Please help with BW numbers

[bullshark99]

Age 43, 6'1" 210 about 22%BF. Feeling run down, all the classical symptoms of low T, went to clinic last Febuary had blood work completed and "of course" I was a "perfect" canadate for TRT (supposedly). My numbers (what I feel is important) before starting are as follows PSA 1.7, FSH 4.9 (1.5-12.4) , LH 4.1 (1.7-8.6), Estradol 20.2 (7.6-42), Total T 418 (280-1100), SHBG 34 (10-80), T free 8.61 (1.9-27), IGF-1 157 (101-267).
This clinic has since been shut down. My protocol was 200mg T cyp EW, .5 Anaszotole 3X per wk, (no HcG) was never even mentioned. Not happy about this. Went off everything, fortunetly I had PCT. 10 days HcG 1000iu ED, 20 something days of Tamoxifen. Was off for 2 months. Body completely went to crap, mostly poor diet and no desir eto train.

10 Weeks ago, started with a new clinic, feel great. This one has me 200 mg T, .5 Anas and 500iu HcG twice per week.

My question and concerns are as follows
First let me say I feel wonderful and would like to continue as is but my bloodwork concerns me but the clinic tells me its perfect. Please advise???
Total T=1441, T Free=432 (35-155) Wow, that seems HIGH, I'm told "buetiful", also Estradol 48 (13-54) they said bump up the AI a litle. Dhea 417 (45-345) PSA 1.9.

My blood work was done 36 hours after my last injection so I know these are peak levels but does that Free T concern anybody???? Seems pretty darn high to me. Was also told total tes should be 1200-1600 so Im ideal???? I know on day 6 or 7 this wouldnt be 1441, probably would be in the upper quartile of normal. Next time I will geyt blood work done on day 7.

Anyway what do you all think about these results????

Thank you in advance for your guidence!

[Lemonada8]

Wow, those are high values.
Do you self regulate injections? seems you have enough to blast and cruise, by doing less now and saving it then doing a blast phase basically just like a cycle.

Your test is too high IMO for constant levels.

and 200 test cyp a week is 2x what normally is givine, its usually 200mg test cyp every 2 weeks.

[steroid.com 1]

How you feel is critical and the first thing a Doc should ask. So, glade to hear you're feeling great...blood work does follow however so your concerns are legit. [/B]

Please advise???
Total T=1441
At this point Total T is somewhat less important then Bio-available T and/or Free T; that being said this is high. Can you provide the reference range? My guess it's probably 1100.


T Free=432 (35-155) Wow, that seems HIGH, I'm told "beautiful",
It is high...very high...and there are many things that can happen to you when you are above the high normal optimal range for long periods of time. Is the quote "beautiful" from a licensed Physician? Google high testosterone levels and pathologies for more.

also Estradol 48 (13-54) they said bump up the AI a litle.
That's all they said "bump up the AI dosage a little" nothing like add in another .5 mg on and EOD basis. Your E2 is high and you are probably exhibiting neg sides as well. Your converting a lot of the Test you are taking into unwanted E2.


Dhea 417 (45-345)
Supplementing DHEA?

PSA 1.9.
Ok, but a little high for a guys your age. Could be the high Test levels as well.

My blood work was done 36 hours after my last injection so I know these are peak levels but does that Free T concern anybody????
Yes, sustained for long period of times can be as detrimental as low Testosterone. Do some research.

Seems pretty darn high to me.
It is.

Was also told total tes should be 1200-1600 so Im ideal????
First need reference range but if we used Lab Corp reference range you are over the top and out of the ideal range...that said, Total Test is less important then % Free or Bio-available.


I know on day 6 or 7 this wouldn't be 1441, probably would be in the upper quartile of normal. Next time I will geyt blood work done on day 7.

Anyway what do you all think about these results????
In bold above. IMO, you may want to reduce your weekly Test dosage to 120 split into two equal injections say Monday AM and Thursday PM. This will bring down the Total and Free to more normalized levels. This will also help with the aromitazation that's taking place. If you do reduce keep you AI dosage the same for about a week to 10 days, this will bring down your elevated levels. Then go .5 mf 12 to 24 hours after each Test injection.

Your putting too much in and it shows in your resutls...again...just my opinion.

Thank you in advance for your guidence!

Above in Bold. Just my $0.02.

[bass]

nice response GD!

BullShark, i was concerned about your PSA levels, getting loaded with that much testosterone isn't going to help. did you abstain from sex/ejaculation for at least 24 hours before giving blood? ejaculation can raise your PSA levels. any doc or clinic that says "beautiful" to your results is money hungry, they want you on high doses so they can sell you more. my clinics prescribed 200 mgs per week and my levels were like yours and even higher, so taking the advice of many experienced TRT'ers especially GDevine i reduced my dose to 120 and will never look back, i feel my best at this dose, much better for my health and definitely much easier on my wallet!

[Vettester]

GD's comments are spot-on, I would follow his advise.

You mention that your "T" levels wouldn't be so high on day 6 or 7, so next time you would do BW on day 7. This strategy might give you a lower overall score, but don't you really want to know where your peak and median values are? The clinic likes this protocol because they get to SELL you more product; meaning more profit. Adding more AI isn't the solution IMO. The trick is to keep everything in balance. In your case, you could probably see great results at 1/2 of what you're doing. 100mg/wk of cyp, 250iu x 3 eod on the hcg would be a possible alternative. Your E2 conversion would be reduced, which would allow you to use a minimal amount of Anastrozole; possbly .25mg x 2 or 3/wk.

Also agree on the PSA concern. Keep a close eye on this. Any family members with problems that might indicate a predisposition to a condition?

[fit2bOld]

Can't add anything that GD, Vette or Bass didnt get covered. GD is spot on as to frequency of injections and keeping levels steady especially when it come to controlling estrogen conversion.

[bullshark99]

GD, Bass and the others, you nguys are AWESOME!!! Thank you so much for your honest opinion/feedback. Maybe not what I wante dto hear because I am feeling real good and making great strides in hte gym, but that said, long term health is obviously Num 1. Supplement Dhea, YES just 25mg ove rthe counter GNC, Is this wrong? PSA, yes dont like that number there, what I didnt mention is right BEFORE I went off for 2 months during the summer a blood test I requested (just a CBC) had my PSA at 2.4. This scared the hell out of me. Went to a urologist and came clean with everything, he did DRE (No Fun) but said felt fine. said to come back in 60 days once off completly and re-do PSA. I did and the value was 1.35. He said it spiked prob from inflamation/BPH. Said it was ok to continue with T replacment. So actually I didnt feel alarmed with a 1.9 considering my baseline was 1.7 before I even started.
I will tone down the dosage per everyones advice. What should I do now with the A.I??? There answer was to switch me to the 1.2mg rather than the .5. Right now I was told to take 5 .5 EW., until I re-order?? Yes I agree, these places are concerned about selling product, not people. I trust what I am hearing here more than anything, so I thank you all again.
If you would be kind enough for some direction on the Dhea, A.I and also the Hcg considering I will pump 120mg per week moving forward. Yes, I self inject and its gone smooth for the most part but I really would rather not do this twice per week if it could be avoided.

thanks again guys,

Lastly Bass, you indicated you felt best at ( i Beleive u said 120) per week. Any drop off in the gym? Just curious

[Brohim]

Bro get 31 g. insulin needle 5/16 Inch and inject 2x per week.

[bass]

GD, Bass and the others, you nguys are AWESOME!!! Thank you so much for your honest opinion/feedback. Maybe not what I wante dto hear because I am feeling real good and making great strides in hte gym, but that said, long term health is obviously Num 1. Supplement Dhea, YES just 25mg ove rthe counter GNC, Is this wrong? PSA, yes dont like that number there, what I didnt mention is right BEFORE I went off for 2 months during the summer a blood test I requested (just a CBC) had my PSA at 2.4. This scared the hell out of me. Went to a urologist and came clean with everything, he did DRE (No Fun) but said felt fine. said to come back in 60 days once off completly and re-do PSA. I did and the value was 1.35. He said it spiked prob from inflamation/BPH. Said it was ok to continue with T replacment. So actually I didnt feel alarmed with a 1.9 considering my baseline was 1.7 before I even started.
I will tone down the dosage per everyones advice. What should I do now with the A.I??? There answer was to switch me to the 1.2mg rather than the .5. Right now I was told to take 5 .5 EW., until I re-order?? Yes I agree, these places are concerned about selling product, not people. I trust what I am hearing here more than anything, so I thank you all again.
If you would be kind enough for some direction on the Dhea, A.I and also the Hcg considering I will pump 120mg per week moving forward. Yes, I self inject and its gone smooth for the most part but I really would rather not do this twice per week if it could be avoided.

thanks again guys,

Lastly Bass, you indicated you felt best at ( i Beleive u said 120) per week. Any drop off in the gym? Just curious

when i reduced my dose to 120 ew i started anavar as well, so strength was through the roof, now that i stopped var i am sure my strength will go down a little. but will let you know how i feel 3-4 weeks from now.

[bullshark99]

Brohim,

Forgive my ignorance but im confused, use 5/16 insulin needles and go 2 per wk? Im currnetly injecting 1.5 inch in my ass, where would I inject using insulin needles?
Thanks

[ecdysone]

Anywhere you want

I use quads area, but anywhere convenient is fine.

You be doing a subcutaneous (depending on the spot) injection. Probably the only downside is that it takes a lot more technique, as in slow & easy.

Do a little research on SQ/test injections. I takes more work and you have to be careful but the pain factor is less!

I modified my technique a bit, so I'm probably using a combination of SQ/IM.

[steroid.com 1]

Anywhere you want


I modified my technique a bit, so I'm probably using a combination of SQ/IM.

I do the same and also change up dosage amounts per injection - same amount each week just different amounts when I inject.

[bass]

Brohim,

Forgive my ignorance but im confused, use 5/16 insulin needles and go 2 per wk? Im currnetly injecting 1.5 inch in my ass, where would I inject using insulin needles?
Thanks

read this thread,

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...starting-today!

[bullshark99]

Great thread Bass, you got my attention here. i have difficulty pinning on the left side, been hitting the right side and its starting to take some wear and tear. Can a guy alternate between IM and Sub (Stomach) or will that mess up timing and absorbtion? I have no problem with the stomach HcG shots and dont mind being patient loading the "gun". Also, am I correct that the upper arm/shoulder would work?? My first stint, that is where they had me do the HcG for 10 days as part of PCT. Wasnt a bad place to hit.

[Brohim]

I'm pretty sure 5/16 you can get them anywhere bro. shoulder, thigh you name it. Not in the fat ass though. Insulin needles are best for small dose test. If you do one big shot I would pull with a 21 g. and switch the needle to a 25g.

[bass]

Great thread Bass, you got my attention here. i have difficulty pinning on the left side, been hitting the right side and its starting to take some wear and tear. Can a guy alternate between IM and Sub (Stomach) or will that mess up timing and absorbtion? I have no problem with the stomach HcG shots and dont mind being patient loading the "gun". Also, am I correct that the upper arm/shoulder would work?? My first stint, that is where they had me do the HcG for 10 days as part of PCT. Wasnt a bad place to hit.

why bather twisting your arm or body, belly is the simplest! you may get a lump and some soreness but that will go away by the second shot. remember to massage for at least a minute after injection. not sure if it makes a difference alternating between SQ and IM, but believe me once you experience how easy it is doing SQ you will never go back!

[bullshark99]

Ok, some times I'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch, just so I understand, 5/16 insulin needle, draw directly out of the vial (clean top first) pull plunger slowly and probably dick around for 5 mins while it fills, then shoot directly say 2 inches from navel right into the belly fat? If this is just as effective as IM, I would prefer this anyday. Would have no problem going 2X per week. Lastly, I bumped the HcG in my arm before (3 months ago PCT) this new clinic Im with said that was useless, needed to be SUB whatever, any merit to that?