My First Cycle - Simple Test Cyp - Please Critique

[smashingbox]

Hi guys,

In the process of planning my first cycle, not planning to pin for a few months and I always tend to lean on the side of caution so not going to pin until I am sure I have a solid game plan.

I have put this together from my readings here on the forum, but I am sure there are things which could be improved so comments please:

[eGGz]

I'd run it for 10 - 12 weeks

[cro]

2nd that

[lil_herc81]

You need to post your stats on anything like this where you are looking for advice. I found them in your previous posts. I also see that you were given advise. Looking over your spreadsheet you didnt listen. Test E or Test C needs to be take for a solid 10-12 weeks.

Why are you planning to take HCG and arimidex during your cycle?

[brolic272]

You need to post your stats on anything like this where you are looking for advice. I found them in your previous posts. I also see that you were given advise. Looking over your spreadsheet you didnt listen. Test E or Test C needs to be take for a solid 10-12 weeks.

Why are you planning to take HCG and arimidex during your cycle?

Isn't he supposed to? Not sure what the problem is with that

[Flier]

From what I have gathered from threads:
HCG 250x2/week, may be high...125-250 recommended.
12 Weeks Cyp recommended.
Aromasin is recommended over A-dex....but only "On hand if needed"
I´ve seen Clomid/Torm combo, but Clomid/Nolva combo seems to be more common for PCT.
If you choose to use an AI during cycle, combo with 10 mg Nolva for cholesterol control.

[lil_herc81]

I have never used anything other than PCT myself as well as many others. The cycle that you are considering is pretty mild. IMO- I would have something on hand for gyno and forget the rest. 500mg/week of test C/E for 12 weeks will be great. Follow up with PCT clomid/nolvadex save yourself some cash too.

[lil_herc81]

Isn't he supposed to? Not sure what the problem is with that

Of you are informed on these products...NO! sure he can to be safe but totally unnecessary for a first cycle and a mild one at that. Thats why.

[smashingbox]

Stats are: 26, 5'10", 175lbs, bodyfat is a little lower now but do not have a precise measure.

As for having been given advice and not followed previously, would love to hear lil_herc81 which advice specifically you are referring to? At any rate, I am simulataneously working on improving naturally and getting other areas of my training and diet up to scratch before I pin, but I am also working on nutting out the cycle and making sure I have that sorted out well ahead of time also.

HCG is to stimulate my testes directly while on cycle to maintain natural test production and keep my balls functional, this is a preventative measure to help avoid dysfunction. The arimidex is to hold of gyno, although I need confirmation if I am running it and stopping it at the correct times and if the dose is sufficient, according to my plan above. Aromasin would be more ideal, but Adex is what I will have.

"Test E or Test C needs to be take for a solid 10-12 weeks." - wrong, depends on your goals, true best results will be seen with a longer cycle, but it doesnt "need" to be run at all. I will however be looking at extending the cycle for another 2 weeks, just going to be a pain buying another bottle to run 2 more weeks, and only use half of it.

Clomid/Torm over Clomid/Nolva as per Swifto's page on HCG and PCT.

[BGJ]

....

[BGJ]

....

[lil_herc81]

So this is what im thinking:
1-Disregard all of what u were told.
2-Cut or do a prime pre cycle - you wont be sorry you did.
3- Do a 10 week test e or c cycle (bloat etc will depend more on diet - the test p bloat info he told you is bs) You will like the 2x/week injection alot more
4-do 500mgs/week all cycle - dont taper dosages.
5- have an ai like armidex on hand - aslo have all pct items before u start cycle.
6- do a standard clomid/nolva pct staring 2 weeks post last injection.
7- HCG read up on it...your call...low dose 2x/week injection on cycle - run it up to pct IMO but not throughout pct
8- Read some first cycle threads
Best of luck to you....

This is from the last thread you started.

[lil_herc81]

Im not going to argue with you on the cycle times. Dont forget you are the one looking for help.

[Flier]

I agree, I wouldn't be to concerned with taking PCT during a mild cycle like that, just have it on hand. Please post your stats as well, makes it a lot easier for others to give out the proper advice accordingly.

Dude....that´s not a "mild" cycle.

He will be shut down!

PCT is a must!

[Flier]

I can´t find where Swifto recommends Clomid/Torm over Clomid/Nolv....actually he says Tamox is better than Tore....but that might just be a minor detail anyway.
Main thing is that u do PCT.
I´m doing the same as you, gathering as much info as I can before my first cycle with start date March 6 :-)
From the replies I´ve gotten, you will be much better off stretching your C to 10 weeks...ie 400mgs/week for 10 weeks.
No need to buy another vial.

[lil_herc81]

Dude....that´s not a "mild" cycle.

He will be shut down!

PCT is a must!

You misunderstood his statement bro. He is saying not to use DURING his cycle. Use standard PCT post cycle. I will agree with 10 weeks but as an absolute minimum. The goal is to get the maximum from your cycle or why else run it right? 400/10 weeks with give good results 500/12 weeks may and probably will yield much better results. You diet is the most important factor tho, if it is not in check you may be disappointed.

[Flier]

Ah...he means no AI´s during a "mild" cycle like that...I agree.....from what I´ve heard.
PCT stands for Post Cycle Therapy. So it would be impossible to do any kind of PCT during a cycle :-)

[Far from massive]

I would also run a cyp cycle for a minimum of 10 wks. If you wanna run a shorter cycle, no problems run a prop cycle for 6-7 wks and you will see gains roughly equivelant to a 10wk cyp cycle.

As far as running your cycle above, I like it mostly, all I would change is to,

Run the cyp for 10 wks.
Run the armidex wks 2-10 (run for 4 days after last shot. For dosage .25 ed will prob be adequate.
Start PCT about 11 days after your last shot your will have cleared enough test on this small dosage to achieve results.
PCT with Nolva and Torem instead of Clomi and Torem. Torem is very effective and very low on sides,and works well with Nolva.
Since you have run HCG through the cycle you will not need the clomi for your PCT.

Good luck whichever path you choose.

FFm

[Dkny]

I would through in some D-bol for the first 4 weeks

[lil_herc81]

I would also run a cyp cycle for a minimum of 10 wks. If you wanna run a shorter cycle, no problems run a prop cycle for 6-7 wks and you will see gains roughly equivelant to a 10wk cyp cycle. (As I always say you want to stay away from test P on a first run, unless you dont take our advice, then at least you have something to work with)

As far as running your cycle above, I like it mostly, all I would change is to,

Run the cyp for 10 wks.- Agree, at a minimum (gritting teeth for 12 weeks lol)
Run the armidex wks 2-10 (run for 4 days after last shot. For dosage .25 ed will prob be adequate. I wouldnt take this unless you have problems, but if you feel safer then by all means be comfortable its not gonna hurt you
Start PCT about 11 days after your last shot your will have cleared enough test on this small dosage to achieve results.
PCT with Nolva and Torem instead of Clomi and Torem. Torem is very effective and very low on sides,and works well with Nolva.
Since you have run HCG through the cycle you will not need the clomi for your PCT.

Good luck whichever path you choose.

FFm

I DO NOT RECOMMEND DBOL! - just so there is no confusion

[RANE2001]

My cycles have all been Test Cyp for 12 weeks and had great results every time. I would run 600mg a week though.

[BGJ]

For a first cycle 500mg will definitely yeild results, what's paramount is the nutrition at play when you're on. I'd be curious to see what type of diet smashingbox is aiming for and going to pursue.

[smashingbox]

This is from the last thread you started.

Mate if you look through that list I have headed much of the advice given:

I disregarded what I was told, planned PCT and planned to use HCG throughout my cycle. Doing test C instead of test P, did have a 8 week cycle planned but will change to 10 week as suggested. Doing 500mg per week, no tapering.

Planning to use AI throughout cycle - two reasons, additional endogenous test from hcg making me produce naturally, adding to the 500mg I am injecting - therefore increasing chances of sides, AND one of the main things I am concerned with is bloat, puffiness, water retention (hence initial preference for short ester test prop)... all estrogen sides... ai = lower estrogen = less of these.

Read up on hcg, incorporated throughout cycle so no shut down of testes.

Read some first cycle threads and made notes on what to avoid...

So unless there is something I have missed I am pretty sure I am doing a decent job so far of accepting advice.

Here is where swifto suggests that Torem is superior to Clomid/Nolva:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ed-08-12-09%29

"Use proven SERMs (Clomid, Nolva).

Use Tormifene, which is one of the best available SERMs for restarting a shutdown HPTA. Its also a 2nd GEN SERM and has less occular toxicity and geno-toxicity than both Tamox/Clomid and is VERY effective at raising endogenous T in studies as recent at Apr/2009."

"Example of PCT:

wk 1-5 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 120/60mg/ED
wk 1-5 Nolva 20mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED"

Which is literally exactly what I had, Torm 60mg/day and Clomid 50mg/day... but I have changed to Torm/Nolva as per FFM's advice (thank you FFM)

FFM - Personally I like your suggestion of 8 weeks of test prop, but got advised against it for first cycle, also concerned about daily injections, and also much more expensive... other than that I would much prefer that option.

I will change to 500mg/week test cyp for 10 weeks, Torem/Nolva PCT - starting 11 days from last test shot.

BGJ - my diet is a work in progress, definietly to be sorted before pinning, I am currently in the remote trainer challenge thing in the diet section so my trainer is meant to have assigned me a diet (though he hasn't as yet) - I would be very interested to hear any and all suggestions as my diet is one area I REALLY need help with and is probably the part of my training that is letting me down a little. Anything advice you have on diet and I am all ears!

I am going to ask Swifto about hcg and if I am running it correctly in my cycle.

Thanks guys!

[smashingbox]

New Cycle:

[Flier]

Nice job on your recherch (spellcheck)
I just spoke with my Andrologist today, and he is going to look into Torem for me.
I might do as you and switch to Torem
I see what u cut out from Swifto´s PCT advise, however if you scrolldown further to "Update", u will see some conflicting info where Clomid raises serum T by 146% versus Tamox 70% and Tore 25%.
Would be nice to get clarification.
In the same article "Update, Naltrexone", he talks about Triptorelin Acatate. Just fyi....my Andro referred to a study where subjects had shut down pituary for years, and nothing worked, just one shot of this stuff jumpstarted the pituary, and they recovered!! Amazing. Just tells us to try every avenue before TRT for those that are considering that.
I´m doing same cycle as you, however 420/week C for 11 weeks and no AI, starting March 6....can´t wait :-)
When are you starting?

[smashingbox]

I do see what you are saying, I did a little bit of research as well (just on wikipedia - not the best source) and torem looked to have the fewest sides/possible negs, followed by clomid then nolva, so I chose clomid/torem, until FFM advised otherwise.

I dont have a start date, but I have patience and won't start until I am 100% and have everything I need, including diet and motivation... when I have all my ducks in a row, let the good times roll.

[smashingbox]

Bump for more comments on updated cycle.

[bigbossofdariver]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this but in your first spread sheet it says your taking pct 7 weeks after your last test c shot. i would recomend 10 to 14 days after last shot start pct

[flexandex]

you've had some horrid advice so far in this thread..

Cycle looks good, if you have 25ml on hand, you'd be better off going 1ml x2 for a total of 12weeks with test cyp.
That dose of arimidex is far too high for a preventative measure.
i would look at 0.25 EOD as a preventative measure, if you still get sides then feel free to up the dose from there.
Hcg is a good idea also, although its a mild cycle, i'd like to think you're better of taking every precaution you can.

Other than that you're looking pretty good.
Week
1-12 - Test cyp 400-500mg
1-12 - Arimidex 0.25 EOD
2-12 - HCG 500IU

14-18 - Nolva 20mg ED
14-18 - Torem 20mg ED

nice work on the research though man, looks like you've got it sorted.
I'd wait for a vet who knows what they'r doing to weigh in before you pull the trigger

[smashingbox]

bigbossofdariver - even in the first spread sheet it says 18 days after last test shot, ammended to 11 days in second.

flexandex - yes, yes!!! I was hoping to receive advice from this forums resident 19 year old expert on everything!! And you made it, congrats. You are an arrogant 19 year old kid, I will kindly ask you to save your advice for the 5th graders and allow some vets to answer please. P.S. your advice on hcg for the last 2 weeks is "horrid" the entire point of running it throughout is to prevent testes from shutting down at all.

If any of the vets on this forum can wade in some advice and any changes I should make to my second spreadsheet/cycle please let me know.

[flexandex]

bigbossofdariver - even in the first spread sheet it says 18 days after last test shot, ammended to 11 days in second.

flexandex - yes, yes!!! I was hoping to receive advice from this forums resident 19 year old expert on everything!! And you made it, congrats. You are an arrogant 19 year old kid, I will kindly ask you to save your advice for the 5th graders and allow some vets to answer please. P.S. your advice on hcg for the last 2 weeks is "horrid" the entire point of running it throughout is to prevent testes from shutting down at all.

If any of the vets on this forum can wade in some advice and any changes I should make to my second spreadsheet/cycle please let me know.

I'd wait for a vet who knows what they'r doing to weigh in before you pull the trigger ...haha

Ah so you've seen my posts, no need to thank me for the spreadsheet idea . even used the same format.
yeah sorry about that, was a typo :Z you're dead right, keeps your testes alive throughout. what you've got there is the same protocol i've followed on my cycle.

[smashingbox]

Oh right... so you are 19, know everything, and now claim to have invented the concept of putting data into a spreadsheet? I suppose I ought to thank you then for my past university timetables, workout routine, diet, and the host of other information that I have conveniently stored in spreadsheet format...? In fact I use them a lot at work too, and so do the other guys, would you like me to ask them to join the forum and thank you for the idea too?

Can a vet please weigh in on this and give me a green light? Or better still tell me how to change it?

I would also like to know where I could add some winstrol at the end maybe to help me keep gains and harden the muscle?