need some help with blood test results at my wits end

[slayer94165]

Hi every body i got my test results back after much pull with doc to test for estradiol.so i see a new endocrongist and he looks at resluts and i ask him about high e2 and says nothing to worry about mine is 91 pg/ml on a scale of 12 to 40.he then tells me that he has a guy that his is twice my range.so then he tells me to stop using injections that he wants to put me on androgel and i say no i have tried it it does nothing so he says its my choice androgel or nothing .so i said forget it and left this is my 3rd endo and it seems these fools know noting not that im a doc but have been reading as much as a can so any input would be apprecated i still have no sex drive and the other syptoms.when i first started 100mg a week i felt alright but then i went doen hill here are my results thanks very much

blood drawn 3.5 day after 100mg injection

estradiol 91 range 12-40pg/ml
total testosterone 551 range 300-1080 ng/dl
shbg 11 range 11-80 nmol/l
bioavailable testosterone 439 range 131-632 ng/dl
free testosterone 157 range 47-244 pg/ml
testosterone % free 2.9 range 1.6 -2.9

[lovbyts]

How is your sex drive? You might try some AI like the Airdex or Letro in the banner at the top to lower your estradiol if I am right.

[flatscat]

Your E2 is the only thing that looks bad to me. Get it under control and you should feel better. I think E2 is easier to control than if your shbg was taking your free t. Adex should do the trick.

[durak]

what else are you taking?

My trt has anastrozol and tamoxifen. you should look at ar-r.com and get liquidex or liquid stane. Don't get the letro. it is too strong. the stane is probably the best.

[slayer94165]

im not taking anything else i have no sex drive at all and still feel like crap i asked my family doc about armidex and he was totally aginst it

[flatscat]

tell him you will get it on your own if he does not help bring your E2 down. or dont tell him and just get some.

[durak]

at that level i would take it into my own hands.

[Black]

Just want to agree with what was already said. According to your doctor, just how high out of range does it need to be before it's a problem? I mean, that's essentially what ranges are for.

Arimidex should do the trick. Lower your E2 and may raise your test a little. Wouldn't hurt to try. And from what your doctor is saying, I'd personally treat yourself in this case.

[Vettester]

Great, another AndroGel loving doctor. Your story is exactly what some of our key problems are in this country. You got a doc telling you it his choice ... Don't matter that you're flipping his paycheck for him (and now some tax payers too), he gets executive privilege with what you're going to take, Son! Eh, the E2 score, me2score, eh, it's all the same. What will he tell you next: that lactating issue you're seeing is no big deal, you can use it to creme his coffee.

Someone launch his ass to the middle of Siberia and see if he finds away out. Better yet, Thunder Dome his ass!

[slayer94165]

thanks guys for all the input and thanks vetteman08 you post made me laugh my ass off .was thinking if i go to my primary doc and tell him my nipples hurt if maybe he would finally give in. what do you guys think

[Black]

thanks guys for all the input and thanks vetteman08 you post made me laugh my ass off .was thinking if i go to my primary doc and tell him my nipples hurt if maybe he would finally give in. what do you guys think

You could try that. However, in my experience and from the sound of many others, primary care docs (family docs, internal medicine docs) don't know enough to help you. Or don't care enough. Or would rather prescribe a treatment where they get a kick-back from it. When I initially went in because of low test issues, I saw my primary care doc. After expressing my concerns and wanting to test things further, I ended up leaving with a SSRI (Anti-depression) script. No testing, nothing. These things are prescribed like candy and have many more problems associated with them than any testosterone. I know, because I was treated with these for low T for 2.5 years before I finally educated myself and found out what the problem really was. Getting off of those were a bitch (Sorry, I'm ranting off subject).

You may have more success at a Urologist. Another option would be to try an "anti-aging" doctor. They will work with you more, but it's usually out-of-pocket. A third option would be to treat yourself.

Vette, I 100% agree with you about the Thunder Dome. Great post!

[durak]

wasting your time going to general md. you know your e2 and can handle it for $60.

[Doctor-Triton]

I Respectfully disagree with most of the answer above.

The first thing I can tell you is GET A NEW Endo!!
The fact that you need to talk him into getting a blood test done is outrageous….he should immediately schedule you for ANY test of your choice if you show a concern (This is basic procedure)….you obviously know your body better than he does. Secondly, just because he is an Endo, does not necessarily mean he is a Anabolic Specialist. I can give you a few personal recommendations if you private message me as to what Endo’s are good in your area.

As for your blood test, it is not concerning to me at all. What part of this test are you feeling uncomfortable about? Also, what type of Testosterone injection did you receive? I would NOT recommend a strong SERM or AI in this case. I would suspect that they would negatively effect your Lipid levels more then you can tolerate at this point. The ONLY estro suppression medication you could consider is Tamoxifen Citrate, however, your levels are not yet to the point of concern, especially if you are switching to Androgel. Obviously your Estradiol will dramatically drop when you make this switch due to the relatively low Transdermal Aromatase Enzyme Conversion. If you are feeling any side effects of elevated estrogen, there are a few routes you could take (Over the counter) that are both effective and inexpensive…I can give you some guidance if needed.

[slayer94165]

its kinda funny had no proplem getting test for injections from primary doc but wont give out ai to lower e2 im not seeing endo anymore just want to feel better and stop having to see doctor after doctor and get no where .the thing that does concern me is the high e2 so i have doc appointmet next wensday .i talked to his nurse and said my nipples were real senstive and hurt which they dont she seemed real concerd so hopefully he gives in . other wise i will order it myself.

[durak]

Trition: In the end you are more correct. He should find a new endo. I am just stuborn and take matters into my own hands. (not always a good decision!)

[Vettester]

I Respectfully disagree with most of the answer above.

The first thing I can tell you is GET A NEW Endo!!
The fact that you need to talk him into getting a blood test done is outrageous….he should immediately schedule you for ANY test of your choice if you show a concern (This is basic procedure)….you obviously know your body better than he does. Secondly, just because he is an Endo, does not necessarily mean he is a Anabolic Specialist. I can give you a few personal recommendations if you private message me as to what Endo’s are good in your area.

As for your blood test, it is not concerning to me at all. What part of this test are you feeling uncomfortable about? Also, what type of Testosterone injection did you receive? I would NOT recommend a strong SERM or AI in this case. I would suspect that they would negatively effect your Lipid levels more then you can tolerate at this point. The ONLY estro suppression medication you could consider is Tamoxifen Citrate, however, your levels are not yet to the point of concern, especially if you are switching to Androgel. Obviously your Estradiol will dramatically drop when you make this switch due to the relatively low Transdermal Aromatase Enzyme Conversion. If you are feeling any side effects of elevated estrogen, there are a few routes you could take (Over the counter) that are both effective and inexpensive…I can give you some guidance if needed.

Dr. Triton, welcome to the board. I'm hoping that you're an actual doctor in this field, or that you have extensive studies closely related in endocrinology, urology, and other areas that would be resourceful. I think most of the members would embrace having an actual doctor on this forum to post practical and professional advise. If you are a doctor, no disrespect with some of our threads, but for some reason a lot of your colleagues seem to make matters complicated with a lack of consistency in this particular field. I remember when my primary wanted to give me one shot a month. Wouldn't be a bad deal if it weren't for the 1/2 life being 7 to 8 days. I had enough of the garbage and finally sought out a specialist in HRT.

Didn't mean to hijack, but a doctor in the house gets me excited. Doc, you won't be able to PM until about 50 posts.

[zaggahamma]

Dr. Triton, welcome to the board. I'm hoping that you're an actual doctor in this field, or that you have extensive studies closely related in endocrinology, urology, and other areas that would be resourceful. I think most of the members would embrace having an actual doctor on this forum to post practical and professional advise. If you are a doctor, no disrespect with some of our threads, but for some reason a lot of your colleagues seem to make matters complicated with a lack of consistency in this particular field. I remember when my primary wanted to give me one shot a month. Wouldn't be a bad deal if it weren't for the 1/2 life being 7 to 8 days. I had enough of the garbage and finally sought out a specialist in HRT.

Didn't mean to hijack, but a doctor in the house gets me excited. Doc, you won't be able to PM until about 50 posts.

there was a doctor in training that used to post here i havent seen his posts lately but he tended to post things like DONT SECOND GUESS A DOCTOR...and that guy has more knowlegde then you, etc. etc.....yes doctors are smart and CAN be great if their egos dont get in the way....
op...agree with all above...and you know all you need is to get your estradiol down between 20-40 (give or take a few)...
...you mentioned "still no sex drive" and that you were "all right" at first....how long were you all right and what were your sypmtoms before starting trt and how did you progress and then when exactly did it go "downhill"?

[durak]

I take it upon myself to become educated and find DRs that are "pliable". Too often I hear about DRs screwing stuff up or not really taking the whole person into account.

[slayer94165]

well i started having symptoms almost 4 years ago but ingnored it as working to much etc.tried androl gel in july 2008 from endo 4 pumps re tested after 2 months and total test was 251 he says stay at that it will get better .dec of 2008 went to primary doc got back on androgel for about 6-8 weeks did nothing and i was on 8 pumps .so doc says he will shot me with 200mg every 2 weeks felt a little better but then went back to feeling the same no sex drive etc.so he sends me to a new endo he tells me to stop using injections for 8 to 10 weeks and get re tested came back with total test at 311 so after arguing with him said i was in range which the range was 290 to 950 .so he sends me home with 100 mg every week .well he says .5 on the syringe what i should get .well the bottle i got from pharmcy was 100mg per ml so i was underdoseing so went back and tested and total was 271 so he pumps it to 150 so i just stay on 100mg with out telling him i under dosed .i was getting better less tired little more motivation.then after about 4-5 weeks it started going reverse and feeling not as good i still dont have a sex drive my energy is alright .so i have been on 100 mg every week since january of 2010.before feeling like crap i was active and horney all day nothing really sticks out how or when it happend i mean it just was gradual over time and got worse .i hope this helps sorry post is long and i suck at spelling and typing thanks guys

[flatscat]

I Respectfully disagree with most of the answer above.

The first thing I can tell you is GET A NEW Endo!!
The fact that you need to talk him into getting a blood test done is outrageous….he should immediately schedule you for ANY test of your choice if you show a concern (This is basic procedure)….you obviously know your body better than he does. Secondly, just because he is an Endo, does not necessarily mean he is a Anabolic Specialist. I can give you a few personal recommendations if you private message me as to what Endo’s are good in your area.

As for your blood test, it is not concerning to me at all. What part of this test are you feeling uncomfortable about? Also, what type of Testosterone injection did you receive? I would NOT recommend a strong SERM or AI in this case. I would suspect that they would negatively effect your Lipid levels more then you can tolerate at this point. The ONLY estro suppression medication you could consider is Tamoxifen Citrate, however, your levels are not yet to the point of concern, especially if you are switching to Androgel. Obviously your Estradiol will dramatically drop when you make this switch due to the relatively low Transdermal Aromatase Enzyme Conversion. If you are feeling any side effects of elevated estrogen, there are a few routes you could take (Over the counter) that are both effective and inexpensive…I can give you some guidance if needed.

I am on trt, and take an AI, and my lipid panels have IMPROVED! Imagine that.

[flatscat]

I Respectfully disagree with most of the answer above.

The first thing I can tell you is GET A NEW Endo!!
The fact that you need to talk him into getting a blood test done is outrageous….he should immediately schedule you for ANY test of your choice if you show a concern (This is basic procedure)….you obviously know your body better than he does. Secondly, just because he is an Endo, does not necessarily mean he is a Anabolic Specialist. I can give you a few personal recommendations if you private message me as to what Endo’s are good in your area.

As for your blood test, it is not concerning to me at all. What part of this test are you feeling uncomfortable about? Also, what type of Testosterone injection did you receive? I would NOT recommend a strong SERM or AI in this case. I would suspect that they would negatively effect your Lipid levels more then you can tolerate at this point. The ONLY estro suppression medication you could consider is Tamoxifen Citrate, however, your levels are not yet to the point of concern, especially if you are switching to Androgel. Obviously your Estradiol will dramatically drop when you make this switch due to the relatively low Transdermal Aromatase Enzyme Conversion. If you are feeling any side effects of elevated estrogen, there are a few routes you could take (Over the counter) that are both effective and inexpensive…I can give you some guidance if needed.

Problem is if we has as many "expert doctors" on male hormone treatment as there are for women, we wouldn't be in this situation. Until the profession stands up for men, and some of our problems, and stops being afraid to practice medicine and uphold their oath, we will have a hard time finding what we need without paying through the nose for it.


Doctors saw the female hormone replacement as a cash cow, and so they jumped in on it. Can you imagine the profits obtainable if trt was as common as female hrt?

Come on Doc's pull your head out of your ass - it is a win/win for you. You get to take care of the patient and make some money while you are at it.

I know, I know, the insurance companies are another one with their foot on the brake. But, you could still charge less than the anit-aging clinics, let the patient get his meds where he wants to, and still make plenty of dough compaired to what you get back from the insurance co's - so don't give me that line of bs either.

Sorry bout this, it is just that the op pissed me off for some reason.

[slayer94165]

i agree with flatscat .we have a anti aging clinic not to far from me but there is no way i can afford to go there at this time.its pretty sad all that we want to do is feel better .my endo that i asked about the high e2 looked at me like i was a idiot and talked down to me .i cant see how these guys can keep making money if you treat patients like that.if i treated customers liked that at work my employer would not think twice about getting rid of me

[zaggahamma]

Problem is if we has as many "expert doctors" on male hormone treatment as there are for women, we wouldn't be in this situation. Until the profession stands up for men, and some of our problems, and stops being afraid to practice medicine and uphold their oath, we will have a hard time finding what we need without paying through the nose for it.


Doctors saw the female hormone replacement as a cash cow, and so they jumped in on it. Can you imagine the profits obtainable if trt was as common as female hrt?

Come on Doc's pull your head out of your ass - it is a win/win for you. You get to take care of the patient and make some money while you are at it.

I know, I know, the insurance companies are another one with their foot on the brake. But, you could still charge less than the anit-aging clinics, let the patient get his meds where he wants to, and still make plenty of dough compaired to what you get back from the insurance co's - so don't give me that line of bs either.

Sorry bout this, it is just that the op pissed me off for some reason.

i dont think the medical profession wants healthy horny males running around

[Vettester]

Don't tell me our potential Dr. is gone already.

[zaggahamma]

calling dr. triton calling dr. triton........

[flatscat]

i dont think the medical profession wants healthy horny males running around

It is all a big consipiracy to turn us all into freakin women. Maybe at that point we can get all the estrogen and progesterone we need!
this is f'n bs. And where did that good Doc go?

[pacmann2010]

Sounds as if your trying to talk an MD into perscribing something he/she has no real expertise on. I tried what you did weeks ago and was perscribed a cream mix of testosterone @ 5%. Weak, very weak. My testosterone level was 258, I'm 54 yrs old.

I started looking around and found the Palm Beach life extention clinic in Florida. A Dr Jeffery Perell runs the show there and is an endocrinologist. My patient coordinator was a Mr Joeseph Gonzalez and they have a website that will advise you of all the criteria needed for a testosterone perscription.

I was required to see a local Doctor ( I live in Calif), fill out a patient quiry form then have the Doctor sign it thus Refering me to Dr Perell, undergo blood testing (already did that prior to contacting them, saw it coming). It was smooth.

DR Perell (may be spelled wrong) perscribed 10cc Testosterone Cypionate weekly as well as 10cc Nandraloan Decanoat (Decadurabolin) weekly. Tghis was done on Monday the 22nd of March and by Thursday my two vials of medications complete with syringes arrived at my door vie fedex.

A totally profesional clinic doing a great job.

Hope you can get help there.

[zaggahamma]

Sounds as if your trying to talk an MD into perscribing something he/she has no real expertise on. I tried what you did weeks ago and was perscribed a cream mix of testosterone @ 5%. Weak, very weak. My testosterone level was 258, I'm 54 yrs old.

I started looking around and found the Palm Beach life extention clinic in Florida. A Dr Jeffery Perell runs the show there and is an endocrinologist. My patient coordinator was a Mr Joeseph Gonzalez and they have a website that will advise you of all the criteria needed for a testosterone perscription.

I was required to see a local Doctor ( I live in Calif), fill out a patient quiry form then have the Doctor sign it thus Refering me to Dr Perell, undergo blood testing (already did that prior to contacting them, saw it coming). It was smooth.

DR Perell (may be spelled wrong) perscribed 10cc Testosterone Cypionate weekly as well as 10cc Nandraloan Decanoat (Decadurabolin) weekly. Tghis was done on Monday the 22nd of March and by Thursday my two vials of medications complete with syringes arrived at my door vie fedex.

A totally profesional clinic doing a great job.

Hope you can get help there.

Welcome pacmann/palm beach life

[Vettester]

Dr. Triton has left the building.

[durak]

Where you forced to buy AIs?

[ecsaaron]

Sounds like another hit and run Doctor.He probaly got nervous and paranoid being on this site.Thought big brother was watching and he was giving medical advice without physicaly seeing the guy in his office.

[ecsaaron]

Or realized he couldnt charge him !