again.

[Black]

Talked to my doc. He said I didn't have to come off, but if I wanted to, I could. He told me to continue to run HCG for 4 weeks after last test injection.

If I do this, my plan is to see where my natural levels are. Doc doesn't necessarily believe in using any type of SERM, however, should I plan to do this, should I add nolva at least? What about an AI?

Would a good time to do a blood test, would be after the 4 weeks, when I come off completely?

Just looking for a plan. Not sure if I should try it or not. I wonder if it's a lost cause by now. Any opinions? Thanks.

[Black]

bump

[Vettester]

Dante, I'm going to suggest that you post this question in the PCT section. I've personally never been in the situation of trying to restore my natty ... I'm 43, and pretty much settled with the fact that there's no going back for me. However, I've read quite a bit on the subject of PCT. HCG gets some mixed response for doing a PCT protocol, but I know my doctor would more than likely do the same thing. Some are adamant about going the route of Nolva/Clomid. I suspect you could fit some Nolva in the mix with whatever method use. BUT, check it out with the PCT crew to cover your options. You'll find a host of members with all sorts of PCT experience floating around in that section, as you do with HRT in this section.

Please keep us posted with whatever you do. I'm curious how things turnout with you, even if you find away to get off TRT. We'll get you back down the road when the gray hair hits.

[Black]

Thanks vetteman. I've read some similar things about the down sides to using HCG throughout PCT. Most cyclers that use HCG, cut it out before PCT.

I guess the only way I'm going to be able to know if I need to be on PCT is to try this route out. Kinda scared cause I don't want to crash, so to speak.

I'm going to check out the PCT section. Thanks for your help. I'll post back in this thread when I find anything out. Hopefully it will help someone else in my position.