51 year old vet natty Bodybuilder needs advice on his first cycle

[Veteran]

Hi everyone. I've been bodybuilding for over 20 years and during my times training I've learned how to eat and how to train. I was a singer and so I never needed to get to a size where steroids where mandatory for my growth. However now that I have almost no natural test and after 2 years of natty training and diet and seeing minimal results the truth has hit me hard that I need steroids at my age to keep gaining. I have access to every steroid on the market, pharm grade. I understand only the very basics and am using Sust 300 250 mg evrey 5 days. I also have a vial of Tren. But I do not know if these drugs are synergestic. I have a good amount of muscle but more fat than i would like. Should I stack the Tren and the Sust? If I do stack them I'll up my total dose by 250mg. I plan to use Nolva and Proviron has pct after an 8 week cycle. Some basic dosages of the pct drugs would be appreciated as well as info on wether I should be using Sust 300 and Tren together. I am also curious as to weather or not I should bulk and then cut using sust and then tren. I'm sorry for the long winded post but a little bit of your time and knowledge would help this old timer more than you know. The Tren is Tren Enenthate btw.

[TheClinch]

Hi welcome to the forum

The vets will answer you pretty soon but in the mean time you need to read all the educational threads in this forum. They will answer almost every question you have.

[Veteran]

Thank you, and will do.

[Devils Advocate]

If I were your age I don't think I'd come off. Although I'd definitely see what condition I was in with my doc beforehand. And 250mg every 5 days. Isn't there 300mg/ml? Just find it strange you measure out 250. Forget the Tren, stick to the Sust.

[Veteran]

I got my bw done. They said I was in the shape of a 30 year old. If I decide to not come off...would that lead to very bad sides, reduced gains over time as it wouldnt be as effective and also if I ran out I'd be damn well screwed. I think I'll attempt to cycle normally as best I can. And if I'm kicking the tren what should I use in conjuction with sust? Also to my knowledge 1cc in a syringe = 250mg

[Devils Advocate]

Don't use anything with the sust. And your Sust sounds like it's dosed at 300mg per cc, not 250 (which most are). Just see how you gain on the Sust, no need to add anything else. In the future, you can add another compound if you see fit. I always say, climb the ladder, don't fall off it. You'll be able to see how you respond to each compound and it'll be better long-term for your gains anyway.

[Veteran]

Ok thank you. I have a few more basic questions that I'm gonna go lurk the forums for but if you feel like answering them they are:

Are nolva and Pro enough for PCT how much and when should I take them?

And can I lose fat and gain muscle on a compound like sust?

[Devils Advocate]

Personally I wouldn't uses the Proviron. If you want to gain some real muscle, don't be afraid of a little fat. I can't speak for your results though because I don't know your training or your diet. Also, I never used Sust myself but I'm pretty sure most would recommend shooting it more frequently than every 5 days. I don't normally recommend low doses either but at your age you could probably do 300mg/week, so half a cc a week and get some decent gains. Someone with more experience at your age should be able to chime in here anytime and let you know better than I can.

But yeah, do some reading, there's tons here.

[Honkey_Kong]

So when you say you have almost no natural testosterone, what is your free testosterone levels? If it's low, you should consider TRT. I mean if your natural test is extremely low, and you do a cycle, what are you going to be recovering to in your PCT?

[Veteran]

I dont know my exact levels of natural t but I show symptoms of low T and am 51 and by my age I'm judging that I dont have very much T in me.

[scribbs12]

honestly i would stay away from sust... IMO it has to many different esters and if you think logically it will **** your blood levles up... iv had a friend that took it and it gave him horrible acne.. and he has done test prop/enth/cyp... with no problems.. so im assuming its all the esters... but if you do it.. IMO... i would do it EOD or E3D... half a cc3x a week or a cc2x a week.. tren is great.. i would stack it.. 2ccs a week.. you might want to have caber on hand as well for prolactin sides..
1-16 5mg nolva..(iv read and heard that nolva w/tren isnt good..but it works for me and it keeps my gyno down.)
1-10 half cc 3x a week sust
1-10 cc.x2 a week tren
pct
10-? 250iu a day of hcg...
12-16 nolva 40/30/20/10

hope that helps good luck

[scribbs12]

usually i do 12 weeks min with any test or long ester... because i have seen i dont see any gains etc... until about week 5 or 6... and im not happy with only 4-5 weeks of growth :P... but hey you might notice gains in 3 weeks.

[Honkey_Kong]

I dont know my exact levels of natural t but I show symptoms of low T and am 51 and by my age I'm judging that I dont have very much T in me.

I think you should go check out one of those men's health places and get some blood-work done. You might be a candidate for TRT.

[ata1979]

You should get all your bloodwork done first to see exactly what condition your in. Check your test and thyroid levels.

[songdog]

Yes blood work done 1st would be a good thing.Some people like Sus and have done it like you are.You dont need large amounts of test to grow.You need a good diet.Most people opt for test eth or Cyp and single ester.Keeps blood levels more stable.Your pct is weak you need nova and clomid.Read the stickys on pct and on the profiles of steroids.Learn about AIs to control bloat.And wat to do about gyno.Good luck bro

[AstheticKing]

just get on hrt,script hgh and hcg and u can goto ar-r and supplement ur scripts with a anti/arom,

[MR10X]

I am 65 and have been trainingg and using steroids for 35 years. Here is what i do,i am not on TRTor HRT i am natural except when i do a cycle. I like to cycle my training and steroids so i am doing them together for 8 to 12 weeks.I train hard when i am cycling and have been still making gains.while i am off a cycle i still train but not as hard but hard enough to keep most of what i gained.Its a trial and error thing to see how hard you can train and see how long it takes you to recover,i dont recover as quickly as i did at 30 and 40 so i find hitting everything 3 times every 2 weeks works best for me,even while i am on a cycle and hitting everything once a week works good when im off cycle. I have used tren for 3 cycles, I would not use tren in your first cycle , although having been on test only you could consider that a light cycle you should use test,SUST is fine and thats what i use sometimes. You will need more test since you are already doing 300mg a week,you would need at least 500 or 600mg and you can add something like EQ or decca and it would take much at first .Nolvadex and clomid is good for PCT with some HCG to get you going and the Nolvadex and clomid will help with the other hormones you need to keep producing your own test again. I use 500iu of HCG 2 weeks after my last shot of long acting steroids and start Nolvadex and Clomid 20mg and 50mg daily for each of those for 30 to 60 days. I am going to experiment with some GH releasing petides while i am off cycle to see if they are of any benifit,injury healing,loosing fat,holding on to more muscle after a cycle.

[xero]

Dont do it mate! Wait a few years till you're older else you will stunt your growth plates.

[Hazard]

If bloodwork shows that your test levels are low then insurance should pick up the cost of TRT for you. My father pays a ridiculously small ammount of money for a 10cc bottle and he's prescribed 150mg's every two weeks now. As long as you have health insurance..... you wont run out. You can then run "cycles" and instead of going into pct..... you would fall back to the 150mg's every two weeks protocol. This is how a lot of the older guys are doing it today.....

If you don't want to go that route - then the safest bet would be to just use testosterone and see how your body responds to it. Don't use a 2nd compound right off the bat. The only issue I have with your situation is IF your natty test levels are low..... your recovery is going to be really hard. So you may end up losing a large ammount of the gains you make when you come off.

Either way..... stick to testosterone and get blood work after. Check your cholesterol and rbc count..... etc.....

~Haz~

[JimInAK]

I did my first cycle at 50 years old and it was great. I gained about 22 lbs. and lost some fat doing Test E and Deca. I followed the cycles given on this site from the page: http://www.steroid.com/steroid_cycles.php and did a novice cycle.

I take HGH daily, so I didn't use nolvadex during my cycle, I used arimidex instead and used nolvadex along with clomid for PCT. I don't know if that was optimal, but it worked for me.

I take HCG during cycle too (250iu every 3 days, i think), to help keep the boys operational, which should help make PCT go well (less recovery involved). I do not agree that everyone should go on TRT just because we are older, as I like to maintain my natural production of hormones as much as possible, but that's my opinion and others will disagree. If your natty test production is way too low, then that would not be an issue and TRT would be the way to go, imo....

There's lots of solid information on this site and tons of great advise from people who know more than I will ever know.

[dec11]

I got my bw done. They said I was in the shape of a 30 year old. If I decide to not come off...would that lead to very bad sides, reduced gains over time as it wouldnt be as effective and also if I ran out I'd be damn well screwed. I think I'll attempt to cycle normally as best I can. And if I'm kicking the tren what should I use in conjuction with sust? Also to my knowledge 1cc in a syringe = 250mg

read this ppl, he obviously doesnt need trt

[Veteran]

Thank you guys for all the advice. I am taking alot of it to heart. On the average, how much should my PCT cost if I'm including Nolva, Clomid, and HCG? Not an incredibly harsh cycle just sust at a pretty low dose for 8 weeks so I dont imagine I'll need large amounts of any of the aforementioned substances.

[MR10X]

read this ppl, he obviously doesnt need trt

I think you need to reread his post,he had the blood work done while he was taking 250mg of sust every 5 days...thats TRT