Long time reader. first time poster. Need advice.

[lineback3r]

Hey bros-

First time posting on this forum, been on here reading up for about a year and a half. Lots of great info, has helped me tremendously.

Long story short. I have 3 cycles under my belt. As of cycle #2 I have been experiencing gyno issues and looking for alternative cycles and everyone's input on them. First here are my stats and cycle history:

Age:34
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 231 lbs
BF: 10%
Cycles: 3

1st cycle
Test C, 10 weeks @ 500mg/wk
PCT: Nolva, clomid

Before weight: 182 lbs
Before BF: 6% (171 lean)

After weight: 201 lbs
After BF: 9% (182 lean)

Net gain of +11lbs

Test Level Before: 751
Test Level After: 465

2nd cycle
Test E, 12 weeks @ 500mg/wk
PCT: HCG, Nolva, Clomid (started HCG last day of cycle, ran for 2 weeks and started PCT)

Before weight: 195
After weight: 215

Before BF: 7% (181 lean)
After BF: 10% (193 lean)

net gain: +12 lbs

Test level before: 680
Test level after: 865 (apparently HCG made a huge difference) This was 2 months after PCT

Started experiencing gyno symptoms at week 7. Started popping nolvadex at 20mg ed for 3 weeks. So week 7-9 was on Nolvadex. Symptoms subsided.

3rd cycle
Test E, 12 weeks @ 500 mg/wk
Dbol, 4 weeks @ 40mg/day
PCT: Nolva, Letro, HCG

Before weight: 210 lbs
Before BF: 8% (193 lean)

After weight: 251 lbs (huge increase)
After BF: 16% (unfortunately huge fat increase as well) Needless to say I'll never do dbol again. Lean weight 210

Net gain: 17 lbs, awesome but not awesome enough for the amount of fat I put on.

Test level before: 815
Test level after: 410


That last cycle was a bitch. Gyno scares the shit out of me. I started experiencing puffy nipples at week 6, took 20mg of nolva for two weeks only to feel a lump start developing 1 week after taking nolva. I got scared and ordered some letro. Took about a week to get there. Stopped nolva and started letro week #8. Symptoms and lump subsided by end of week 9. Stayed on tiny dose of letro throughout cycle. Letro gets me super tired. I was having a hard time working out and took 110% to finish my workouts. Nolva also gets me tired for whatever reason but not as bad as letro. Last day of cycle I started my HCG and bumped up letro to same dose I was taking during gyno week. Started PCT 2 weeks later with just nolva this time because I was already feeling so shitty from the letro that nolva and clomid would have killed me at the gym.

I have a feeling my test came back lower this time because of the letro but it did save me from having to start buying bras. I was a little freaked out on cycle #2 when I started getting itchy nipples and tenderness but cycle #3 scared the living shit out me.

I want to do another cycle in a few months but wanted some feedback on lower aromatizing cycles like sustanon or even completely non-aromatizing cycles. Are those a waste (the latter)? I've heard of people doing them but haven't really seen numbers to support any gains. This is where I need your help bros. If you can recommend me a cycle that will give me minimal estrogen effects but yet still effective I would greatly appreciate it.

btw after my crazy fat gain and then trying to lose it all I currently stand at 231 @ 10% bf. Having a hard time getting below that. This last cycle really got me.

[chuckt12345]

well def dont take dbol again cause that was prb the kickstart to the fat/bloat. Maybe go with a test/anavar,, or test/winny

btw great job on the testing before and after

[songdog]

Well you were fine until the Dbol chubby No just bustin on ya.Dbol can and will do that to you.I am sure you will loose it.Probaly water weight.Good luck Bro

[lineback3r]

ChuckT: Have you done any of those two stacks? If so, were you satisfied with the results?

Songdog: Chubby! lol.. .more like fat ass!!! I was so upset at first but found some humor in my mistake.


You think the dbol added to the gyno sides? I was a lot worse than the previous cycle. I was kind of thinking of replacing test with sus to give it a shot. I've heard good reviews about it but they were mainly athletes looking to increase performance and not necessarily looking for size gains. Also their doses were a little lower. Just looking for opinions from people with experience with sus and their overall opinion of it (including sides).

[Lemonada8]

Yea dont use dbol, it aromatizes easily which can give u gyno way faster and easier.

If you dont mind injecting, i would go with test prop. Less water weight

and Use hcg on ur next cycle during your cycle and not during pct.

as for a stacking... you may wanna add in a 19nor, depending onw hat you want. nandrolone is a good one for bulk and i woudl go with NPP so you dont get nearly the bloat. Or even tren, but since you havent stacked much i wouldnt use it.

but go with short esters if u dont mind injecting and you will avoid alot of the water bloat.

[lineback3r]

Yea dont use dbol, it aromatizes easily which can give u gyno way faster and easier.

If you dont mind injecting, i would go with test prop. Less water weight

and Use hcg on ur next cycle during your cycle and not during pct.

as for a stacking... you may wanna add in a 19nor, depending onw hat you want. nandrolone is a good one for bulk and i woudl go with NPP so you dont get nearly the bloat. Or even tren, but since you havent stacked much i wouldnt use it.

but go with short esters if u dont mind injecting and you will avoid alot of the water bloat.

Yeah Dbol is definitely out for good.

No problem injecting, I actually like it. You say test prop but that's kind of why I was asking about Sustanon. It has prop in there along with others.

Honestly bro, the water bloat is not much of a concern to me since it goes away quick after cycle is done. What really concerns me is gyno. I want to keep estrogen as low as I can without having to run an AI throughout the cycle.

[nguadagno]

tests fluctuates that much before and after cycle even with proper pct? wow

[gixxerboy1]

sust is test. its just a blend of 4 different esters.

people always seem to forget sust just a brand name. not some extra special substance

[chuckt12345]

done them both,, prefer var way over win though. You can try deca or npp but if you want to stay away from the bulkier look i wouldnt. Its really up to diet and exercise either way. from my exp i dont see any diff in bloat between prop, e, c or sust.

[lineback3r]

sust is test. its just a blend of 4 different esters.

people always seem to forget sust just a brand name. not some extra special substance

I understand its 4 blends.. prop, phenylprop, decanoate and iso****ate sorry cant remember the exact spelling off the top of my head. I was just looking for people's experiences while on sustanon and what sides they experienced... especially gyno prone people.

[lineback3r]

done them both,, prefer var way over win though. You can try deca or npp but if you want to stay away from the bulkier look i wouldnt. Its really up to diet and exercise either way. from my exp i dont see any diff in bloat between prop, e, c or sust.

Cool... appreciate the feedback.