Test, tren, winny cycle

[ilalin]

Hi,
I'm a new member here with some experience in AAS. I am 6’, 183lbs, 7% bodyfat (caliper measured) 36 years old.

week 1-8 test e 250mg/week
week 1-5 tren a 37.5mg eod
week 3-10 oral stanozolol 50mg ed
week 2-9 hcg 250iu e3d
week 1-8 aromasin 25mg eod
week 1-5 cabergoline 0.5mg 2x/week
week 8-15 nolva 10mg ed
week 9-11 clomid 25mg ed

Before I get responses about changing the cycle, the reasons for it are the following:
250mg test/ week is enough for keeping me in the zone of normalcy. I don’t need anymore
tren at 37.5mg eod is fully active, I respond well to it. I don't need anymore.
stanozolol at 50mg ed is standard
hcg starting early because tren shuts me down in a matter of days. Excellent for avoiding post cycle crash for me.
aromasin 25mg eod since I aromatize very easily
cabergoline 0.5mg/week to keep my dopamine up, antagonize possibility of prolactin increase and prevent TSH production shutdown by normalizing leptin
nolva at 10mg ed since 10mg causes maximum receptor saturation anyways. Don't need anymore. Nolva starts early, first day of last test shot to prime the HPTA.
clomid is better at immediate HPTA prime but desenzitizes pituitary after a few weeks hence stop at week 3 and continue with nolva. Nolva is better at increasing the sensitivity of pituitary to GnRH.
I’m doing the cycle to gain some lean mass and harden up. I would like to keep as much as possible post-cycle.

8 weeks is perfect for me, after this the body does not respond as well to anabolics.

OK,
I’ve been researching the topic of AAS usage for years but am still unclear about certain aspects and that’s why I’m here.

My current training is HST (Hypertrpohy specific). Cardio 6x week at 45min each. During the anabolic phase I will follow the reload/deload program from this site. I still have to read it in detail.
My current diet is 1.5g protein/lb bw. Carbs are eaten only around workouts (around 60g). Fat at 80-100g/day

My question is, how would you adjust your diet so to maximize results from this cycle from a personal experience?
Excuse my ignorance if this has been answered so many times before…
Thanks for your time and help

[redz]

I don't like that cycle at all, it's all wrong.

[RANA]

There a few reasons I don't like it.
It will take 3-4 weeks for you test to kick in and you are using a long ester.
Then you are using tren A (short ester) and it takes 3-6 days to kick in. That is why you might be shutting down hard.
You PCT is wrong, you are starting with synthetic test in your system.
I could go on but those are the big points

[ilalin]

I don't like that cycle at all, it's all wrong.

OK,
what's wrong

[ilalin]

There a few reasons I don't like it.
It will take 3-4 weeks for you test to kick in and you are using a long ester.
Then you are using tren A (short ester) and it takes 3-6 days to kick in. That is why you might be shutting down hard.
You PCT is wrong, you are starting with synthetic test in your system.
I could go on but those are the big points

I can frontload

[redz]

130mg of Tren a week is a waste, 8 weeks of Test E is too short, 8 weeks of oral winny is a pretty long time to run that. Why would you take Clomid while still on anabolics? seriously the whole cycle is wrong.

[RANA]

I can frontload

Yes you can with prop.
You might want to look at doing ED injections with tren, it can lessen the sides
Here is a read on tren for you: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=413262

[RANA]

130mg of Tren a week is a waste, 8 weeks of Test E is too short, 8 weeks of oral winny is a pretty long time to run that. Why would you take Clomid while still on anabolics? seriously the whole cycle is wrong.

yep^^^

[ilalin]

Note, I'm not trying to be stubborn, just getting various opinions of their respective owners.
Thanks
In that sense,
130mg/week of tren does work for me perfectly. I'm talking from experience.

Muscletrainee from Anabolic Extreme that has many clients says:
One of the things you have to deal with, when you visit the AE board, is that you are gonna see points of view that differ from those you find elsewhere. Here, we come to this game with an open mind to the potential that the "experts", elsewhere, might not have the only good ideas. I should also mention that this is a reflection of the nature of my own personality.

The other thing is that many of these "experts" and their "knowledge" is presented for their own personal gain, and not to do you, or your goals, any good at all. Here, I do not permit commercial activities, and I want to hear about, and learn from, other points of view. On other boards, if you dare to express a point of view which differs from that of the "experts", you may get roasted alive, or even banned from that board. AE is not here to manipulate you, or take your money.

Unless you use your point of view to insult or attack someone, here, your point of view is always welcome.

So, in the example of recommending trenbolone acetate at 37.5 mg EOD, if you do a cycle like that, you will use exactly half the tren that you would use, if you did it like you will be told on other boards. That means you only have to buy half the tren, and that cuts into the financial gain made by the sources(and the board owner who charges a fee to sources) who hang out on most other BBing boards.

Remember, there is often a reason for the advice you get elsewhere, and it doesn't have to do with doing you(and your wallet) any good. Always, ALWAYS, think about the advice you get, online, and that includes mine. Blind faith is not a good idea.

Blade (also a lot of personal clients) from Bodyrecomposition forums says:

250-300IU e3d is sufficient. Do not use HCG when coming off, it's for maintaining testicular function while you're on, you want to stimulate the body's own LH production when coming off. You can start Nolva at 10mg/day when you do your last injection of a long-acting ester, or one week prior to the last injection of a short-acting ester. Continue for 6-8 weeks. Nolvadex is better at priming the HPTA axis for endogenous T production and works better longer term.

Start Clomid at 25mg/day one week after last injection of long-acting, or the day after last injection of short-acting. Continue for 3 weeks then stop. Clomid is better at short term and immediate stimulation of LH, but tends to have more side-effects pver time so should be stopped earlier.


Hence, my cycle..

[RANA]

Well you came here for advice, not sure why since you know what you want to do so good luck!

[ilalin]

My question was
how would you adjust your diet so to maximize results from this cycle from a personal experience?
Thanks anyways

[ilalin]

Also,
slight mistake and a change to the protocol...Thanks RANA

week 1 test e 250mg 2 x week
week 2-8 test e 250mg/week
week 3-7 tren a 37.5mg eod
week 3-8 oral stanozolol 50mg ed NOT 3-10 as previously stated
week 3-8 hcg 250iu e3d
week 1-8 aromasin 25mg eod
week 1-5 cabergoline 0.5mg 2x/week
week 8-15 nolva 10mg ed
week 9-11 clomid 25mg ed

[bernimx]

I will let someone else answer diet wise, but for the cycle you're running, I THINK that it would look pretty good if you switched your test to a proprionate ester. Did anyone tell you you could start your PCT while still under the effects of your long estered test? (~2 weeks after your last injection)

Also, a 8 week PCT seems pretty long to me for a 8 week cycle.

[ilalin]

Hey Bernimx,
unfortunately I don't have access to prop at this time otherwise I'd use it.
Blade (very knowledgable guy) from Bodyrecomposition, Cuttingedgemuslce and other forums says you could/should start your PCT while still under the effects of your long estered test? (~2 weeks after your last injection) to prime your pituitary.
Yes 8 weeks is long, I like to go for 8 to be on a safe side...

[redz]

I wouldnt start the clomid until 2 weeks after last Test E shot.

[ilalin]

Nolva dosage is in light of this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3931502

HCG is in light of this:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595

[redz]

You realise that Nolva study is from 1985 right?

[ilalin]

I wouldnt start the clomid until 2 weeks after last Test E shot.

Valid point
Will change that

[ilalin]

You realise that Nolva study is from 1985 right?

yes,
but it's a valid study

[ilalin]

I thought about a little longer and came to a conclusion that tren will be started at the same time as test e.
Why?
Because availability of exogenous test does not have anything with preventing shutdown. Yes, you might feel better as extra test is flowing in the system along tren but that's all there is to it..FEEL better.
Test along with tren will cause even greater negative feedback to HPTA hence a stronger shutdown. The statement that exogenous test will somehow prevent shutdown is laughable at best.
The best way to truly prevent shutdown is to take an anti-androgen along an anti-estrogen and why would we do that?
The second best method is HCG to coax your testes into endogenous test production and make a post-cycle therapy easier.
Until people understand this point they're going to have problems during cycle and not know why. Unfortunately, the boards are often a source of misinformation and individuals that think they figured out everything until they face serious health consequences as a result of their inadvertent actions.
Now go and be angry with my comments..

[Kdub]

Sounds like you have your cycled dialed in. 8 weeks of Enanthate appears to work well for you... great.

With "small" doses of test and tren others must be jealous. Any sides to speak of with your protocol?

What are your goals?

The standard cycle structuring amongst members here is different that your experiences so do what yields you results. I have been leaning more and more towards less test and up the anabolics. In the past my mentality has been running test higher but now I won't go over 500 mgs a week and might even consider 250 mgs a week but up the Primo or Eq or Deca to 1000 mgs per week. Painful pumps are restrictive and counter productive.

I see you like your Winstrol at 50 mg per day so nothing radical here either.

Do you have a nice base of musculature to work with? Are you looking to sculpt and condition?

Regarding your diet; do you respond better on a low carb option?

Are you able to digest protein and starchy carbs together?

I don't use HCG on cycle but use it for the first 3 weeks into PCT. My nuts do not shrink even on Deca. I am one of the lucky ones.

[ilalin]

Sounds like you have your cycled dialed in. 8 weeks of Enanthate appears to work well for you... great.

With "small" doses of test and tren others must be jealous. Any sides to speak of with your protocol?

What are your goals?

The standard cycle structuring amongst members here is different that your experiences so do what yields you results. I have been leaning more and more towards less test and up the anabolics. In the past my mentality has been running test higher but now I won't go over 500 mgs a week and might even consider 250 mgs a week but up the Primo or Eq or Deca to 1000 mgs per week. Painful pumps are restrictive and counter productive.

I see you like your Winstrol at 50 mg per day so nothing radical here either.

Do you have a nice base of musculature to work with? Are you looking to sculpt and condition?

Regarding your diet; do you respond better on a low carb option?

Are you able to digest protein and starchy carbs together?

I don't use HCG on cycle but use it for the first 3 weeks into PCT. My nuts do not shrink even on Deca. I am one of the lucky ones.

Thanks for the comments
My goals?
let's see...
long term definitely not a mass monster (it's not like I can do it anyways)
I would say a proportionate, art-like physique, with significant muscle and extra definition. In terms of lean muscle mass my ultimate goal is 190lbs. So at 5% bf that's a weight of 200lbs...Frank Zane-ish, at least for one summer… I chose this goal after carefull consideration of the effects of measures I have to take to reach it. I also know what I don't want: damaged HPTA, arterial and heart damage, and the rest that comes with heavy use. So, I try to strike a balance, call it responsible usage. Others have different goals and that's OK. Others need 300-400mg tren a week, I don't. Others believe whatever they read, I try to see how my body responds. I found that 250mg test e/week for 8 and 50mg stanozolol ed for 6 weeks gave what I asked for. About 10lbs of fat loss and 3-4 lbs lean mass. I held on to it easily post cycle. Since my body aromatizes test very easily I won't go over 250mg/week. It's just not necessary. So asked myself how to saturate androgen receptors better so I can get a nice anabolic response without too much test and inadvertent aromatization. Tren binds to AR 3x as strong as test. Perfect. A nice blend of a relatively weak androgen but a good anabolic stanozolol plus an extremely strong androgen tren and some test (mix of both, strong androgen and strong anabolic) to keep the body functions in line was the answer for me. A little bit of all three for a great combo (sounds like a fast food ad). But, that's what it is. I want a combo that will nudge me in the right direction, nothing more, nothing less.
Regarding diet, I'm very sensitive to carbs and get bloated easily. Last time on cycle with minimal carbs (100-150g/day) I was able to gain some lean mass. I can digest almost anything easily including protein and starchy carbs combo.
Anyways, if you have any suggestions regarding the diet let me know. As I said the next 8 weeks on should be a bodyrecomp/lean mass addition deal.
Cheers
P.S. To answer your other question, as stated previously, I'm 6', 183lbs, 7%bf without any current use of anabolics and very proportional body.