Tren Ace and Test Prop Cycle

[ThatOneGuy]

Here it is, thoughts?

Tren ace 75mg ed (525mg/wk)
Test prop 50mg ed (350mg/wk)
Test prop^ 100mg ed (700mg/wk)
HCG 250iu ed (1750iu/wk)
Proviron 25mg ed (175g/wk)
Nolvadex 20mg ed (140mg/wk)
Clomid 50mg ed (350mg/wk)

Tren ace wk1-9
Test prop wk1-9
Test prop^ wk10
HCG wk6
HCG wk8-9
Proviron wk6
Proviron wk8-9
Nolvadex wk11-14
Clomid wk11-14

This is completely open to change. Obviously, tren is my main compound and the test is just enough to keep my member happy. I may decide to run Nolvadex instead of Proviron during HCG injections. I also might run Proviron @25mg ed for most of the cycle. I'm unsure about upping the dose of test prop at the end of the cycle, I haven't done that before. The only reason I have for doing that are that by that time I will be out of tren and still have plenty of test left that I'd hate to see go to waste. So, any opinions? Suggestions would be great, previous cycles have gone well but I think this cycle could be the best (first with tren).

[ThatOneGuy]

Good or no?

[Pac Man]

I think it looks good, allot of people say run test at least equal to tren (75/75) but I've also heard allot of people like to run test lower than their tren. I'll be doing a cycle very similar to yours in a week. except I'm adding low doses of dbol and adrol for the first two weeks. After some consideration I'm thinking 50/75 prop/ace and running caber throughout.

[stpete]

Looks good. Might want to throw some vitamin b-6 and b-12 in there too.

[Windex]

This guy is 21 and already running tren. I'm speechless at your comments =/.

[marcus300]

Stats and cycle history pls?

[Pac Man]

This guy is 21 and already running tren. I'm speechless at your comments =/.

Wow didn't even see that. Good spot

[Lemonada8]

your HCG use isnt right. Its not for ED, its for E3d or 2x a week. and use it during your cycle and stop before PCT.

[songdog]

Well all I can say is your flurting with disaster.Your to young.

[ThatOneGuy]

Ok I'll try to get to everyone in this post.

Yeah, I wanted to run tren higher since both tren and test will use the same receptors, obviously I want full utilization of the one that's 5x more anabolic. What are your reasons for adding dbol and anadrol? Let me know how it goes.

That sounds like a good idea on the vit B actually, I hadn't thought of that.

How old should I be to run tren do you think? I forgot to mention that I'm doing this way in advance, I plan to do one or two more cycles before this one. So I'd be starting tren around 24-25 years old.

I'm 5'9" to 5'10" 195 right now. Bodyfat around 13%. I've run two cycles and plan on one or two more before tren.

I would like to do HCG daily so levels are more stable. I read injecting daily is better at reducing sides. I already am doing it during the cycle and stopping a week before PCT.

I think that answers everyone. So critique away, the more the better.

[Lemonada8]

Doing HCG daily is a waste. Where did you read it about reducing sides and such? HCG is a hormone not a drug, they are similar but very different in length of action in the body.
Do it right up to the first day of PCT, you dont need to stop it a week before hand. e3d or 2x a week is plenty fine, doing it ED wont make a difference.

[ThatOneGuy]

It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

HCG Dosage
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500IU and 1000IU per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

It is important for the HCG administration to have been completed with 6 or 7 clear days before the onset of PCT in order to avoid inhibition of the Nolvadex and/or clomid therapy. Also, a small daily dose (10-20mg) of Nolvadex would normally be used in conjunction with HCG in order to prevent oestrogenic symptoms caused by sudden increases in aromatisation.

[Lemonada8]

Where did you copy and paste that from?

Some of that is right some is bs. Ill hit that later with actual studies and not a non-bibliography essay. I'm on my phone and studying now anyways

[ThatOneGuy]

I saw it in another thread but I remember coming across it in my research before. I'll try and find the site

[ThatOneGuy]

Edit

[jimmyinkedup]

http://***************.aspx

In accordance with the rules please edit your post and remove the link. Also as a new member i would encourage you to read the rules thoroughly so your time here can be as productive as possible.
Thank You .

[ThatOneGuy]

I'm sorry but I'm not advertising another forum, I fail to see which rule I broke. That website does have a forum but it is linked to an article and not the forum section. I will however edit my post as you wish. As you are here, do you have any feedback on the cycle I have posted?

[jimmyinkedup]

I'm sorry but I'm not advertising another forum, I fail to see which rule I broke. That website does have a forum but it is linked to an article and not the forum section. I will however edit my post as you wish. As you are here, do you have any feedback on the cycle I have posted?

I never said you were advertising for anyone - Rule # 11 clearly explains regardless of your intention no external links like the one you posted are allowed. Now that we are clear on that thanks for appropriately editing your post.

As far as you cycle - my advice to you is the most prudent decision you could possibly make at your age is to not use AAS at all. You should read the stickies here (you will find them above this forum - where the rules are) there are a few which clearly explain why I feel that way. I also dont give advice on hypothetical cycles that are 3-4 years down the road...seems pretty silly to do so IMO ...

Welcome to the forum - we have great diet ,workout and supplement sections that are all an immense help to everyone. My advice would be to check them out.

[Lemonada8]

The peaks of HCG in the body that is correlated with T production is about 72 hours. (Serum estradiol after single dose hCG administration correlates with Leydig cell reserve in hypogonadal men: reassessment of the hCG stimulation test. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16285473) Taking it ED is a waste.

"12 patients received hCG/hMG therapy according
to common clinical guidelines with 3 £ 150 IU hMG
subcutaneously per week and individually adapted
hCG doses ranging from 2 £ 500 to 2500 IU per week

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/66/6/1144.short
http://www.eje-online.org/content/147/5/617.short

There are SEVERAL academic studies out there showing the proper HCG protocal. So doing it ED is a waste, dont believe that bro-sci-crap that you read on that other forum. FYI, that PCT protocal is crap also. It is correct in the description of things but very incorrect on how to dose them. and the above was a 10 minute search on pubmed showing the correct way to do that stuff. This site's info is much better because a) we have mods here that are very up to date on this kind of information and b) all the articles and such on this site have bibliographys saying where they got their information, not just some guy writing it up and posting it on a page. IF its out there for people to use as advice and it doesnt have sources of where they got their information, then its crap. It doesnt work for writing papers in school, why would you trust it while messing around with your endocrine system?

[ThatOneGuy]

Jimmy, I buy everything in advance. I'll buy this cycle sometime soon but save it. It also helps me to get the cycle down so I know what I need to buy, how much it's going to cost so I can plan on how to save up for it. I guess I'm just a planner at heart.

And Lemon, so how should I run my PCT then? I was thinking that since I'll probably be running Proviron throughout that it would suffice with low dose of Nolvadex and normal clomid dosing without loading on Clomid. My plan was pretty much keep aromatisation lower with Proviron when on cycle so PCT would be easier and then just use Nolva and Clomid to block receptors and stimulate. And the HCG would help get my production up faster because I will be less atrophied.

[Lemonada8]

I would go with the good ole swifto PcT in that thread, with HCG during your cycle.

[ThatOneGuy]

Swifto PCT, can you link me to that? Thanks for the input btw

[Swifto]

Swifto PCT, can you link me to that? Thanks for the input btw

wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 2 weeks)
wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED
*Tribulus (Sopharma)
*Ashwagadha RE

If you prefer, you can go 40mg/ED Tamox frontload and keep Tore at 60mg/ED, but only for the first week with Tamox.

[Swifto]

ps.

Lemon is right about HCG dosing.

[jasc]

edited out...