Question regarding BW

[J. Cole]

Hey Everyone,

I was able to swing a free hormone panel with my insurance, but will not be able to have it done until the end of the month. My last shot of the cycle will be this saturday the 13th. So my question is, if the gear was real (which I do not think it is) would my total test levels should still be sky high 18 days after my last test cyp injection?

I am basically just trying to find out if there was any real testosterone in my gear so I know whether to run PCT or not

thanks
-J

[gixxerboy1]

yes it will still be high in 18 days. Maybe not sky high but elevated enough to tell

[Bonaparte]

yes it will still be high in 18 days. Maybe not sky high but elevated enough to tell

I respectfully disagree. With Cyp's active life, there is no telling where his levels will be after 18 days (plus, some metabolize hormones faster than others).
They might still be a bit high, or he could be below baseline (which I would lean towards, since he would have normally begun PCT by this point).
OP, where do you live? If you're in the US, you could get a full blood panel done tomorrow for $50 through privatemdlabs without insurance or a doctor.

[gixxerboy1]

I respectfully disagree. With Cyp's active life, there is no telling where his levels will be after 18 days (plus, some metabolize hormones faster than others).
They might still be a bit high, or he could be below baseline (which I would lean towards, since he would have normally begun PCT by this point).
OP, where do you live? If you're in the US, you could get a full blood panel done tomorrow for $50 through privatemdlabs without insurance or a doctor.

Honestly Bonaparte i know you are very education on this subject. I will defer to you.
He would also have to had a baseline before cycle to compare too and you stated.

[gixxerboy1]

Bonaparte
This is what i was basing my post on. It was someone who was supposed to be on trt of 100mg a week and was doing 500mg. And was trying to calculate how long to wait after returing to 100mg a week injections to go for follow up bw. What are your thoughts?


Thats extremely helpful Profbush and pretty much confirms my halflife calculations that I had done which suggested that it would take longer than what people were telling me at other boards. They were saying, all the test is gone by 2 weeks. I know clinically the rule of thumb is that drugs are effectively eliminated after 4-5 half-lives.
So from my readings the enanthate ester has a half life of approximately six days regardless of what is attached to it. I am looking at 24-30 days to eliminate 94-97% from my body.

I am not sure where people were basing that it would be out of my system in two weeks, but I assume b/c people are always told that you should start PCT 2 weeks after last injection (with a test enanthate/cypionate based cycle) and they seem to assume at that point the testosterone is fully cleared, which in reality it would only be 75-80% cleared based on a six day half life meaning in two weeks would be 2 and 1/3 half lives in terms of time.
Half-lives
% of drug eliminated from body

1 half life 50%
2 half life 75 day 12
3 half life 87.5%
4 half life 93.75%
5 half life 96.875%
6 half life 98.474%
7 half life 99.25%

Plus, while my last 500mg injection may be only 25% remaining there is the matter of the previous injections that are also contributing to my test blood levels that are in the 3rd (12.5% remaining uncleared) and 4th half lives (6.25% remaining) themselves. Simplistic as this is, it would mean about 40-45% of [500mg injection(s)] is still uncleared (25% + 12.5% + 6.25%= 43.75%). Point being, a far cry from "fully cleared" after 2 weeks. In fact, that may point to waiting longer to start PCT than just 2 weeks after last injection but thats another issue and since I am TRT I am no expert on other considerations going into that recommendation, but I do think it has mislead the others giving me advice as 45% of 500mg is the equivalent of a 225mg injection.

Which is still more than double my TRT dose of 100mg. BUT if I wait another half life or approximately 3 weeks. I will halve that at 112.mg equivalent. That would approximate me what I should be at had just been taking 100mg/week all along in my calculations hold if I was to not inject for 3 weeks. Of course that would not reflect the half life of a previous week's 100mg shot. If my goal is to obtain an accurate reflection of having followed 100mg/week protocol all along, I would need to have that approximately 50mg remaining (slightly less than 50% remaining after a six day half life clearance subtracted) from the previous week's 100mg injection.

That is my logic in restarting 100mg/week after 2 weeks rather than 3 weeks so that- that is contributed to my blood levels. Then continue that for another 3 weeks before taking my bloodwork.
Fortunately, I can non-chalantly stall the bloodwork as I am awaiting sleep study results which gives me a good reason not to rush back in for my next appointment as I normally would in 1 week.

As for him being a new primary doctor. He's not but I never did my second bloodwork after increasing from 100mg/q 2 weeks to 100mg/q-weekly. I do however, would like to have an accurate test so that I do know what my best TRT dose is which he would like to see it at least over 600ng/dL he stated. And also, I work with him professionally and so it would make me uncomfortable for him to know that I am what could be technically argued "abuse" of this prescription that he is writing (a portion of- at least). He may not give a flying leap as its not like this an opiate or other where there is a huge emphasis in this community to stamp out prescription drug abuse requiring signing contracts and drugtesting. But it may raise an eyebrow with my professionalism as well as the fact that I have a great deal of latitude in terms of managing my medications such as, for example, requesting vicoprofen for a shoulder injury for a PRN basis and to take before my cardio sessions (back and shoulder pain) and easily getting it unlike most patients would get b/c he knows I am not going to sell them or abuse them. And another med that I am familiar and he's not that I take for off-label use. I dont want to lose that latitude with an obviously way too elevated test level!

[Bonaparte]

Honestly Bonaparte i know you are very education on this subject. I will defer to you.
He would also have to had a baseline before cycle to compare too and you stated.

Wow...didn't expect that. Thank you
And besides not knowing his baseline T, if the gear is weak enough that he isn't sure it is real, his levels will drop even lower than normal within those 18 days (since they can't be too high above baseline anyway).

My issue with people using half-lives to calculate blood levels is this: we are not dealing with radioactive isotopes with a predictable surface area and decay rate. The speed at which a hormone's ester is metabolized will vary greatly based on bloodflow to the depot. A large depot will have a longer "half life" than several small ones, due to the amount of enzymes that are able to reach the hormone and metabolize that ester. Then there is the issue of the carrier used, the injection location, and the individual's own metabolic rate. If you look at studies done on depot steroids, there is a wide variance in observed half life (I've seen where it ranged from 6-11 days from one participant to the next in the same study, which is why they usually list an average of around 7-9 days for Cyp's half life). To make matters more confusing, there are 2 different types of half-life: plasma and elimination.
Furthermore, the second half-life will differ from the first, since by this point the depot has mostly dispersed and the drug is now being carried through the bloodstream where the enzymes will make short work of the ester.
But I'm still learning, just like everyone else (the scientific community included), so that may not all be totally accurate.
(Remember when scientists all KNEW that diseases were caused by an imbalance of the 4 humors or whatever, and that surgical tools could be cleaned by spitting on them and wiping off the dirt? lol)
J Cole, just get your labs done now or don't bother and just run PCT to be safe.

[gixxerboy1]

No problem sir. When your right your right.

What do you think about the info i posted that i copied. Do you believe that to be true? Of course if it was real gear.

[Bonaparte]

No problem sir. When your right your right.

What do you think about the info i posted that i copied. Do you believe that to be true? Of course if it was real gear.

Check my updated post.

[munsun86]

would just running pct not just be easier?

[J. Cole]

I did get pre cycle blood work done, so I know my baseline T. I already told you in another post that private md labs does not have any supported labs in my area unfortunately, but I am going to get my total test calculated at the end of the month I just don't know if that will tell me. I feel like it is dangerous to through strong pct chems in my body without even knowing if I'm shutdown or even had aas on my blood.

[Bonaparte]

Then why don't you get that saliva test done?

[J. Cole]

just didnt believe it would give me accurate answers and it would take time to ship to me and then another two weeks to get the results. i can include total test in my blood work and that is all i need I was just hoping by that time that my test would be at a level to indicate yes or no to pct