Advice: Test Cyp cycle length

[ajb1986ajb]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and have done some searches but am looking for your advice on cycle length based on my stats:

Age: 24
Training duration: been training very intensely accompanied by a clean diet for over 6 years
Bodyfat: after recently training for a fitness competition I'm currently at 6.2% (calipers)
Height: 5"7 (170cm)
Weight: 75kg
Nutrition: I eat very clean and closely monitor cals, meal timings etc. Typical day might include oats and protein (AM), green beens/broccoli, tuna/turkey/eggs, whey/casein protein shake blend, sweet potatoes, casein shake (eating 8 meals or so daily)

Weeks 1 - 10: Testosterone Cypionate (400mg/week) (Nolva on hand in case of signs of Gyno)
Weeks 11 - 12: Nolvadex (20 mg/day)
Weeks 13 - 15: Nolvadex (20 mg/day) & Clomid (day 1 300mg, then 10 x days at 100mg, 10 x days at 50mg)/day

(I will also be using Tyler's Liver Detox, vitamin B-6 @ 200mg/day & nizoral shampoo)

Please could you comment on the cycle length. I did run a short oral cycle a couple of years ago (D-bol & Winny) and this is my only other cycle. I had been considering limiting the use of Test to the first 8 weeks.

Thanks for your help guys!!

[Bossman]

Your bf% is low, but still not a lot of size for 6 years of intense training. Was that 6 years of weight training?

You cycle length is ok, I would rather see it at 12 weeks to help you solidify your gains, I wouldn't shorten it. I wouldn't run clomid over 100, it can cause vision issues (might even make you cry).

What are you goals with this cycle? If it's to gain mass, you should look very closely at your diet. You need to be in a calorie surplus to gain weight on/off cycle. You mention how clean you eat. I believe the #1 factor most don't achieve their expectations on cycle is because they don't eat enough food.

[ajb1986ajb]

Hi cgb6810, thanks for your reply. Fair comments, yes 6 years of weight training - I would say I've only really had a solid understanding of nutrition for the last 2 years or so (although have always eaten for training purposes).

Thanks for your advice, I had originally considered 12 weeks using test so this is interesting and I take your point.

Yes, my goals are to gain lean mass. In terms of calories, I am considering consuming maintenance level cals for the first 3 weeks, +500 cals for week 4 then +500 cals every 2 weeks depending on gains and whether I was gaining too much bodyfat - would you recommend this?

[Bossman]

The first cycle is often the most productive. I believe because you watch your diet so closely and have such low BF, you are in a deficit most of the time. When I was younger I hit a plateau at 185 lbs. I though that was my natural limit. I learned more about nutrition years later and reached 225 naturally. I would double your calorie surplus. That would be giving you a theoretical 2lb gain per week which is attainable your first cycle. It may taper off towards the last few weeks of the cycle and that is where you would want to monitor your intake. You will hold a bit of water on cycle, don't mistake that for fat gain. You will lose that in the weeks following your cycle. Continue to consume more calories to hold your new found muscle post cycle or you will lose it.

Waiting to increase your calories for the first 3 weeks is fine. My first cycle I was advised to eat big from the get go and gained 10 lbs of fat before my test kicked in. I wasn't happy about that.

[ajb1986ajb]

I haven't always been so lean, 3-4 years ago I was 18% bodyfat but have done several cutting cycles (natural) to get my bodyfat down. Wow, that's impressive - I'm sure I have much more to lean about nutrition but believe I have a good knowledge foundation.

Thanks for the recommendation regarding doubling the calorie surplus - I guess the number one priority is to maximise gains (without gaining excessive fat by the end of the cycle) by consuming enough cals.

Ok great - thanks for all the advice there!

[marcus300]

Good advice within this thread, but without doubt you need to increase your calories. 6% bf is very good any pics?

[ajb1986ajb]

great, thanks for your input marcus. sure - i'll try to put some up

[ajb1986ajb]

[pics removed]

[ajb1986ajb]

regarding quantities I would actually be able to run the test c at 500mg/wk instead of 400mg. Does anyone has an opinion on this based on my body composition?

I've frequently read on forums that is quite common for people run test at 400 - 500mg per week so guess it would make a huge difference?

However, I wouldn't want to increase the risk of side effects too greatly.

[Matt]

You should see great gains at 400mgs ew..

Your pct would start 18 days after your last test c shot and would look like this:

Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20....

If you can get hcg, even better but not essential...

[ajb1986ajb]

great - thanks for the advice 007!! another option could be front loading the test for the first few weeks or so but at the moment I'm more inclined to stay at 400mg e/w

[ajb1986ajb]

Hi Guys,

I've now finished my cycle and have made some good gains. Im currently 82kg, 9% BF. My calories ramped up to 6000 and I was eating clean throughout. I didn't take anything to combat the bloat and suffered very badly from this appearance-wise! At my peak I went up to 93kg but 6kg of that was water retention!
I was thinking on running another cycle in March / April next year with the main aim of cutting up and possibly gain some muscle. For my next cycle I plan to run Armidex to combat the bloat.

Please could you let me know what you think of the following:

Test Prop - 100mg every other day, weeks 1 - 8
Tren Ace - 75mgs/EOD, weeks 1 - 6
Winstrol (Injectable) - 100mg EOD, weeks 5 - 8
Proviron - 50mg ED, weeks 5 - 8
Arimidex/Anastrozole - 0.5mg ED, weeks 1-8

PCT
Clomid - weeks 9 - 11 days @ 100mg, 10days @ 50mg
Nolvadex - 20mg ED, weeks 9-11

After this I plan to take 6 months to 1 year off absolute minimum! Until I start my next cycle I will be cutting naturally.

[ajb1986ajb]

Apologies if I should be starting a new thread but thought I would post on here to continue!

[hankdiesel]

Hi Guys,

I've now finished my cycle and have made some good gains. Im currently 82kg, 9% BF. My calories ramped up to 6000 and I was eating clean throughout. I didn't take anything to combat the bloat and suffered very badly from this appearance-wise! At my peak I went up to 93kg but 6kg of that was water retention!
I was thinking on running another cycle in March / April next year with the main aim of cutting up and possibly gain some muscle. For my next cycle I plan to run Armidex to combat the bloat.

Please could you let me know what you think of the following:

Test Prop - 100mg every other day, weeks 1 - 8
Tren Ace - 75mgs/EOD, weeks 1 - 6
Winstrol (Injectable) - 100mg EOD, weeks 5 - 8
Proviron - 50mg ED, weeks 5 - 8
Arimidex/Anastrozole - 0.5mg ED, weeks 1-8

PCT
Clomid - weeks 9 - 11 days @ 100mg, 10days @ 50mg
Nolvadex - 20mg ED, weeks 9-11

After this I plan to take 6 months to 1 year off absolute minimum! Until I start my next cycle I will be cutting naturally.

You won't need the winny. 100mg eod is not the way to run it anyways. You'll see great gains with the test/tren combo. Winny will wreck your lipid panel and I would only use it precontest.....but I don't think you're competing. The average gym goer doesn't need winny. You have so long before this cycle. Work on keeping those nice gains you made from cycle one.

[ajb1986ajb]

Thanks Hankdiesel. The reason I had winny in there was to 'solidify' my gains at the end of the cycle (as with proviron). I actually haven't mentioned that I ran oral winny for 3 weeks at the end of my last cycle before PCT, wks 10-12 and dropped the test cyp. One of my buddies recommended I did that to drop off the excessive water weight I had accumulated and also to help keep my gains. Ok, no just to clarify I'm not competing.

Does anyone else have any similar views with regard to the winny?

[ajb1986ajb]

**Bump** ....does anyone else have any views on whether I should include the winstrol in my next cycle plz? I would be running it at 50mg/day (injectable) for the purpose of solidifying my gains and getting that 'hard' look. Thanks!!

[Bonaparte]

You won't need the winny. 100mg eod is not the way to run it anyways. You'll see great gains with the test/tren combo. Winny will wreck your lipid panel and I would only use it precontest.....but I don't think you're competing. The average gym goer doesn't need winny. You have so long before this cycle. Work on keeping those nice gains you made from cycle one.

Really, cause I think the same about Tren, but not Winstrol. Sure, Winstrol is harsh on your lipids, but so is Anavar (probably more so).
I'd take a poor lipid profile and dry joints for a month anytime over insomnia and potential psychological sides from Tren (along with all of the more cosmetic androgenic side effects). Oh, and lets not forget about a high incidence of sexual dysfunction, gyno, and near-instant HPTA shutdown.