Thoughts on test cream and my blood results

[rmacgurn]

Hi All

have been reading here a while and got the idea that you all believe that inj test is better then gels or creams. i want to revisit that so i understand why you made that choice.

i have been using the cream now for like 3.5 months, started with gel at 25mg/ml and then switched to 100mg/ml cream. putting it on the inside of my upper arms (hairless), back of knees or around ankles. last 3 blood works are:

2 week after starting 4/15/10 (base test total was 220)

test total 578
free test 14.5
E2 less then 20 (was taking 2x 1mg arimidex)
IGH-1 283
cholesterol total 291
HDL 48.5
LDL 167.3
triglycerides 102
LDL/HDL ratio 3.4

May 26 2010

test total 1,105
free test 27.6
E2 29 (changed dose to 2 x .5mg arimidex)
IGH-1 226 (was using Chinese brand)
cholesterol total 334 (started to take Niacin at 2gms a day, polycosanol, and 2 raw oatmeal shakes, and increased cardio using new routine)
HDL 54.1
LDL 260.5
triglycerides 97
LDL/HDL ratio 4.8
fasting glucose 97 (cut out sweets like ice cream and cookies)

June 18, 2010

test total 996
free test 24.9
E2 35 (now increase 3 x .5mg arimidex)
IGH-1 305 (change back to Saizen)
cholesterol total 238 (increased Niacin to 2.5 gms a day)
HDL 53.5
LDL 172.5
triglycerides 60
LDL/HDL ratio 3.2

July 7, 2010

Test total 1580
test free 39.5
E2 20.3
IGF-1 302
Cholesterol total 216
HDL 51.3
LDL 150.1
triglycerides 72
ldl/hlh ratio 2.9
Fasting glucose 86 (still higher then i want may try metformin)

So i am surprised my test is so high, still using the cream once a day, and applying 100mg (full ml). not seeing sides like acne or rage, but also not feeling much more energy then i did at 600. weight is steady and BF still dropping a bit due to new routines and tight diet. so what is the issue you all had with the cream vs. injection. I am starting to think that all test is not the same as i can remember years ago doing a cycle of Sustanon and pushing to 1500 and was an animal. nothing like that now?

thoughts....

[BillyBob210]

Wow! Great numbers from a gel. I would be more than happy with that. The only problem I have with the cream is the fact that I have a 3.5 yr old boy who likes to climb all over me. Tired of having to protect him and my wife from touching me/it. It's damn hot in Florida and I want to run around with a tank or no shirt!

[coop1212]

Those are good numbers on the test levels. Looks like y are taken care of your self. I also started with gel and cream but to much to worry with , two small girls and wife. Also injections at home are much much cheaper and no smell. I'm a big hunter! My test level stays about 700-750 on a cc of cyn.200 every Monday.

[Times Roman]

I'm doing transdermal as well. week #2. Libido is just now firing up. I've asked the same question too. Here's what I come up with:
1) Effectiveness - Not as effective as pinning due to absorption rate
2) Cost - Increased cost of test due to method of delivery. Patches and creams are significantly more expensive per mg. of test than simply buying it in it's powder or liquid form.
3) Contamination - others can become "contaminated" by touching you and absorb through their skin.... not good for either women or children.
4) Tradition - the traditional way is pinning. Some here are loath to admit that anything other than the traditional method can be effective. "Old habits die hard".

Did I miss anything?

[rmacgurn]

I'm doing transdermal as well. week #2. Libido is just now firing up. I've asked the same question too. Here's what I come up with:
1) Effectiveness - Not as effective as pinning due to absorption rate
2) Cost - Increased cost of test due to method of delivery. Patches and creams are significantly more expensive per mg. of test than simply buying it in it's powder or liquid form.
3) Contamination - others can become "contaminated" by touching you and absorb through their skin.... not good for either women or children.
4) Tradition - the traditional way is pinning. Some here are loath to admit that anything other than the traditional method can be effective. "Old habits die hard".

Did I miss anything?

OK, got those points but how much is real and how much is old wives tales...i put my test on as a cream/gel dosed at 100mg/ml comes in a 100ml bottle and costs $70 (compounding pharmacy) , lasts about 3 months. so cost is under $25/mo. I put it on around 9am after my second meal, and head to the gym at 11am, where i sweet a lot. so if it is not absorbed by then it is gone. yet my levels are way higher then i wanted (1000-1200). so i think most is absorbed in an hour or so. Will be switching to 50mg/ml when this bottle is out. not many people touch me behind the knees, or on the inside of my bicep so that is not an issue and no young ones around this old man any more...except for my girlfriends and a little test is gone for them..haha. so i still am not sure why everyone likes the injectable more...unless as i said it is somehow different test, i know when i did do sustanon i felt like a gorilla at levels of 1200-1400 but raged a lot, now nothing like that. besides i can't stick myself in the arse, and don't like it in the quads, so that leaves shoulder and all the data says it is much less effective when not injected in the butt.

[Vettester]

I started TRT originally on AndroGel. After about 5 months I started to feel sluggish. It also seemed like I was going backwards at the gym. My doc ran some BW and my lipids were screwed up. When I started doing some research I read where people were experiencing unstable results with using topical products like gel, similar to what I had experienced.

Started using Cypionate thereafter and never felt better. What I would personally like to explore is the newer injection therapy called Nebido. It is available in many countries and members like Marcus300 say nothing but good things about it. However, our government won't approve it for use in the US. I'm sure it's only because they're concerned about our welfare and health

[zaggahamma]

i like how youre monitoring your trt with much bloodwork...keeping an eye on that e2.....
please add how you've felt b4 and each month, etc., gains, anything else you may wish to add...

your ldl looks high...are u considering meds for that

[rmacgurn]

i like how youre monitoring your trt with much bloodwork...keeping an eye on that e2.....
please add how you've felt b4 and each month, etc., gains, anything else you may wish to add...

your ldl looks high...are u considering meds for that

I am on a self designed program, self administer, and self adjusted. partly because of where i live, and insurance here is for medical conditions only, not anti-aging or hormone therapy. Blood work is necessary for me to tweek what i am doing, and does not require a script. Cost is also much less then up north in most cases.

MY cholesterol has been high all my life, genetic. has been 230-260 for last 20 years, but since starting the oatmeal shakes with cinnamon and tumeric, 20 mgs of polycosanol and 3gms of Niacin a day, plus 3 days of 45 min cardio it has dropped down 105pts. i have never believed total choles, or LDL is worth much in predicting heart or CV risk. the reports show otherwise too. CRP, AlipoA and AlipoB or LDL classification (dense / fluffy) are better markers. I would never take a statin, that whole deal is a major scam by the drug COs.

[talstar]

My total test was 126 on nothing. It went to 236 on 10g of andrgel per day. On 200mg of cyp every 6 days it is 695. I wish the gel would have worked, but that's life.

[rmacgurn]

My total test was 126 on nothing. It went to 236 on 10g of andrgel per day. On 200mg of cyp every 6 days it is 695. I wish the gel would have worked, but that's life.

In my case the good resits from gel/cream may be synergistic with the use of HGH or keto DHEA, or some of the many other sups i have or am taking....

[nwjt]

I chose injections for two reasons:
1) I have young kids (3 years old and a 1 year old)
2) My insurance doesn't cover the gel.

The gel would be nice, I could rub a little on my wife lol.

[zaggahamma]

I am on a self designed program, self administer, and self adjusted. partly because of where i live, and insurance here is for medical conditions only, not anti-aging or hormone therapy. Blood work is necessary for me to tweek what i am doing, and does not require a script. Cost is also much less then up north in most cases.

MY cholesterol has been high all my life, genetic. has been 230-260 for last 20 years, but since starting the oatmeal shakes with cinnamon and tumeric, 20 mgs of polycosanol and 3gms of Niacin a day, plus 3 days of 45 min cardio it has dropped down 105pts. i have never believed total choles, or LDL is worth much in predicting heart or CV risk. the reports show otherwise too. CRP, AlipoA and AlipoB or LDL classification (dense / fluffy) are better markers. I would never take a statin, that whole deal is a major scam by the drug COs.

kudos....also like how you have youre own health in YOURE OWN hands...shame your medical insurance isnt on board as well but hey nothin more important than our own health
i too inherited high lipoprotein a so i have to have everything else in check

[n00bs]

I started TRT originally on AndroGel. After about 5 months I started to feel sluggish. It also seemed like I was going backwards at the gym. My doc ran some BW and my lipids were screwed up. When I started doing some research I read where people were experiencing unstable results with using topical products like gel, similar to what I had experienced.

Started using Cypionate thereafter and never felt better. What I would personally like to explore is the newer injection therapy called Nebido. It is available in many countries and members like Marcus300 say nothing but good things about it. However, our government won't approve it for use in the US. I'm sure it's only because they're concerned about our welfare and health

That would of been because of e2. Were you
Monitering e2 corectly i.e ultra sensetive test or urinary?

[Vettester]

That would of been because of e2. Were you
Monitering e2 corectly i.e ultra sensetive test or urinary?

No, my primary wouldn't monitor it or even acknowledge it, but that's when I started going a different route. My E2 score was <40 as crazy as it sounds before I took my first shot. I would have suspected the same thing with what I know now, but the labs from that time just don't show it to be the case.