How many grams of protein is ok coming from powder

[LiftedDuramax2007]

If im taking in 350g of protein a day would it be ok to take in 100g of it from whey and casein protein powder? And then the rest from meats, nuts, wheat, brown rice?

[RoadToRecovery]

2-3 Scoops a day is acceptable but this is a widely debatable topic.

The problem with getting your protein from nuts,wheat, and brown rice is that these foods are not considered complete proteins. You would have to mix and match to get a complete protein which would get confusing. For example, you would have to have peanut butter and whole wheat together in order to make a complete protein.

[LiftedDuramax2007]

2-3 Scoops a day is acceptable but this is a widely debatable topic.

The problem with getting your protein from nuts,wheat, and brown rice is that these foods are not considered complete proteins. You would have to mix and match to get a complete protein which would get confusing. For example, you would have to have peanut butter and whole wheat together in order to make a complete protein.

See I always wondered that. So even though the bread says 5g of protein per slice Im not getting a complete protein until I add something that compliments it?

My wheat bread usually has tuna with it, dont know if that compliments it or not. But then I eat PB straight up since I usually eat 1tbsp before bed. Didnt want to add a slice of wheat in with it because of the extra 20g of carbs right before bed. Im on a cycle trying to add mass but still trying to keep it nice and clean

[RoadToRecovery]

See I always wondered that. So even though the bread says 5g of protein per slice Im not getting a complete protein until I add something that compliments it? Exactly.

My wheat bread usually has tuna with it, dont know if that compliments it or not. But then I eat PB straight up since I usually eat 1tbsp before bed. Didnt want to add a slice of wheat in with it because of the extra 20g of carbs right before bed. Im on a cycle trying to add mass but still trying to keep it nice and clean I just learned that peanut butter and a scoop of casein protein is extremely beneficial right before bed. How ever, having a complete protein and an incomplete protein does not make the whole meal complete. You need to look at it as a puzzle piece which is why I said it is confusing.

Bold

[Tyler694]

2-3 Scoops a day is acceptable but this is a widely debatable topic. ...

Interesting.

If this is true, I get too much protein from whey powder..

[RoadToRecovery]

Interesting.

If this is true, I get too much protein from whey powder..

How much would you say?

[mg1228]

Interesting.

If this is true, I get too much protein from whey powder..

whey should only b used pwo

[Damienm05]

Wait. I always assumed that a complete protein source could complete any other source. I guess that was a stupid assumption. I'd like some reading material on that subject. /thread hijack.

To the OP - You should limit your use of powders to PWO and casein before bed if possible and eat 4-6 meals containing meat/fish/egg protein every day.

[LiftedDuramax2007]

whey should only b used pwo

So no Caesin or whey before bed with some Peanut butter?

My post workout is usually 2 scoops of whey and some waximaize or some nuts or 2 slices of wheat bread

[mg1228]

yea--casein before bed---whey pwo only--it just digests so quickly there is no need for it any other time

[RoadToRecovery]

Wait. I always assumed that a complete protein source could complete any other source. I guess that was a stupid assumption. I'd like some reading material on that subject. /thread hijack.

To the OP - You should limit your use of powders to PWO and casein before bed if possible and eat 4-6 meals containing meat/fish/egg protein every day.

Nono... 2 incompletes will make a whole depending on their amino acid make up.
If you add a complete and incomplete protein together, you still have an incomplete protein.

[mg1228]

Nono... 2 incompletes will make a whole depending on their amino acid make up.
If you add a complete and incomplete protein together, you still have an incomplete protein.

u still have an incomplete---incomplete protein--the complete protein is still complete

[LatissimusaurousRex]

Yeah, whey will digest in like 20-30 mins, thats faster than anything. Even milk alone takes a couple hours. There's no other time other than PWO that you need it that quickly. Personally I drink one as soon as I wake up cause I feel like if I haven't eaten anything in the last 8-9 hours my body needs it now. Correct me if this is erroneous.

[LatissimusaurousRex]

So no Caesin or whey before bed with some Peanut butter?

My post workout is usually 2 scoops of whey and some waximaize or some nuts or 2 slices of wheat bread

stick to waximaize PWO for carbs, not wheat bread.

[mg1228]

Yeah, whey will digest in like 20-30 mins, thats faster than anything. Even milk alone takes a couple hours. There's no other time other than PWO that you need it that quickly. Personally I drink one as soon as I wake up cause I feel like if I haven't eaten anything in the last 8-9 hours my body needs it now. Correct me if this is erroneous.

i do 1 scoop whey and 1 casein when i get up--but i lift first thing

i can see a use for whey first thing in the am---if ur too lazy to cook some eggs--like i am most of the time

[LiftedDuramax2007]

stick to waximaize PWO for carbs, not wheat bread.

Why is that? Never really understood waximaize all I know is its a fast absorbing carb?

Also heres a dumb question but one Ive always wondered.

Would taking BCAAs before eating some incomplete protein will it complete the protein?

[mg1228]

stick to waximaize PWO for carbs, not wheat bread.

i would stick to any complex carb pwo--i like 3/4 cup oats---but to each there own

[LatissimusaurousRex]

i would stick to any complex carb pwo--i like 3/4 cup oats---but to each there own

It's been to my understanding you want a quickly digesting carb postworkout. I'm no diet guru though, I'm always open to hear something new!

And to the other guys question, Yes waxymaize is I think one of the fastest digesting carbs.

[mg1228]

It's been to my understanding you want a quickly digesting carb postworkout. I'm no diet guru though, I'm always open to hear something new!

And to the other guys question, Yes waxymaize is I think one of the fastest digesting carbs.

alot of guys do---ive tried both and i like slow carbs all the time---try it i think u will too

the idea behind simple carbs pwo is to replenish glycogen stores--well it can take 24 hrs to do that so why eat sugar

[Damienm05]

the idea behind simple carbs pwo is to replenish glycogen stores--well it can take 24 hrs to do that so why eat sugar

Well articulated.

[LiftedDuramax2007]

alot of guys do---ive tried both and i like slow carbs all the time---try it i think u will too

the idea behind simple carbs pwo is to replenish glycogen stores--well it can take 24 hrs to do that so why eat sugar

so even though its fast absorbing doesnt mean its worked yet? And it can take almost 24hrs to do so?

So you thinking I should throw the waximaize and stick with the wheat bread and whey for PWO?

[LatissimusaurousRex]

I see, I've always just used choco milk because its got way more sugar than normal milk with my shake. And PWO my priority goes Shake, Shower, then I cook real food. I just feel like I need to get my "nutrient fix" asap PWO and I see no quicker way than just straight liquid carbs and (whey) protein. Then probably no longer than an hour after that I eat real food just because by this time its usually been 2-3 hours since my last meal, and I'm usually Fing starving PWO

[LatissimusaurousRex]

Also although it contains a lot of sugar, milk isn't too high on the GI

[mg1228]

so even though its fast absorbing doesnt mean its worked yet? And it can take almost 24hrs to do so?

So you thinking I should throw the waximaize and stick with the wheat bread and whey for PWO?

it can take 24hrs to fully replenish glycogen stores--

i would give the waximaize to ur buddy(the one u really dont like) and then start eating oats with ur pwo shake---then real food 1 hr later

[RoadToRecovery]

it can take 24hrs to fully replenish glycogen stores--

While the time frame is true, that still doesnt mean that its not necessary. In fact, there are studies that support the idea that glycogen stores are not replenished completely by the next days workout depending on the carbohydrate intake.

[mg1228]

While the time frame is true, that still doesnt mean that its not necessary. In fact, there are studies that support the idea that glycogen stores are not replenished completely by the next days workout depending on the carbohydrate intake.

its def not neccessary--i like to stay lean, but thats just me

[RoadToRecovery]

its def not neccessary--i like to stay lean, but thats just me

Well wouldnt you deem full glycogen replenishment necessary for the next days work out?

[6ft5]

I believe that beans like pinto, black, northern, ect. Are a protein and fiber but an incomplete protein. And when you add rice to it, it becomes complete because beans lack one or two aminos. I'm lookn it up now. I've thought that for years. I will know for sure now ill get back.

[mg1228]

Well wouldnt you deem full glycogen replenishment necessary for the next days work out?

no i meant simple carbs arent neccessary--and i dont know if u can fully replenish glycogen by the next days wo--thats why i go 1 on 1 off

[6ft5]

no i meant simple carbs aren't neccessary--and i dont know if u can fully replenish glycogen by the next days wo--thats why i go 1 on 1 off

I'm glad I clicked this tread. A lot of good info. I like 1 on 1 off to cuz I always have a better workout that way now I know why. Thanks mg..
I also found a lot of good info at Nutrition Data, they have the aminos broke down with charts and stuff. I sped read threw it.. Seems very informative.
Beans and rice, also portabella mushrooms and corn ect.. I tried to take notes, but I ran outa ink.lol!

[Kratos]

If im taking in 350g of protein a day would it be ok to take in 100g of it from whey and casein protein powder? And then the rest from meats, nuts, wheat, brown rice?

why do you think you need 350 grams of protein?

[Tyler694]

How much would you say?

On workout days at least 4 scoops..

whey should only b used pwo

Yeah, I always use it pwo. Other times I use it, it is normally because it is so easy, quick, and convenient.

[rsnake21]

wow im so confused...lol

[awesome1]

thought i'd chime in... I started working out again for the last four weeks and have stopped using whey completely an I'm on a 100% real food diet including beef chicken and fish. I am seeing significant gains even without whey.

[RoadToRecovery]

no i meant simple carbs arent neccessary--and i dont know if u can fully replenish glycogen by the next days wo--thats why i go 1 on 1 off

I posted the actual study on the other forum that we were discussing glycogen replenishment.

After 4 h of recovery, 46.8% of the glycogen utilized during exercise had been replenished with the CHO-Pro treatment, 31.1% with the HCHO treatment, and 28.0% with the LCHO treatment.

This was achieved by making flavored aqueous solutions of HCHO and LCHO by using the same formula of sucrose and maltodextrin as the commercial CHO-Pro supplement.

Now I will state right up front to avoid confusion that maltodextrin IS a complex carbohydrate BUT only by its molecular structure. It is immediately absorbed just as if it were a simple carb being 100 on the GI scale. Sucrose is clearly table sugar.

[mg1228]

yea im gonna look at that study---see if u got that one on complex carbs pwo---so we can see if there is a real reason to spike insulin

[RoadToRecovery]

http://www.ultrunr.com/glycemic.html

Here is a quote from a paper that was written in '97 from the Gatorade Sports Sciences Exchange that briefly speaks of the purpose of the spike of glucose elevation.

A goal of feeding after exercise is to elevate glucose as soon as possible to provide substrate for glycogen synthesis; as reviewed by Robergs (1991), glycogen synthesis can occur more rapidly if carbohydrate is consumed quickly and in adequate amounts after exercise.

Unfortunately I havent come across any study in my possession that bases the study solely on the source of the carbohydrate. Gimme a day or 2 and Im sure I can locate one in a journal.

[gbrice75]

Not to go backwards here, but getting back to the incomplete protein topic for a moment - when I was planning my diets a few months ago, I wasn't counting protein from any incomplete sources (I wasn't eating anything complimentary to the other that would create complete protein). Nark told me that I definitely should be counting incomplete proteins, that your body basically 'stores' this protein until it can be combined with the missing amino acids from another source (although not purposely eaten together or at the same time of day).

What do you think about this? I wish Nark could see this and jump in here, I don't want to mispeak on his behalf.

[6ft5]

If you search vegan diets, I'm not a vegan, but they are very smart about getting a complete protein outa vegg and nuts n stuff. They were saying if your diet is well planed and rounded out, your body will store it for later use.

[C_Bino]

Not to go backwards here, but getting back to the incomplete protein topic for a moment - when I was planning my diets a few months ago, I wasn't counting protein from any incomplete sources (I wasn't eating anything complimentary to the other that would create complete protein). Nark told me that I definitely should be counting incomplete proteins, that your body basically 'stores' this protein until it can be combined with the missing amino acids from another source (although not purposely eaten together or at the same time of day).

What do you think about this? I wish Nark could see this and jump in here, I don't want to mispeak on his behalf.

Allow me to explain. There are two types oh protein complementation.

There is partial and true complementation.

Partial - combining a complete protein with an incomplete protein to complete the other protein source. But this WILL not increase the protein quality of the complete protein.

True - combining 2 incomplete protein to create the protein. This actually INCREASES the quality of the protein.

I'll show you an example of how this works. Each incomplete protein has a limiting factor or limiting AA. There is a scoring system to places proteins and amino acids in proportion to the optimal human requirements.

So for example lentils have a limiting factor of 44 in methionine and cystine. This basically means that out of a possible score of 100 necessary for OPTIMAL human requirements we only have 44. So if we combine it with another protein (complete or not) that has EXCESS methionine and cystine it can complete it. Lentils also happen to have a score of 111 for lysine.

Now, wheat for example has a score of 115 for methionine and cystine and only 48 for lysine. Therefore lentils and wheat can COMPLEMENT one another.

So alone only 44% of the protein in lentils can be used, and only 48% in wheat (as per their respective limiting amino acids).

WHen you combine them you add the 2 amino acid scores together and divide by 2.

111 + 48 = 159/2 = 80

and

115 + 44 = 159/2 = 80

Therefore, we can now use 80% of the protein, almost doubling the amount of protein our bodies can use.

So the total amino acid score in increased for the meal. When you have only partial complementation it would be impossible to increase the protein score as one is already complete.