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Thread: Back in the game, desperate for help!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Back in the game, desperate for help!

    Hey guys,

    it's been a while since I've been on the forums. In that time I've become sloppier than I would like and I need some help getting back on track.

    I'm in the process of writing up a diet but I would like a couple of questions answered (if possible), before I start playing with any macros.

    First some background as to better help you, help me I will try to be as detailed as possible so bare with me.

    Goals:
    get down to 10%bf or lower, whilst maintaining as much muscle (if not all) as possible.

    First my stats.
    Age: 20
    Height: round 6.1"
    weight: 191lbs
    bf%: round 16% -this is my guesstimate, though I'd dare say fairly accurate as I have had a few others say the same. - I can clearly see my top 4 abs and my stomach is flat. I know this isn't much of an indication however, and I'll post pictures soon.
    lifting exp: 3+yrs
    cycle exp: 0

    As a side note, I know 191lbs at my height with that percentage of bodyfat seems quite light but I actually have decent size for my weight. I've had many people tell me they expect me to be at least 16-20lbs heavy. Again, I know this is a poor indication and will post pics asap.

    Having said that, I worked out my BMR and TDEE using the Harris benedict forumla provided in the sticky and they seem a bit off...Information is as follows;

    BMR=2042 TDEE=(1.725 or very active) 3522

    Feel free to check my calculations if these figures seem strange to you!

    In terms of training, I adhere to a 6day split. I train each muscle group, (excluding calves, which are done twice per week) once per week only. I split quads and hams on different days and train calves respectively with each.
    As for cardio, I am not a fan of HIT nor interval. I generally stick to a steady, continuous pace, 45mins and do this everyday expect the days I train legs (and sundays) or 4 times a week. I was originally doing this fasted of a morning, however, until I go back to work I am waking up late and this means I will usually miss a meal. On the topic of work, there is no exertion involved, so whether I am working or not TDEE will remain the same.
    Rep range falls between 6-10, although slightly higher (12+) when I train legs and calves. Having said that, provided I am taking the muscle to failure on every set, I'm not overly concerned with rep range. Obviously strength is a good indication of size, but again, I am not overly concerned. What matters is that I am taking the muscle through the full range of motion, controlling the movement (no jerky movements).
    My staple exercises consist of basic compund, heavy movements, with an emphasis on squats and stiffs. (I generally do stiffs as I feel it isolates the qlutes and hams better as oposed to the normal variation, though i switch it up every 3-4weeks, just for some variety). I usually will only throw in one isolation movement per muscle group, all following the compound lifts.
    A basic outline of my split is as follows;

    Monday: quads/calves
    consists of 3 exercises and 3 sets of each, all to failure, excluding squats which I do 4 sets of.

    Tuesday: chest
    consits of 3 exercises and 3 sets of each

    Wednesday: back
    see above

    Thursday: hams/calves/abs
    see above

    Friday: shoulders/traps
    shoulders: 3x3 / traps: 2x3

    Saturday: arms
    see above

    Sunday: complete rest

    Originally I was doing 4 exercises for each muscle group with 4 sets for each (all major muscle groups, excluding arms and calves, which remained at 3 exercises with 3 sets for each). However, I thought this to be overkill, especially since I am not on AAS. - I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter though.

    Ok. Now that we've got the background covered the questions.

    1- my TDEE seems very high and I am skeptical as to whether a 500caloric defecit will yield any fat loss? -I also worked out my TDEE based on LBM but there was relatively no difference in results.

    2- If in fact a 500 caloric defecit will fail to yield any fat loss, how should I proceed, whilst trying to conserve as much muscle as possible?

    3- Is my weight training routine a little on the excessive side, or should I go back to 4 exercises per major muscle group with 4 sets for each?

    4- Should I consider doing the whole leg workout on the one day, only divided into morning and afternnon?

    5- Is carb cycling a good option at 17bf% or should I wait until I lower it somewhat?

    6- In terms of cardio, I was watching a training video of Dorian Yates and he stated that cardio following weight training is counter productive because this is when your body most requires rest?? Does anyone have any evidence, either for or against? - Having said this, I understand that ANY cardio is better than no cardio, as Nark put it.

    7- As of late, I have not been worried about how many calories I consume per meal (I eat 6 btw), only concerned with getting all my macros in for the day, as some meals are larger than others, (namely breakfast and pre and post workout). Although I do make sure to space my protein out evenly over the day. However I've recently been told that I should be striving to have the same number of calories per meal, every meal. For example, a person on a 2000cal diet. He eats 6 meals a day. Equates to 333calories per meal. Is the reasoning accurate, or should I ignore it??

    I am sure that I will have more questions as we go along, but for now that pretty much sums it up.

    Any and all advice will be appreciated, thanks in advance.

    ~A

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    HEY BGC WELCOME..
    1.too much info LOL or im too lazy.. either way..

    2.use katch/mcardle formula for calculating bmr and tdee:
    bmr:1941 tdee:3010(5days/week multiplier)

    3.if i understood correctly u were doing fasted cardio but now that u dont have a job ur sleeping in and thats why ur not doing it? LOL if so i say get up and do it! fasted cardio is the way to go for cutting IMO..pretty much the only cardio i do.. id also suggest u do it 5-6days per week instead of 4..

    4. 320p/120c/49f at 2200cals/day is what id recommend to ya..

    split ur protein 6 meals and ur carbs meal1, pre w/o, PWO only (except if u have lowfat cottage cheese before bed..a good slow digesting protein to eat then)... now wheres that diet??

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    ^^ Pretty much everything here.

    Id try add a couple PWO cardio sessions too can be done at a higher intensity. I like the split 405 gave too. A 800-900 cal deficit is a good place to start IMO and cardio will only further that for you.
    Post up a diet and everyone will take a look.

    Good Luck

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Thanks man

    Quote Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- View Post
    HEY BGC WELCOME..
    1.too much info LOL or im too lazy.. either way..
    - lol, I'm lazy too! I know I went a little overboard with info, but I figured if anyone had any questions later all they'd have to do is scroll up.

    2.use katch/mcardle formula for calculating bmr and tdee:
    bmr:1941 tdee:3010(5days/week multiplier)
    why the 5days/week multiplier. Would I not fit into the 6-7 days/week bracket training weights 6x and cardio 4x per week?

    3.if i understood correctly u were doing fasted cardio but now that u dont have a job ur sleeping in and thats why ur not doing it? LOL if so i say get up and do it! fasted cardio is the way to go for cutting IMO..pretty much the only cardio i do.. id also suggest u do it 5-6days per week instead of 4..
    - As a I said, I'm a bit too lazy, but I'm going back to work in less than a week so I won't be able to do cardio fasted of a morning anyway.

    4. 320p/120c/49f at 2200cals/day is what id recommend to ya..

    split ur protein 6 meals and ur carbs meal1, pre w/o, PWO only (except if u have lowfat cottage cheese before bed..a good slow digesting protein to eat then)... now wheres that diet??
    This is exactly what I've been doing

    Answers above in bold.
    Thanks
    Last edited by BGC123; 01-31-2012 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by -KJ- View Post
    ^^ Pretty much everything here.

    Id try add a couple PWO cardio sessions too can be done at a higher intensity. I like the split 405 gave too. A 800-900 cal deficit is a good place to start IMO and cardio will only further that for you.
    Post up a diet and everyone will take a look.

    Good Luck
    Hey KJ,

    again, wouldn't maintaining a caloric defecit of 8-900+ for any period of time start chewing through my muscle?

    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGC123 View Post
    Hey KJ,

    again, wouldn't maintaining a caloric defecit of 8-900+ for any period of time start chewing through my muscle?

    Thanks

    im currently cutting at 900cals below tdee and only 100g carbs.. i keep protein at 300g and have actually increased lbm by 4lbs and lost about 27lbs fat in 4 months... thats why u have an abundance of protein and also ingest 10g bcaa pre fasted cardio

  7. #7
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    to answer ur question about the multiplier.. it is considered around here to be errant to the high side of an estimation... 1.55 is a good starting place.. i havent encountered anyone needling 1.75 except maybe one guy ive never heard back from and i think he was on a bulk.. if i were u id do the 1.55 800-900 shy and keep protein high and watch ur LBM weekly.. as long as its not dropping alot id stay with the 1.55 ... as well as see my post above..

    id also like to note i do all my cardio am fasted 5-6 days/week 45 mins ..sometimes HIIT.. and i have to be at work at 0650 and wake up at 0430 to make sure i get cardio dun.. this is after working some days til 2300.. like today so ur talkn to the wrong guy about work being a reason to not get up early... go to bed earlier ..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- View Post
    to answer ur question about the multiplier.. it is considered around here to be errant to the high side of an estimation... 1.55 is a good starting place.. i havent encountered anyone needling 1.75 except maybe one guy ive never heard back from and i think he was on a bulk.. if i were u id do the 1.55 800-900 shy and keep protein high and watch ur LBM weekly.. as long as its not dropping alot id stay with the 1.55 ... as well as see my post above..

    id also like to note i do all my cardio am fasted 5-6 days/week 45 mins ..sometimes HIIT.. and i have to be at work at 0650 and wake up at 0430 to make sure i get cardio dun.. this is after working some days til 2300.. like today so ur talkn to the wrong guy about work being a reason to not get up early... go to bed earlier ..
    -Noted. I'll give this a try for a week or two and monitor my LBM. If there is a decrease in muscle I can always adjust before it't too late.

    - You're 100% right man, it's a poor excuse. I've got to be willing to do whatever it takes if I want to make this work.

    btw, do you suggest carb cycling, or simply maintaining this defecit on a daily basis?
    Last edited by BGC123; 02-01-2012 at 03:47 AM.

  9. #9
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    I'll post a diet up in a day or two with the stats you've provided.

  10. #10
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    carb cycling has proven to be an effective way to lose fat for sure.. GBrice is one of the guys on here that does it as well as im sure many others... it is not something ive tried yet.. ive strictly been runnin a low carb diet.. the reason i havent tried it is cuz every week i chek my bf% and it keeps going down.. if it aint broke

    another thing.. when i started my cut i was fat (22%bf) and had been pretty lazy for awhile.. a certain amt of lbm can be expected to be lost when cutting for some if not a good percentage of people.. part of the reason i didnt lose any i think was my high protein as well as coming from fat and lazy to wkn out hard with proper diet and i all this coincided with me starting TRT.. in the beginning my lbm droppd a touch here and there.. be sure to post ur stats weekly if possible and the guys on here that know more than i do(most of em LOL) will be better equippd to instruct necessary changes..

    all the info im giving u is based solely on my own personal experience.. i think its a good starting approach..esp if uve been out of the gym and acquired some bf lately

  11. #11
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    At ~16% and assuming you get sufficient protein, your body has very little reason to burn LBM even with a decent caloric restriction. Starving yourself, or doing high intensity cardio fasted and/or while depleted glycogen stores are 2 exceptions.

    Burning LBM via dieting becomes more of a concern at lower bodyfat - 10% and down. I started dieting down at 5'11 195lbs at roughly 15% bf - I had 3 days where I was around 1500 calories, 3 days around 1800, and 1 day (refeed) around 2200. I managed to burn body fat while strength increased on almost every lift, every week.

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