Beginner cycle + avoiding body hair growth (not the normal questions you get!!)

[deadly101]

This would be my first cycle ever of steroids, I have never done steroids or PH before
I've made alot of research on the subject of steroid. I've read many books and articles. The most common first cycle is Testosterone E or C at 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks (just to assure you that i know what you're probably going to say).
Hopefully, I'm going to take my first cycle when i'm 21 years old and 4 months (5 months from now).
as for training by the time i start the cycle i would've been training for 3 years and 10.5 months continuously almost 4 years.
I've started at 132 LBS and now I'm 165 LBS

My stats:
I'm 5'7" I weigh 165LBS, my age is mentioned above and my experience in working out too(in case you didnt read the post from the beginning ).

The only two problems that i have with Test as a first cycle is i'm worried when it comes excessive hair growth and especially hair growth on the back and shoulders. currently i have like very few hair on my chest almost not visible unless you focus on my chest. and i have no hair on my back. but there are tiny bumps on my chest and some part on my back. my arms are not hairy. also i dont have a beard except on my chin just below my mouth.

The second problem would be that i heard it totally shuts down the natural testosterone after 10 weeks making recovery fast. is that true?

so is there an alternative to test e that can make me avoid the excessive hair growth problem, coz i've read that some people were like me (hair wise) and had excessive hair growth. you might think this is gayish, but i dont want the girls to know me as "the hairy guy". I've read that DBOL only is a good first cycle for beginners in the layman's guide to steroids.

[Atomini]

Some here will say you should wait a few more years before beginning, or at least try to get to 200 naturally before you start.

Whether or not youll get excessive hair growth depends on your genetics. I finnd that I had more body hair after cycling than I did before I started. BUT you will most likely grow more hair in places where you already have hair (i.e. where you are already genetically predispositioned to having it).

But I have found that personally some of it ends up shedding.

[sprinter911]

Just be sure you don't get hairy palms. That's a tough one to explain when you meet new people and shake their hands. lol

I agree with atomini. Some extra hair growth should be expected. Shave it off if you don't like it.

You should wait a few more years before considering your cycle though IMO.

--Sprint

[deadly101]

btw i have 9.6% body fat
p.s. i have hair legs below the knee.
200 LBS naturally at 5'7"!!!!!!! is that possible?!! I'd love for it to be
so is it possible to reach this guy (kane sumabat) naturally ?

[TKO Performance]

That guy is shredded, but not super massive, so I would say yes, you can achieve that naturally. You need to learn about diet and training, not steroids at your age. You are too young. 25 is considered minimum age to start any steroid use. Your natural test levels are already much higher than the older guys running juice to stay at the top of their game. I've said it many times, but I'd give almost anything to know at your age what I know now. I advise that you proceed naturally until at least 25, and would be more than happy to help you in that endeavor. Post back or PM me.

[HawaiianPride.]

I know that guy from physique book. Very impressive anatomy.

[deadly101]

That guy is shredded, but not super massive, so I would say yes, you can achieve that naturally. You need to learn about diet and training, not steroids at your age. You are too young. 25 is considered minimum age to start any steroid use. Your natural test levels are already much higher than the older guys running juice to stay at the top of their game. I've said it many times, but I'd give almost anything to know at your age what I know now. I advise that you proceed naturally until at least 25, and would be more than happy to help you in that endeavor. Post back or PM me.

well i'm going to state my diet in the least portions per day:
at least:
first i've been training for 3 years and 6 months, the most notable gains i've made was during my first 2 years after that i think i havent improved.

as an assessment for my strength
my bench press is 242 lbsX5
my squat is 264 lbsX10
my deadlift is 396 lbs x 5
180 gm of protein per day
90 gm of fat per day
90 gm of carbs per day.

by the end of this week i'll hopefully be getting creatine, glutamine and universal uniliver.
the only supplement that i'm currently using is whey protein.
I'm very interested in your theory on training. coz i've had some confusing thoughts, some people advocate high volume, some people advocate low volume (mike mentzer athletic routine of training once every seven days). for example the best time i made gains on my upper forearms was when i was doing them every other day with 2 normal 10 rep set and a 3rd drop set in the end. now when i've been doing it once per week the vascularity in my forearms is fading away and i think the size too.

[wolffish]

dude.. you're 21 and 5'7" do you really wanna miss any chance you have of getting taller?!? cause thats what might happen if you cycle now..

i didn't stop growing til 22 and chicks are supposed to mature earlier than boys..

[lovbyts]

I think 200 lbs at 5' 7" is a little much but you can reach 190 naturally Im sure with proper diet, maybe 200.

I would say the guy in your picture if he was 5' 7" he would weigh in around 180+ He is pretty lean, probably 7% body fat. It's a good look. Im hoping to be there in another year buy maybe more size...

21 really is to young for reasons we all post 50x a day to people under 25 and the reasons are true. Yes there are some of us who used before they where 25 and many who wished they had waited. I was one of the lucky ones who didnt. I had it available at 18 but choose not to. I ALMOST did at 24 and again at 28 but decided I was not ready and it was a good choice.

Dont be in a rush, the consequences are not worth the risks.

[MACHINE5150]

well i'm going to state my diet in the least portions per day:
at least:
first i've been training for 3 years and 6 months, the most notable gains i've made was during my first 2 years after that i think i havent improved.

as an assessment for my strength
my bench press is 242 lbsX5
my squat is 264 lbsX10
my deadlift is 396 lbs x 5
180 gm of protein per day
90 gm of fat per day
90 gm of carbs per day.

by the end of this week i'll hopefully be getting creatine, glutamine and universal uniliver.
the only supplement that i'm currently using is whey protein.
I'm very interested in your theory on training. coz i've had some confusing thoughts, some people advocate high volume, some people advocate low volume (mike mentzer athletic routine of training once every seven days). for example the best time i made gains on my upper forearms was when i was doing them every other day with 2 normal 10 rep set and a 3rd drop set in the end. now when i've been doing it once per week the vascularity in my forearms is fading away and i think the size too.

re: the weights you work out with... impressive numbers at your size

i would up your protien intake.. usually wanna take 1.5grams per pound you weigh.. regarding training.. a rule of thumb is that the lower the reps the higher your strength and denser your muscles.. .the highter rep range 8-12 gives you larger looking muscles but are not as dense/hard

the guy in the pic is a good goal, one that is achievable with your stats.

[deadly101]

yeah i've been focusing on a rep range of 6-8 reps during the last year and a half, maybe thats the problem. btw is it normal not being able to see anyones public profile ( i cant even see my profile page ), i cant send PMs it says awaiting activation. how long does it take to activate this profile.

[BennyLom]

I took some Test and I'm getting hair growth everywhere, even under my feet... Hair growth is the number one side effect to be worried about when using AAS...

Seriously, I haven't noticed it and I doubt many people see much difference in that respect. I also doubt they give a shit. Worry about the serious issues instead kid.

[nilrac]

Alot more serious sides to worry about when it comes to AAS use.

[Parabolic]

Yep hair growth is least of your worries srs...hope you've spent more time prioritising what happens if gyno apppears.

[deadly101]

i have considered the side effects carefully and every single one of them. for gyno i would be using nolvadex starting day 1 at 20 gm per day. as for my height i intend to have my growth plates x-rayed to see if i can still grow taller or not. I've also planned the PCT. and i plan on doing one cycle per year, maybe on cycle in my life. but what i cant prevent is hair growth thats why it's my main concern now. but from what you've been telling me here is that i should wait, if it's possible for me to gain 10 lbs of muscle after a year of training i will definitely wait.

[TKO Performance]

well i'm going to state my diet in the least portions per day:
at least:
first i've been training for 3 years and 6 months, the most notable gains i've made was during my first 2 years after that i think i havent improved.

as an assessment for my strength
my bench press is 242 lbsX5
my squat is 264 lbsX10
my deadlift is 396 lbs x 5
180 gm of protein per day
90 gm of fat per day
90 gm of carbs per day.

by the end of this week i'll hopefully be getting creatine, glutamine and universal uniliver.
the only supplement that i'm currently using is whey protein.
I'm very interested in your theory on training. coz i've had some confusing thoughts, some people advocate high volume, some people advocate low volume (mike mentzer athletic routine of training once every seven days). for example the best time i made gains on my upper forearms was when i was doing them every other day with 2 normal 10 rep set and a 3rd drop set in the end. now when i've been doing it once per week the vascularity in my forearms is fading away and i think the size too.

I advocate medium volume, high intensity, but not the "Heavy Duty" approach of Mike Mentzer. Training like that for 95% of people will only lead to sore joints, connective tissue damage and frustration. 6-8 reps is good for mass, but you shouldn't do that all the time. I'd still like to see you up to 10 reps for some flat sets. Heavy pyramids is where you'll build strength and size. High volume can work too, but you need years of effort to develop enough recovery ability to train like that. Ultimately I feel it builds big physiques, but they are short on strength. All the muscle fibers may have become thicker, but they still don't match the steel cable like fibers you find in the cross section of a powerlifter's muscles. That's why I'm a big fan of mixing it up and cross training (some powerlifts and some bodybuilding). You get the best of both worlds. I agree that your stats are quite impressive for your weight. I'd peg your max bench around 275 and your max squat at over 300 for single reps.

Diet wise I agree that you should be at 1.5xweight in lbs a day for protein. Try to do that without adding any fat, as you're right about where you want to be with that already. I would also advocate taking in at least 1x to 1.5x your body weight in complex carbs a day. I know this low carb thing is all the rage, but carbs are stored as glycogen, and without that you can't go hard, so you can't gain. Without enough carbs you enter premature lactic acid metabolism (the burn), and you can't push hard after your muscles have already failed. Carbs after dinner is a no on though, and like I said, to shed down you need to be doing some serious cardio. At least an hour three times a week. Try to set your diet at maintenance for caloric intake, and split it 20/40/40 calories from fat/protein/carbs respectively. It will probably take you a couple of weeks to dial in your exact caloric intake. If you aren't losing weight, but aren't gaining either you probably need to eat more. Cutting BF is not like losing weight. You almost have to overfeed your body so it willing gives up its fat stores to be burned during exercise. Too few calories and your body goes into protect the fat mode and you either don't lose weight, or worse you risk losing muscle. It's complicated, but post back if you have questions.

FYI, you can't PM yet because you don't have enough posts. Just keep posting back here until you get enough and you'll be able to do it.

[lovbyts]

As for the hair growth, I have noticed it. The hair on my arms and legs is about 1/4% longer than it was before. Also I have never had any hair on my back or shoulder except for very fine blond hair. Now I have some, nothing noticeable at first glance but it's there now and I hate it. Also the facial hair seems to grow faster and some is more course and some more fine. I have all these now little fine hairs that like to cause bumps and ingrown areas I never use to get. I cant seem to get away from it except for having them pulled ever few days.

[deadly101]

Actually last workout i did 275 for 2 reps. I was hoping to actually reach 308 lbs for 3-5 reps, also i was hoping for a 396lbs squat for 3-5 reps by mid june 2011 (about a year from now). my increase in strength makes this not so hard coz i have recently started to train my legs seriously. but my increase in size is nothing compared to that of my strength .
what do you say when you mean medium volume? also what do you mean by try to add protein without any fat? i have no problem in adding some fat, i can always get rid of it later. as long as it's possible to gain 9-10 lbs of muscle by july. actually do you think i make these gains? i'm not just dedicated i have no problem in throwing up from intensity, i have actually broken my finger nail while working and had blood dropping from i my finger and continued training.

My current training cycle:
chest, triceps (light volume only two exercises)
back, biceps( light volume only two exercises)
OFF
Delts and traps
Legs, abs, forearms
Biceps and triceps
OFF
Repeat.

i try to do 4-5 exercises per body part with 4 sets and currently i'm trying to do higher rep ranges 8-10

but do i need to reach failure in every set?

[deadly101]

@TKO perfomance in the post above i meant 9-10 lbs of muscle naturally.

@lovbyts that is actually what made me so scared of taking test, i was afraid i might have hair on shoulders and back. other sides can be avoided except this one.

[junkiescumbag]

hair removal gel? put that shit everywhere. i put it all over my gooch ass balls and pubes. being hairless is the way to go, luckily i dont have much leg hair or any back hair.

jesus any guess on that blokes bf%???

[deadly101]

you want to know the bodyfat percentage of the guy in that pic?

[junkiescumbag]

yeah im making that my goal

[deadly101]

he's called kane sumabat he's 40, he's a trainer in controlled labs.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kane_sumabat.htm
http://controlledlabs.com/show.php?section=Trainer

his stats are here height , weight etc.. i dont know about his bf% http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/timberwolf/

[TKO Performance]

You are overtraining your bis and tris. Cut back to once a week. A better routine would be:

Mon: chest/upper back(incl. traps)
Tues: cardio
Wed: bis/tris/shoulders
Thurs: cardio
Fri: legs/lower back
Sat: cardio
Sun: off

This is a good push/pull complimentary routine.

Adding 9-10 lbs. of muscle in a year should not be a problem naturally.

Why do you want to cut fat? Simple, fat is calorically dense at 9 calories per gram vs. 4 for carbs or protein. More fat means less room in your diet for lean protein under the same max calories. Look up some pre-contest diets for bodybuilders. You'll see stuff like boiled chicken, etc. the goal being no fat. These guys are doing exactly what you're trying to do, cut BF without losing muscle.

BTW, I'd say our buddy Kane is somewhere in the 6-8% range. That's low and hard to maintain, especially at 40. Damn impressive.

[junkiescumbag]

hes almost disgustingly shredded

[deadly101]

no i'm not trying to lose fat, i'm on a 90gm fat per day, i'm thinking of eating 3500 calories per day i cant eat more because i cant find room in my stomach for more food . but currently i stopped doing cardio and i'm on a bulking phase coz from what i've read losing fat and gaining muscle cant happen simultaneously. i will start my cutting phase in mid may. i'm not in a hurry at all to lose bf.

[deadly101]

yeah i agree i might be over training the biceps and triceps. i was just trying this out. but what i'm thinking of is making abs and obliques twice per week. what do you think?

[TKO Performance]

You can absolutely lose BF and gain muscle at the same time. I've done it plenty. It is by no means easy though. Your diet has to be 100% on point all the time with no BS. It's up to you, but I would never seek to gain BF if I knew I was going to cut down later. That sounds too much like the old school bulk and cut routine the BBs did in the 70s. What they found out was that they had a terrible time losing the last 5-10lbs. and that they only gained the same muscle they would have if they'd stayed lean. They put their bodies through a rollercoaster doing it too, which is never good. I would personally just seek to make solid lean gains.

FYI, 90gm of fat in a 3,500 calories diet sounds fine as long as its mostly unsaturated. You do need some fat like Omegas, etc.

[deadly101]

I meant if having muscle needs to be accompanied by fat gains then its something i have to deal with. but if i can make gains without fat that is just fantastic!!!

actually most of my diet fat comes from milk, coz i like whole milk. i'll try to find some flax seed oil but it's hard to find it where i live (actually i still cant find it till now but i wont give up).
I would really like some advice on creatine, i use it with a loading phase of 20 gm per day for 5 days and then 5 gm per day. my creatine cycle is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. is that ok ?

as for the BS with diet, i cant do BS diet anymore. after i stay on a clean diet for 2 months if i try junk food my stomach gets really upset and it's not pleasant at all.

[e.nergie]

btw i have 9.6% body fat
p.s. i have hair legs below the knee.
200 LBS naturally at 5'7"!!!!!!! is that possible?!! I'd love for it to be
so is it possible to reach this guy (kane sumabat) naturally ?

he is all natural

[deadly101]

i hope he's natural. but it's hard to believe so, the guy is 40 years old. at that age he has very low hormones and i dont think they can sustain that muscle mass.

[nilrac]

He could easily be natural, but if he is his diet, training and genetics are disgustingly bang on. Funny though at a "mere" 184Lbs (at 5ft 10") he is a big dude. Obviously bf% is way down in single digits, but regardless he is way off the "200Lb club"... .

[LouHulk]

I use the clippers for shaving my head to get rid of all the excess hair from the roids. But folks are right hair is the least of your worries. Gyno and estro sides are much more harmful and embarrassing.

[TKO Performance]

I meant if having muscle needs to be accompanied by fat gains then its something i have to deal with. but if i can make gains without fat that is just fantastic!!!

actually most of my diet fat comes from milk, coz i like whole milk. i'll try to find some flax seed oil but it's hard to find it where i live (actually i still cant find it till now but i wont give up).
I would really like some advice on creatine, i use it with a loading phase of 20 gm per day for 5 days and then 5 gm per day. my creatine cycle is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. is that ok ?

as for the BS with diet, i cant do BS diet anymore. after i stay on a clean diet for 2 months if i try junk food my stomach gets really upset and it's not pleasant at all.

I personally don't drink a lot of milk, and when I do it's 1% or skim. I usually use 1/2 cup in a protein shake, and maybe 1/4 cup in my coffee, but that's it. I do eat a fair amount of cheese though, but I keep it low fat like provolone, or reduced fat cheeses. Studies have shown cheese to improve weight loss, and the modification of the lactose during fermentation seems to make it more tolerable to the stomach.

I've found creatine loading to be a myth. I think the supplement companies created it to sell more product. I just take 5-7mg/day after my workout (cardio or lifting) along with 5-7mg of glutamine. I just use straight monohydrate (no flavor, etc.) and mix it into my recovery drink.

I personally prefer flax seed oil too. With no guidelines on supplement production the source of the fish oil always makes me nervous. The Omegas are needed, but I worry about possible mercury, PCB, or other contaminants being in the fish oil. I'm sure you can get it mail order or via the internet if need be. I like Vitamin Shoppe products. They are good quality and reasonably priced.

It is very true that the longer you eat well the more you want to. I am in the same boat. Eating fatty or highly processed foods make me feel a bit sick now. Truthfully I think they always make you feel sick, but when you eat them all the time you don't realize it.

It's entirely possible that Kane is natural at 40. He may just have freak genetics too. I know a family of guys who are all in their 40s and 50s and all are ripped like that. They do not take care of themselves (drink, smoke, eat like crap, etc.) and they don't really work out either. They just have freaky genetics. Some people just don't put on BF. They're like my greyhounds. Those dogs sleep probably 14 hours a day, they lounge around for the rest, and walk for maybe 20-30 minutes twice a day. They eat twice what a labrador would eat not to get fat. Yet they don't gain weight. They are ripped and muscular with tiny waists, but they don't really do a lot of exercise. Man I wish I had their metabolism.

[e.nergie]

ps threadstarter there's always waxing and taking the trimmer excessive hair is easy to deal with bitch tits and limp dick are not