Can't take SERM's..What would you do?

[australiandude]

Hi everyone,

what would you do if you are at week 3, first cycle, of a very low does of 250mg Test eth (weekly), and you have just realised you cannot take serms (Nolv, Clomid etc) for a particular reason.

Gym buddies tell me to keep going on my cycle as it is a very very low dose and I will be right with otc pct.

Constructive criticism welcome.

[AaronJM1984]

Damn bro, you def should have done your homework, but I think you know that so I won't harp on it. If I were you, I'd probably stop using the test now, perhaps your body hasn't been shut down yet. Going the distance with this cycle without having a PCT at the end is a BAD idea! Get you some zinc and magnesium, some tribulus, a multi vitamin and some of that over the counter shit like novadex

[ghettoboyd]

can you tell us why you cant take serms?..ive never heard of anyone not being able to so id like the input if you will...

[australiandude]

I had a DVT many years ago and stupid me failed to pick up during my research that a serious side to serm's and AI's are DVT's. I have fully recovered from my DVT and consider myself fit and healthy. I had my PCT good to go prior to ***mencing my low dose cycle although now I am lost.
Buddies say because it is such a low dose cycle, a OTC PCT which includes an androgenic estrogenic modulator and tribulus will be Ok.
What do yo reakon?????

[Swifto]

I had a DVT many years ago and stupid me failed to pick up during my research that a serious side to serm's and AI's are DVT's. I have fully recovered from my DVT and consider myself fit and healthy. I had my PCT good to go prior to ***mencing my low dose cycle although now I am lost.
Buddies say because it is such a low dose cycle, a OTC PCT which includes an androgenic estrogenic modulator and tribulus will be Ok.
What do yo reakon?????

How old are you?

This is one of the largest studies done on Tamoxifen and DVT/PE.





Cancer. 2009 Oct 1;115(19):4442-9.

Tamoxifen treatment and risk of deep venous thrombosis and pulmonary embolism: a Danish population-based cohort study.

Hernandez RK, Sørensen HT, Pedersen L, Jacobsen J, Lash TL.

SourceDepartment of Epidemiology, Boston University School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. [email protected]

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Tamoxifen therapy is reported to increase the risk of deep venous thrombosis and pulmonary embolism (DVT/PE). To the authors' knowledge, it is not yet known whether the risk changes with the amount of time elapsed since the initial tamoxifen prescription. This information would be valuable in identifying patients at high risk for DVT/PE.

METHODS: The relation between timing of tamoxifen use and venous thromboembolism risk was examined. The study population of 16,289 women was identified from the clinical database of the Danish Breast Cancer Cooperative Group. It included women diagnosed with International Union Against Cancer (UICC) stage I or stage II estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer between 1990 and 2004 at ages 45 to 69 years. Risks, risk ratios (RRs), and crude and adjusted hazards ratios were calculated for each of the first 5 years after breast cancer surgery and then cumulatively over the next 5 years.

RESULTS: The 5-year risk of DVT/PE was 1.2% for women receiving tamoxifen and 0.50% for women not receiving tamoxifen. Women treated with tamoxifen were at a higher risk for DVT/PE during the first 2 years after exposure (RR, 3.5; 95% confidence interval [95% CI], 2.1-6.0). Subsequently, their risk was not found to be substantially increased (RR, 1.5; 95% CI, 0.88-2.5). Older women taking tamoxifen appeared to be at higher risk than younger women during the first 2 years of exposure.

CONCLUSIONS: The findings of the current study suggest that the first 2 years after the initiation of tamoxifen therapy may be the most crucial time for monitoring DVT/PE risk, particularly in older women.

2009 American Cancer Society.



Few things.

- Large study number

- Low % of DVT/PE

- Women

- Chances of developing DVT/PE on Tamox is double.

- First 2 years of exposure is the highest risk

I asked your age becaue this can really increase your chances.

[JohnnyVegas]

Swifto to the rescue.

[Swifto]

In this study, "Raloxifene is as effective as tamoxifen in reducing the risk of invasive breast cancer and has a lower risk of thromboembolic events and cataracts...".

To continue, "However, there was a statistically significant difference between the treatment groups for the incidence of thromboembolic events, with the raloxifene group experiencing fewer cases of pulmonary embolism and DVT. Overall, there were 141 events with tamoxifen and 100 with raloxifene, indicating that the risk was 30% less in the raloxifene group (RR, 0.70; 95% CI, 0.54-0.91)."

So Rolax is less of a risk to you than Tamox, but unfortunately is not as good at raising endogenous testosterone.

[australiandude]

Thanks for taking the time Swifto.
I am 39.
I have been researching into very short cycles (obviously far less gains) and OTC PCT only.
Appreciate your thoughts mate.

[Swifto]

Swifto to the rescue.

Always.

I dont want to suggest using SERMs, but in my limited opinion, the risks are very rare, as shown by the number (frist study).

Your also on SERMs for 5-6 weeks. The first study is done over 5 years at 20mg/ED.

As an alternative, some OTC herbs, such as Lj100 (large doses), Ashwagandha RE, DAA can raise Test.