What was suggested to me for HRT.... thoughts enyone?

[groundfighter1]

Here is my basic history and BW:
36 Y.O.M. / Good general health / Very fit, with frequent exercise and weight training / 5'9" 150 lbs approx: 10 to 12 % body fat / Symptoms of:
Lots of trouble sleeping, especially through the night / decreased energy to name a few.
Blood Work was "normal" for the most part with the following on test:
Ref Rng / actual
Test. total male: 300-1080 / 529
Sex Hormone Binding: 11-80 / 45
Test. Free male: 47-244 / 84
Test. Free PCT: 1.6-2.9 / 1.6
ALT: 10-40 / 32
TSH Ultrasensitive: 0.35-5.5 / 1.07

Here is what was suggested to me for HRT:
200-250MG/WK OF TEST per wk.
500IU OF HCG per wk.
2MG OF ANASTROZOLE per wk.

any thoughts on this? is it legit?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[funkymonk]

That's a shitton of test, especially to start.

[JohnnyVegas]

Sounds pretty standard, but Test seems a bit high. I am on 200mg/wk and HCG. No Anastrozol yet as my Est has been fine.

Good luck, let us know how you feel in a few weeks.

[zaggahamma]

Sounds pretty standard, but Test seems a bit high. I am on 200mg/wk and HCG. No Anastrozol yet as my Est has been fine.

Good luck, let us know how you feel in a few weeks.

i dont think he started on that protocol yet

[zaggahamma]

so i guess you did contact a clinic? guess u didnt want to update your other post...ok...

when u say legit, do u mean is it a common hrt dose/protocol? ...yes and no...

hrt clinics are usually more liberal thats prolly why funkymonk made his statement....as advised in your other post your test level is not going to get you diagnosed with hypogonadism/low T by a traditional doctor. I dont know how the clinics are bypassing these standards and I'm sure most dont care as long as they can keep operating.

something else i didnt notice in your bloodwork, they didnt test for igf....and your complaining of poor sleep...i heard growth hormone makes u sleep like a baby...like JV stated keep one of these posts updated and good luck

[groundfighter1]

yeah, sorry, I didn't update the other post cause I didn't want to appear as tho i was just keeping the thread alive...lol
and no, I didn't by any means start on this suggested protocol.
I did in fact send via e-mail my info to an HRT clinic and they sent a list of somewhat "generic" protocols back to me, which i'm not sure I'm ok with?
The test seemed a little high to me too but I suppose one could decrease the dose on their own I guess, but that kinda defeats the purpose?
I guess the protocol they sent me was a generic one size fits all type thing?

[groundfighter1]

I guess I'm also worried about how legit the clinic is? Like is my money going to disappear if I decide to send it to them? Is there a real Dr. involved and is the stuff they perscribe and send back quality product or mystery juice?
I think that's what scares me the most in this process?

[groundfighter1]

oh crap, forgot one more thing...
I didn't get igf tested... suggested it to my Dr but he said it was really expensive and most insurances wouldn't pay for that test unless the symptoms were very severe.

[BrysZ]

LOL...I am getting a low opinion of HRT clinics the two I worked with wanted to give me a bucket load of test and other steriods. Never got the feeling they were interested in my health just kept pressuring me to buy their stuff. One clinic almost chewed my head off when I told them I was backing out...they wanted me to take 300mg of test per week at $200 per vial and also add anavar. The second clinic I just stopped talking with for fear of getting my head chomped off again and he calls me twice a week for the last 3 weeks! I feel like I am in one of those high pressure timeshare meetings.

[BrysZ]

Here is my basic history and BW:
36 Y.O.M. / Good general health / Very fit, with frequent exercise and weight training / 5'9" 150 lbs approx: 10 to 12 % body fat / Symptoms of:
Lots of trouble sleeping, especially through the night / decreased energy to name a few.
Blood Work was "normal" for the most part with the following on test:
Ref Rng / actual
Test. total male: 300-1080 / 529
Sex Hormone Binding: 11-80 / 45
Test. Free male: 47-244 / 84
Test. Free PCT: 1.6-2.9 / 1.6
ALT: 10-40 / 32
TSH Ultrasensitive: 0.35-5.5 / 1.07

Here is what was suggested to me for HRT:
200-250MG/WK OF TEST per wk.
500IU OF HCG per wk.
2MG OF ANASTROZOLE per wk.

any thoughts on this? is it legit?

Thanks in advance for your input!

529 Total Test and 84 Free...are you sure you are even low-t???

I started at 316 and 37 and my low-t was questioned...but then I am 44.

[groundfighter1]

actually, no...I'm not sure if I'm low T... i have alot of the symptoms but I thought my bw looked ok, maybe not on the top 1/3 of range but maybe average or slightly below?
and yeah, i'm not real sure about these HRT clinics either? I'm not sure if what they think I want and what I actually want are the same thing...if you get my drift.

[BrysZ]

actually, no...I'm not sure if I'm low T... i have alot of the symptoms but I thought my bw looked ok, maybe not on the top 1/3 of range but maybe average or slightly below?
and yeah, i'm not real sure about these HRT clinics either? I'm not sure if what they think I want and what I actually want are the same thing...if you get my drift.

They want money....thats how they pay their bills. A doctor gets paid no matter what he prescribes. Find an Endo and good luck.

Also its best to start small and do frequent checks of your test level. However your test level is better than my test at my current dosage...so I think you are barking up the wrong tree. The symptoms like those from low-t can be caused from other things.

[steroid.com 1]

actually, no...I'm not sure if I'm low T... i have alot of the symptoms but I thought my bw looked ok, maybe not on the top 1/3 of range but maybe average or slightly below?
and yeah, i'm not real sure about these HRT clinics either? I'm not sure if what they think I want and what I actually want are the same thing...if you get my drift.

I got to tell you how much this whole thing worries me. This man's BW reflects NO hypogonadism BUT he has similar symptoms. I would NOT start on any type of TRT till you find out what is medically wrong with you...if anything. You could have hypothyroidism for all you know...or you could just be stressed out.

These clinics and this type of scenario is what can shut down the legit purpose for TRT in men who have a clinical need for it.

Just my $0.02

[JohnnyVegas]

I forget what my free was, but my total was 210.

I realize now that I cannot help in this thread as I don't go to a clinic really. I go to a doctor that sees me in person, and sits down with me and discusses test results and symptoms. I wouldn't want to deal with a clinic unless I had the experience to know exactly what I needed, and even then I would want to sit down with a doctor every once in a while to go over blood work and such.

[Far from massive]

I forget what my free was, but my total was 210.

I realize now that I cannot help in this thread as I don't go to a clinic really. I go to a doctor that sees me in person, and sits down with me and discusses test results and symptoms. I wouldn't want to deal with a clinic unless I had the experience to know exactly what I needed, and even then I would want to sit down with a doctor every once in a while to go over blood work and such.

I agree with this. I am in a slightly different position, I am 54 and had low test scores. However I do not have health insurance or a lot of money, so I weighed the options available and decided to simply get blood work done on my own and use my own Test rather than use a fly by night clinic or pay a ton of money to a physician. I feel that the best approach by far is to use a physician or legit clinic since they will not give you more test than you need, however since I could not afford this approach and knew that the fly by night clinics would give me all the juice I want and actually steer me in that direction, I decided to just do it on my own. The other thing is that a lot of the "compounding pharmacies" that supply the fly by night clinics are as shady as the clinics themselves. Myself I use sterile lab equipment and all USP grade chemicals for all my manufacture so in addition to paying about 10% of what I would pay at a clinic, I can be sure that I will not suffer from an infection as some have who have when dealing with some of these "compounding pharmacies"

[Far from massive]

I gotta say these "clinics" kill me. One of the major ones is a board sponsor on another steroid website and in their advertisement they say they can give you "Cock around the Clock" that is, that you will be able to have sex day or night on demand...I just can't imagine if any question whether I should have known this was not a legit HRT clinic sitting in a courtroom trying to defend my position while the prosecution displayed slogans like "Cock around the Clock" in their advertisement....

I have a close freind who works with two guys who are on this clinic. Their business model is simple enough they do not charge you a bunch of money coming through the door rather they make their profit through the sale of AAS, HCG and AI's and Syringes. This would not be that bad except they seem more than happy to sell you all the AAS you will buy. One of the guys in his first consult was placing his order for Test and they asked if he had heard of Deca and when he sheepishly said "I am not sure" thinking it was a trap to see if he was a gear head they explained that it was another helpful HRT drugs and that it would be a good idea to try it to help protect his joints..by the time he got off the phone he was overjoyed that he had found just what he was looking for a legal place to buy steroids.

For these two guys its a fine solution since they are both gearheads looking for a supply of gear that is legal and that they feel they do not have to worry about. The sad thing is to think of all the people going in to these places who really have no idea what they are going to do to there endocrine system as this is a life long commitment and not to be taken lightly. The other side of that coin is whenever the FDA/DEA/ETC. come down on these AAS distrubuters just like they did on the oxycontin sellers its going to leave all these guys up the creek without a paddle. Just think of how many are getting on these clinics because they do not have health insurance or are not covered and can not afford to pay the fees for a legit TRT clinic, when these places get busted not only are they going to have to find TRT clinics fast but they are going to be going through some unpleasent times till there bodies become accustomed to a normal TRT dosage.

[groundfighter1]

very well put... and that is actually my concern... I don't in any way want huge dose gear that will shut down my own production. All I was interested in was trying to "supplement" mine to get it to the higher range of normal?
I for sure could go out on my own and obtain the supplies with maybe only slighlty higer legal risk... from everything i've been hearing about some of these clinics?
My personal Dr. wouldn't have a problem ordering annual or bi-annual tests for me and would prolly advise me on my levels.... but he for sure would not perscribe me anything if he didn't feel i didn't need it... which he doesn't.
Now I'm even concerned that an HRT clinic might be perscribing lower quality product than other routes might provide?
...oh and "FarFromMassive" thanks for the great input and posts... really does help alot... not sure where I'm going from there but does help

[zaggahamma]

very well put... and that is actually my concern... I don't in any way want huge dose gear that will shut down my own production. All I was interested in was trying to "supplement" mine to get it to the higher range of normal?
I for sure could go out on my own and obtain the supplies with maybe only slighlty higer legal risk... from everything i've been hearing about some of these clinics?
My personal Dr. wouldn't have a problem ordering annual or bi-annual tests for me and would prolly advise me on my levels.... but he for sure would not perscribe me anything if he didn't feel i didn't need it... which he doesn't.
Now I'm even concerned that an HRT clinic might be perscribing lower quality product than other routes might provide?
...oh and "FarFromMassive" thanks for the great input and posts... really does help alot... not sure where I'm going from there but does help

FYI....u do know that even a low dose of trt is going to shut down your natty production?

[groundfighter1]

well... wasn't really sure on that part... which is why I was on here.. looked around alot on the site first before posting but couldn't really get a for sure answer on that as far as an amount that would have that affect.
not sure I'm ok with that... especially with the natural numbers i have?
Thanks alot tho on the info!

[BrysZ]

Groundfighter...you came to the right place and are already talking to the right people...Johnny, jpkman and Far are the guys who led me down the right path. They gave me WAY more meaniful advice then all the HRT clinics combined...advice to protect me and make my transition into HRT the smoothest and most successful possible. Good Luck Bud...

[The Toad]

If it were me I don't think I would jump on TRT bandwagon just yet with the test numbers you have. It may be a good idea to to wait a bit and do more bloodwork, test levels fluctuate and those numbers could be your high or low. The last thing you want is to start this and shut your own production down when you may have plenty. Maybe some of the more experienced guys could chime in on this.

[BrysZ]

If it were me I don't think I would jump on TRT bandwagon just yet with the test numbers you have. It may be a good idea to to wait a bit and do more bloodwork, test levels fluctuate and those numbers could be your high or low. The last thing you want is to start this and shut your own production down when you may have plenty. Maybe some of the more experienced guys could chime in on this.

^^^^^ once you start you are on it for life....

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^^^ once you start you are on it for life....

...and it is a commitment when you look toward the long term. Even $200 a month is $24,000 over ten years. I am hoping they have some kind of gene treatment around that time. That stuff is going to be great for me...but is going to ruin the olympics.

[Vettester]

A little late to the party on this one, but I have no idea why anyone would prescribe TRT when you're at 529 Total "T". I didn't see where they ran a LH/FSH test, so why the HCG? Your LH may be just fine. Well, I guess it will come in handy when your TRT program suppresses your LH levels, then your doc can sell you his HCG to make up for what your body won't produce. Agree with qdevine about this sort of stuff giving legit TRT practices a bad name.

[groundfighter1]

yeah, thanks alot guys. This is why i got on this site and started posting... I've been a reader for quite a while but this interaction is what I needed to sort this out. I think it may be more of a lifestyle issue. My job keeps me up sometimes for over 24 hours straight therefore ruining my sleep patterns...or lack thereof... Alot of this stuff may be related to that?
I've used over the counter "supplement" pre-hormones before without any real results so hopefully that didn't effect anything also. It's been quite some time since i've used any of those tho. I think it was a waste of money anyway...lol
the last thing I want to do is set myself up to be locked into treatment

[zaggahamma]

yeah, thanks alot guys. This is why i got on this site and started posting... I've been a reader for quite a while but this interaction is what I needed to sort this out. I think it may be more of a lifestyle issue. My job keeps me up sometimes for over 24 hours straight therefore ruining my sleep patterns...or lack thereof... Alot of this stuff may be related to that?
I've used over the counter "supplement" pre-hormones before without any real results so hopefully that didn't effect anything also. It's been quite some time since i've used any of those tho. I think it was a waste of money anyway...lol
the last thing I want to do is set myself up to be locked into treatment

yw bro....keep an open mind and get everything tested and YES sleep is HUGE...YES, try it all b4 committing to trt,
but even though your levels are decent, your body might have been used to running at an even higher level and your 500's could be like someone elses 200's...its symptoms we want treated not numbers...you're approaching 40 which is also a number but i'm just saying...btw, i was 37 when i started and my levels were consistently in the 200's

best of luck

[Jadam]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but you could also try getting tested for sleep apnea. Sounds like it could be causing some of your problems. I just read an article that said a lot of otherwise healthy people have it and never think about it.

[groundfighter1]

thanks again guys, lots of tools for going forward...
sleep apnea isn't an issue... but my job is... several days a week I'm am often up for 24 or more hours straight. At best I may get a few short stretches of sleep, and not good sleep at that. Although, that is pretty much what sleep apnea does to your body.... It also carries into my "off days" and screws up my sleep when I'm not on duty...
Not sure on what my solution will be, but this is a very good start at resolving these issues?
This all could be connected to my struggles at gaining and keeping on weight?

[zaggahamma]

thanks again guys, lots of tools for going forward...
sleep apnea isn't an issue... but my job is... several days a week I'm am often up for 24 or more hours straight. At best I may get a few short stretches of sleep, and not good sleep at that. Although, that is pretty much what sleep apnea does to your body.... It also carries into my "off days" and screws up my sleep when I'm not on duty...
Not sure on what my solution will be, but this is a very good start at resolving these issues?
This all could be connected to my struggles at gaining and keeping on weight?

unfortunately your job is making your health suffer

SLEEP i HUGE

[groundfighter1]

Yeah, after doing some research, i am finding out just how important sleep is... not just sleep.. but good sleep... Can't do much about the sleep issue tho?
I'm very experienced at training, diet, and supplements and have worked out for 15 years. I had the problem with gaining and keeping weight on long before I got into this line of work tho. I'm very active but adjust my caloric intake based on my activity. I'm that guy that can eat anything and still stay lean... great problem to have... unless you want to gain weight... ha ha ha

[zaggahamma]

Yeah, after doing some research, i am finding out just how important sleep is... not just sleep.. but good sleep... Can't do much about the sleep issue tho?
I'm very experienced at training, diet, and supplements and have worked out for 15 years. I had the problem with gaining and keeping weight on long before I got into this line of work tho. I'm very active but adjust my caloric intake based on my activity. I'm that guy that can eat anything and still stay lean... great problem to have... unless you want to gain weight... ha ha ha

yes i hear you bro...well..you're definitely old enough to try a cycle...already fit...have you researched a cycle and pct (since youre natty test level is actually decent enough to save)?

[groundfighter1]

well... I have tried two very small cycles... one two years ago and one last year. Results were ok i guess (it actually took those two to get me to the mean 152 lbs i am now, lol)
They were both short and very very mild. I did my research but not to the level of doing a "real" cycle followed up with pct. I've been doing alot of reading on this site and am considering trying an actual cycle and pct. I'll be posting on other sections of this site to be sure I get it right if i do decide to try it again.
I really don't want to wreck up my natural test levels and get on anything permanent before I have to...

[flatscat]

I think that is the right thing for you at this point. Good luck with it and I am sure a lot of us will follow your journey.

Flats

[groundfighter1]

Thanks guys, I'll be posting a complete history, past cycle attempts, and current stats over on the Q&A board to get input and feedback on what i may try. I'm going to be very detailed and hopefully will get alot of good input.
Also I will keep a log on here of progress and how it goes.... got to get the knee issues resolved before I go into this tho, don't want to get started only to get stopped halfway through for a surgery.
speaking of that .... how would a mild cycle be for after surgery to help rebuild? anyone have any thoughts or experience on that? obviously would have to be after I was recovered enough to work out hard

[zaggahamma]

Thanks guys, I'll be posting a complete history, past cycle attempts, and current stats over on the Q&A board to get input and feedback on what i may try. I'm going to be very detailed and hopefully will get alot of good input.
Also I will keep a log on here of progress and how it goes.... got to get the knee issues resolved before I go into this tho, don't want to get started only to get stopped halfway through for a surgery.
speaking of that .... how would a mild cycle be for after surgery to help rebuild? anyone have any thoughts or experience on that? obviously would have to be after I was recovered enough to work out hard

perfect attitude bro and your last question i believe would also be best answered by some of the bb pros and/or ppl that have actually had knee surgery, etc. I believe there is a rehab/injury forum...best of luck

[BeastintheSheets]

Legit but I'd just drop the HCG and just run test 125mg/5 days with no anti e.