Cardio During a Cycle?

[jackhammer7]

I haven't seen much about actually training performed while on any kind of steroid cycle. Should training vary from an established routine? I perform light cardio after resistance training. Should that amount of cardio be maintined or should the primary focus be only on strength and resistance training?

[jp_2011]

In my opinion cardio should be done year round, wether ur on or off gear, off season or pre contest. The frequency and intensity should vary though depending on ur present goals. For example off season i will only do 30 min cardio 2-3 times a week, pre contest i will do 30 min 5 times a week at the start of my diet and increase it to 7 times a week further on, some times near the end i can be doing 30 min 7 days with 2 xtra 30 min sessions before my last meal 2 days. But regardless of bein on or off a cycle i reccomend cardio, not just for keepin bf low but also helpin wi stamina n endurence wen liftin weights.

[Dr Pepper]

Goals for the cycle?

[Pac Man]

I agree with jp with the exception of tren. Cardio while on tren could lead to ventricular hypertrophy.
Cardio is important if only for health purposes

[Sgt. Hartman]

In my opinion cardio should be done year round, wether ur on or off gear, off season or pre contest. The frequency and intensity should vary though depending on ur present goals. For example off season i will only do 30 min cardio 2-3 times a week, pre contest i will do 30 min 5 times a week at the start of my diet and increase it to 7 times a week further on, some times near the end i can be doing 30 min 7 days with 2 xtra 30 min sessions before my last meal 2 days. But regardless of bein on or off a cycle i reccomend cardio, not just for keepin bf low but also helpin wi stamina n endurence wen liftin weights.

^^^^Agreed.

[hankdiesel]

In my opinion cardio should be done year round, wether ur on or off gear, off season or pre contest. The frequency and intensity should vary though depending on ur present goals. For example off season i will only do 30 min cardio 2-3 times a week, pre contest i will do 30 min 5 times a week at the start of my diet and increase it to 7 times a week further on, some times near the end i can be doing 30 min 7 days with 2 xtra 30 min sessions before my last meal 2 days. But regardless of bein on or off a cycle i reccomend cardio, not just for keepin bf low but also helpin wi stamina n endurence wen liftin weights.

This is EXACTLY what I do and I'm surprised how many other competitors don't follow an offseason cardio program. I'm sure the op doesn't compete but I definitley wanted to comment on this. I'm able to stay pretty lean and eat just about whatever I want while still making nice gains.

[Black]

Regardless of goals, at the bare minimum, low intensity cardio should be performed all year at least for cardiovascular health benefits.

[FireGuy]

I agree with jp with the exception of tren. Cardio while on tren could lead to ventricular hypertrophy.
Cardio is important if only for health purposes

Do you have any evidence to support this and if so why would tren affect ventricular muscle tissue while other AAS wouldnt? Also, whats the difference between an elevated HR doing cardio and and elevated HR for 45 minutes while weight training?

[jackhammer7]

My paticular goals are for strength and fitness. I've never used any type of testerone enhancing supplement but prohormones. I have been lifting for 2&1/2 years and am focused on just getting stronger, toning my physique a bit more. Strength is my primary goal, kinda looking at powerlifting sometime in the future.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I agree with jp with the exception of tren. Cardio while on tren could lead to ventricular hypertrophy.
Cardio is important if only for health purposes

That's a very misleading statement, care to elaborate?

[jimmyinkedup]

Llewellyn specificcaly pointed out this in Anabolics 9th edition - somewhat singling out tren as the most significant contributor. Its pretty well documented that all aas use contributes to this. However it should be pointed out that all exercise steroid free does as well. Heres a study comparing athetes that used aas and those that didnt showing a diff in left ventricular hypertrophy even years after stopping steroid use between the 2 groups. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768225/
Is their any clinical significance in these differences - i dont know.
I think this occurs with all aas to a degree (like Fire eluded too) but I also think the single most prudent thing you can do to minimze this as well as other adverse sides is something we should all do, especially on cycle, and that is monitor and control our BP.
I have to be honest, whether right or wrong, this is the reason I limit my cardio to low to moderate intensity and even duration while on cycle. Then again i dont compete so ive never achieved or strived for <5% bf.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Llewellyn specificcaly pointed out this in Anabolics 9th edition - somewhat singling out tren as the most significant contributor. Its pretty well documented that all aas use contributes to this. However it should be pointed out that all exercise steroid free does as well. Heres a study comparing athetes that used aas and those that didnt showing a diff in left ventricular hypertrophy even years after stopping steroid use between the 2 groups. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768225/
Is their any clinical significance in these differences - i dont know.
I think this occurs with all aas to a degree (like Fire eluded too) but I also think the single most prudent thing you can do to minimze this as well as other adverse sides is something we should all do, especially on cycle, and that is monitor and control our BP.
I have to be honest, whether right or wrong, this is the reason I limit my cardio to low to moderate intensity and even duration while on cycle. Then again i dont compete so ive never achieved or strived for <5% bf.

I've just recently been trying to read up on this - my AAS cycles so far have been very conservative so it hasn't been much of a concern, but that's about to change so this is something I'm trying to understand the risks of.

I haven't read anything that specifically links tren to left ventricular hypertrophy moreso than testosterone or other steroids, you say Llewellyn wrote about it in his book which I haven't read, so does he cite any studies or factual info about tren specifically or is it his opinion?

Another thing I question is that cardio and the elevated heart rate is what actually causes the hypertrophy. This seems logical and makes sense but if that were true then it seems that endurance athletes who use AAS would be more prone to LVH than strength athletes and this doesn't seem to be the case according to this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10645932. Everything I read shows that powerlifters, bodybuilders, ie. groups who have high levels of LBM who use AAS, are the most at risk. So who knows what the cardio/elevated HR connection is or even if there is one.

I'm wondering if AAS and increasing LBM are the direct links to LVH, and cardio sessions could possibly minimize the effects. I'd really like to see if anyone has info on whether or not it's the actual elevated heart rate while on AAS that is the direct cause, I suspect it's not. Nearly everything I read shows that AAS and LVH are directly linked but the exact mechanism by which it occurs is not fully understood. I definitely agree about monitoring blood pressure while on cycle, not just for general health but because there appears to be a direct link between increased BP and LVH. Maybe elevated BP could be a warning sign that LVH is taking place?

Here's a couple more interesting studies http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768197/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1917226

Like I said, I just started looking into this so please correct me if I have it all wrong but I would like to hear other's thoughts and opinions on this.

[jimmyinkedup]

I think your looking at a primary cause and considering it an effect. LV hypertrphy is a result of High bp - not vice versa.
I think thats why its so prudent to monitor BP.

[Sgt. Hartman]

That is what I was getting at but I said it wrong. Are you saying that LVH cannot occur without elevated BP though?

[jackhammer7]

Okay more bluntly I would like to do an amateur powerlifting competition in the future just to experience it. At the same time I enjoy doing things like the warrior dash/ dirty dash which are like 5k obstacle courses so I want to maintain decent cardio and add muscle mass at the same time. It sounds like that would be no problem continuing with my current 30min interval training after I lift. I am looking into doing my first cycle and I am looking at using a simple test so there won't be any of the worries you guys are discussing concerning tren. Thank you guys, I appreciate you sharing the knowledge.

[jimmyinkedup]

I dont want to exceed or mislead my knowledge on the topic. I do not know for sure but knowing even in the abscence of aas that it is the leading cause of LV hypertrophy and knowing the effects aas have on BP it just makes sense to work to monitor and control bp on cycle for this (and other) reasons.
I could speculate as to other reasons as to why aas may contribute ti this but it doesnt make sense to look past the primary reason and the reason we have the greatest ability to monitor and even control.(or at least it doesnt make sense for me to post those speculations not knowing if they are fact).

[jimmyinkedup]

Oh as far as llwellyn - i think he singled out tren due to its impact on lipids , trigylcerides ( tren has prob the most adverse imopact on these 2 things - prob due to being such a strong progestin and the fact it doesnt aromatize to estrogen) as well as bp. All 3 main contributing factors to heart disease and lv hypertrophy.

[aronjrsmil]

Cardio will always help out your cycle. If you are feeding yourself properly you will not need to worry about losing muscle and cardio will help remove body fat.

[Lemonada8]

Cardio is very important to do regardless of on cycle or off cycle... IMO you should increase your duration of low impact cardio (elepitical for 45 minutes while in the 60-70% range of Max HR 5 days/week is pretty easy)
Not only does it help loosen up your muscles and remove excess lactic acid buildup from heavy weights, it also helps keep LVH to a minimum, and a good way to catch up on Sportscenter :-)

The reason that u get LV Hypertrophy is due to the need for increased cardiac output, increased force production, increased HR, (increased BP also has a part). SO during exercise the elevated HR for a constant duration will increase heart function. notice i said heart function. Now with regards to the increased BP, that would be more of a constant duration thing (so it happens even when you arent exercising) with elevated BP, the heart is having to beat harder to push against the pressure thats in the system already. With increased duration of this, like any muscle it will increase contractilie fibers and since the LV is what pumps blood throughout the entire body that is where the greatest increase of growth is going to be.

However there is a difference between heavy weights and cardio and the elevated HR during. The difference is the valsalva moves that you do to push the heavy weight. This rapidly increases the pressure in the body. This pressure also exerts force on the outside of the heart keeping it contained in a smaller space. When the heart is confined in a smaller space and has to beat harder to get blood out to the tissues the only thing it can really do is get thicker muscle to push past the outside pressure (valsalva) and the BP (constant day to day).
With cardio exercise, you dont have the same increase of pressure in the body where the heart is because you arent doing valsava moves which isnt putting increased pressure on the heart, so it is allowed to expand more in the ventricles which increases cardiac output. Thats how endurance exercise combined with strength training can help prevent LVH to a pathologic state because you allow the heart to stretch out and fill with more blood so with every pump it can pump out more blood.

Cardiac output = Heart rate X Stroke volume
cardiac output increases during exercise because the body demands it.
With heavy lifting you have a larger increase in HR but not much change in SV
With endurance you have a larger change in SV but not HR

so when you are on a cycle, with ANY excess androgen; the reason ur on them is to increase muscle mass right? and you are going to exercise with strong intensity to get those goals? well dont forget your heart is a muscle and can undergo the same responses that your 'biceps' do when you increase the work it has to do. so by skipping out on cardio your heart has a much larger change to grow but thankfully there is room for it to grow, it will all depend on your individual genetics; but since noone really knows what your genes say with that, its much smarter to include cardio during your cycle


The issue with increased lipids and the other factors mentioned is that increases the force needed to pump the blood throughout the body. Increased lipids will decrease the flow of the blood requiring more force to move the same distance. and when more force is needed, remember the heart is a muscle.

[Swifto]

Oh as far as llwellyn - i think he singled out tren due to its impact on lipids , trigylcerides ( tren has prob the most adverse imopact on these 2 things - prob due to being such a strong progestin and the fact it doesnt aromatize to estrogen) as well as bp. All 3 main contributing factors to heart disease and lv hypertrophy.

I'm not going to add anything that already been discussed here. You guys have looked at all the causative factors well IMHO.

Lipid profiles, blood pressure, estrogens effects on cardiovascular health, direct effects on the heart and testosterone deficiency will alll contribute to problems pertaining to CHD. Lowering estrogen too much will again affect CHD by causing an adverse lipid enviroment.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Thanks for the info guys.

[jackhammer7]

Again thanks. The knowledge put down in this forum is astounding. As a new member I really appreciate all the educational help offered.

[ramacher]

Also no cardio during PCT!!!

[Paul_Mc1989]

Great thread..... ramacher why no cardio during PCT is it solely to keep your gains?will cardio adversely affect this.....

[jasc]

Cardio is left out in the beginning of pct because your test levels are low and you are already closer to a catabolic state. Cardio and intense workouts can put you in to a state of catabolism and the last thing you want is to burn any hard-earned muscle. Its good to take a short break or tone down your workouts the first week or 2. Keep weight training sessions to around 30 min n lower the intensity

[Lemonada8]

Cardio is left out in the beginning of pct because your test levels are low and you are already closer to a catabolic state. Cardio and intense workouts can put you in to a state of catabolism and the last thing you want is to burn any hard-earned muscle. Its good to take a short break or tone down your workouts the first week or 2. Keep weight training sessions to around 30 min n lower the intensity

I think that is overrated.. Cardio shouldnt be totally removed from any workout regardless of the usage of AAS. The reduction in intensity of workouts is spot on, but cardio shouldnt be left out.

[Revelations]

Cardio is left out in the beginning of pct because your test levels are low and you are already closer to a catabolic state. Cardio and intense workouts can put you in to a state of catabolism and the last thing you want is to burn any hard-earned muscle. Its good to take a short break or tone down your workouts the first week or 2. Keep weight training sessions to around 30 min n lower the intensity

Ok so for example, if I was on a Test E cycle..I could continue to do cardio and have intense workouts 2 wks following my last pin. But as soon as I start my PCT I should stop the intense workout/cardio for an additional 2 wks and then start back with cardio and routine workouts? I'm just trying to clear things up for myself.