MMA P4P debate..

[quarry206]

Ok, I'm opening the can of worms, for our basically yearly debate for pound for pound best fighter.

the three basic names on every list are:
Anderson Silva (24-4) 6'2'' 185 normally, 205lb
*11 strait wins, including one out of weight class.

Georges St-Pierre (20-2) 5'11'' 170
*7 strait wins... 25 strait rounds (by score cards)

Fedor Emelianenko (31-1) 6' 233lbs
*28 strait wins (not counting the no contest to nog)


Anybody have anybody else they believe should be added, please add with reasons why.

Try and make all arguments for or against with actual reasons not just because that is who you are a fan of.

[trix8]

lyoto machida 18-0
Statistically the least hit mma fighter ever
1 clean shot too the face every other round

[trix8]

never lost a round until he fought Shogun

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Lesnar...

[scotimus]

gonna lose the match against shogun in may,shoulda lost last time and everyone knows that

gsp is 20-2 now. lol. looks better for him on paper than 19-2.

my vote is for georges.

shoulda made this into a poll quarry206

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Kimbo...

[quarry206]

I personally think Fedor is the best fighter ever. .

I will say GSP and Silva pound for pound are just as talented and dominate their weight class with such easy that everybody watches all of them to see either how fast they will win or just clearly wanting to see history the day they get upset.

[kiddo24]

On current form I wouldn't say Fedor, I think he's now on a gradual decline a lot like Big Nog..I might be wrong but I'm not sure he could handle the power and speed of some of the heavyweights outhere ala Cain, Carwin, Lesnar, Dos Santos.
I think GSP is a fair shout but he hasn't stepped up as yet and needs to go to 185 to prove his true p4p credentials.
For all the above I'm going for Anderson Silva as the best p4p in MMA currently.
how good was Carwin's KO of Mir!!

[scotimus]

On current form I wouldn't say Fedor, I think he's now on a gradual decline a lot like Big Nog..I might be wrong but I'm not sure he could handle the power and speed of some of the heavyweights outhere ala Cain, Carwin, Lesnar, Dos Santos.
I think GSP is a fair shout but he hasn't stepped up as yet and needs to go to 185 to prove his true p4p credentials.
For all the above I'm going for Anderson Silva as the best p4p in MMA currently.
how good was Carwin's KO of Mir!!

loved the KO. mir is all done now. he added a lotta weight to be competitive and trained really hard but carwin just manhandled him.

on a side note you cant say GSP has to go up to 185 to prove his lb4lb credentials....its lb4 lb meaning hes the best for what he is. say if he did go up and challenge+beat silva....then what? people would probably want him to fight machida,then lesnaror carwin then they would finally give him the nod?

now way, hes the best lb4lb right now.

[Knockout_Power]

the three basic names on every list are:
Anderson Silva (24-4) 6'2'' 185 normally, 205lb
*11 strait wins, including one out of weight class.

thats actually 2 wins out of class, he beat Irvin and Griffin @ 205...

[Knockout_Power]

I would vote for whoever doesnt have to cut weight to make a fight happen. =)

[kiddo24]

loved the KO. mir is all done now. he added a lotta weight to be competitive and trained really hard but carwin just manhandled him.

on a side note you cant say GSP has to go up to 185 to prove his lb4lb credentials....its lb4 lb meaning hes the best for what he is. say if he did go up and challenge+beat silva....then what? people would probably want him to fight machida,then lesnaror carwin then they would finally give him the nod?

now way, hes the best lb4lb right now.

Not quite, but I take your point.
And I'm not saying he has to move up but let's face it Silva has gained a lot more kudos for stepping up to 205, everyone has this downer on BJ Penn but at least he stepped up.
I wanna see GSP do it and I'm sure @ 29 he will do, he's got time!

Also Mir done is a bit harsh, but the way the HW division is stacking up, cain, dos santos, carwin it does look like he has an upward task to come back from that loss.

[Knockout_Power]

Thats 2 disgustingly brutal beatdowns Mir has taken. He will be a concussion case from now on, and with the previously mentionned top opponents in HW (Carwin, Dos Santos, Valasquez) you do not take hits well against them.

If you watch the last fight, Mir is actually severally dazed from the first and second uppercuts which hit closer to his ear/temple region. That little attempt at a single leg he did was out of sheer instinct, he was already out and was sliding down to the matt regardless of whether there were more punches after the first 4 or 5 while standing. He slid down the leg, touched the ground and sank into that face down, hands beside head limp pose and the last 3 hits were masively damaging to the brain. I personally do not think he is going to recover after this. I hope he makes a good recovery as I dont like seeing people get hurt, but he will not be the same after this.

[kiddo24]

Thats 2 disgustingly brutal beatdowns Mir has taken. He will be a concussion case from now on, and with the previously mentionned top opponents in HW (Carwin, Dos Santos, Valasquez) you do not take hits well against them.

If you watch the last fight, Mir is actually severally dazed from the first and second uppercuts which hit closer to his ear/temple region. That little attempt at a single leg he did was out of sheer instinct, he was already out and was sliding down to the matt regardless of whether there were more punches after the first 4 or 5 while standing. He slid down the leg, touched the ground and sank into that face down, hands beside head limp pose and the last 3 hits were masively damaging to the brain. I personally do not think he is going to recover after this. I hope he makes a good recovery as I dont like seeing people get hurt, but he will not be the same after this.

Yeah agree with all of the above but everyone is different, some fighters can take shots like that and it not affect them. Like you I really don't like seeing pro's get hurt bad, we all love a KO but I never wanna see a career ended.
I hope Mir comes back but I'd hate to see him step in with someone like Cain and get smashed again.

[quarry206]

thats actually 2 wins out of class, he beat Irvin and Griffin @ 205...

actually its more than that. a few times he has fought people that didn't make weight, techinally making it a non 185 match

[quarry206]

the thing about some of this debate, if GSP fights Silva and loses .... how does that take away from him being p4p

being p4p does not mean you can fight at any weight. and merely means that for what you are and body type you are the best, and "IF" you had a different body and same skill set you would still win.

so really if he fought at 185 against a guy that is naturally walking the streets at 6'2'' 210lb he is any less pound for pound great.. that is a massive jump.

but i will say i would LOVE to see that fight.

[ocnorb40]

Little surprised BJ Penn is not at least in the discussion. He bumped 15 to take on GSP and looked every bit the part of a slower over weight class fighter. He may not be the best p4p but he deserves to be in the discussion.

I think you need to throw in 2 of the most explosive non UFC weight classes as well with the featherweights and bantamweights. When Jose Aldo dismantles Uriah on the first PPV event in WEC history on 4/24 he too should be "in the discussion".

A year ago I would have put Miguel Angel Torres as one of the best p4p but now that weight class is loaded with talent.

Out

[boxa06]

GSP and SILVA are the best in my opinion.

[Knockout_Power]

Little surprised BJ Penn is not at least in the discussion. He bumped 15 to take on GSP and looked every bit the part of a slower over weight class fighter. He may not be the best p4p but he deserves to be in the discussion.
Out

Agreed. BJ fought in Pride in open weight fights and beat light heavies. His skill sets definately make him a P4P contender (as much as I dislike him)

[quarry206]

bj penn fought in K-1 and he did fight lyoto machida in one open weight fight, which he weighted in at 191 and machida 220.. and bj penn lost.

bj didn't really bump up 15 pounds in body weight to fight his welter weight fights. he merely didn't cut down to fight at 155. he has lost 4 out of his last ten.. and is has less than a 75% win percentage. and most all of his fights go to late four round before he wins, or goes a full 25mins and to score cards. he fast win nor dominating fight in any big match up.

bj is a good fighter, but not in the top list of p4p IMO.. everybody else people have listed are guys that could move up or down in weight from there desired weight class and still win a lot more than they lost.

[ocnorb40]

bj didn't really bump up 15 pounds in body weight to fight his welter weight fights. he merely didn't cut down to fight at 155. he has lost 4 out of his last ten.. and is has less than a 75% win percentage. and most all of his fights go to late four round before he wins, or goes a full 25mins and to score cards. he fast win nor dominating fight in any big match up.

Since losing to Jens Pulver in 2002 all he has done is lose to GSP twice (1x a draw decision in Canada?!) and Matt Hughes. In his last 4 title defenses he has only submitted Joe Stevensen in the 2nd round, knocked out Sean Sherk in 3, submitted Kenny Florian in 4 and a vicious tko victory in 5 over Diego Sanchez. All fights ended by knockout or submission. Not sure what you meant by ends in 4 or goes to the cards in 5. If it ends in 4 its in typically dominating fashion. I haven't seen BJ go 5 even in his losses. Like him or not he is in the discussion for best p4p fighter. By the way I don't like him I just like the debate.

[kiddo24]

Penn should defo be in the discussion for p4p no doubt his jui jitsu and boxing are world class in MMA. Didn't he only narrowly lose to Machida as well?
some of the fighters in WEC look awesome but being in UK only see highlights on MMA live would love to see more full fights.

[quarry206]

in the past 5 years he has fought 10 times... and he is 6-4 (nothing impressive).. and one of those 6 was Unanimous Decision.

with the avg of the fights he has actually won being 14.8 mins long. . meaning he is out lasting more than just knocking out or dominating anybody. . in which unlike GSP, Fedor, or silva, Penn does lose rounds on the card.

we are talking about best pound for pound, not best 155.. and since he can not fight out of his weight class even though he keeps trying to, nor learn how to pick his fights IMO he is not on my personal list of best P4P.

yes, he is a great 155, yes he was on track 5 years ago before he let his ego get the best of him to be one of the greatest ever. in my opinion knowing how to train, pick your path and grow slowly into what you want is part of being a great fighter, and that is something he is proven horrible about.