15% Question

[NOSUPERMODEL]

I read everybody on here say you need to be 15% BF to do a cycle. While I don't doubt it all, I would like to know the reasoning? I just got checked today by a trainer at my gym. Checked my chest, quads and my stomach right by the hip. He said I was 18.4%, but he said to add 2% to be safe. So let's just say 20% for arguments sake. Now I am 257lbs. I was thinking in this is where I need some help understanding. If my current diet keeps me at 257 and 20%. And AAS help you put on muscle. Then why not do a cycle, keep the same calories and gain some LBM. Wouldn't the added muscle help burn the fat that I have? It's just a question and I am not arguing the whole 15% rule. I am currently trying to get to 15% now due to that is all that I ever read. But would like some help understanding that rule. Let me just clarify( which I guess I should have put in the beginning) I am on TRT and use an AI. Estrogen was at 30 last time which according to my ranges is very good. It's been as low as 23 and as high as 60. So once again just looking for some clarification.

[gixxerboy1]

few reason. If your are sensitive to estro it will be worse. High bp will be a bigger factor. And most feel if your 20% you dont really have a good diet plan down. So with out a good diet your gains on cycle will be less then optimum.

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Thanks Gixx. Is there anything that would support my thesis of keeping my diet where it is and starting at 20% and gain muscle and that help with losing fat? I have already lost 10 pounds since starting back after the New Year. So I am averaging about 2 pounds a week.

[gixxerboy1]

Your thesis would be correct. You would loose some more. But i wouldnt use that as a solution for weight loss.

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Thanks Gixxer. Wish some of the other Vets would also chime in.

[marcus300]

When you have a high bf % it increases the conversion factor of testosterone to estrogen, this will increase the sides related to high estrogen. You can also be more likely to higher water retention sides and increased BP when you have a higher BF %. Fat cell receptors have more of an affinity to aromatising so if you have more fat cells than you have more of a chance estrogen related sides

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Okay, makes sense. I am going to keep trying to lose some weight before I start, but damn its hard knowing its just sitting there waiting for me to start. I think if I can get down to 245lbs, which would be another 12 pounds I should be right where I need to be. But at the rate I am going, its going to take a while. That would put me right at 15% bodyfat if I got to 245 and maintained my muscle mass.

[gearbox]

we covered the side affects of estro that will happen but to what degree depends on the person. And as gixxer said above many ppl will higher bf % tend to not have a strict diet or a diet in check. basically a diet needed to grow while on aas....its not a magic pill if you are not eating properly you will not grow to what you could while on cycle..and taken certain aas with bad diet you may not grow at all. minus tren
oh i forgot as marcus said of course the weight weight high sodium diet, many with high bf look like balloons

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Thanks guys. I am actually getting some great reasoning behind the whole 15% rule. I will tell you that I did balloon up when I started TRT. Of course the doc didn't start me out on an AI so that was a big reason. I finally got the AI dosage right. I take 1 mg Anastrozole on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I am on 200mgs Test Cyp a week for my TRT dosage.

[BBrian]

Thanks guys. I am actually getting some great reasoning behind the whole 15% rule. I will tell you that I did balloon up when I started TRT. Of course the doc didn't start me out on an AI so that was a big reason. I finally got the AI dosage right. I take 1 mg Anastrozole on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I am on 200mgs Test Cyp a week for my TRT dosage.

Have you had your estrogen levels checked on this dose of Adex? I'm curious as to how this much adex works for you with 800mg test a week. I'm running close to this much test along with 400mg deca and up until yesterday I had been taking 50mg Anadrol ed, but I'm also taking different esters of test. I came to the conclusion that 0.5mg adex eod is what I needed to control bloating and gyno, so again I'm curious as to how well this dose is working for you.

[gearbox]

Have you had your estrogen levels checked on this dose of Adex? I'm curious as to how this much adex works for you with 800mg test a week. I'm running close to this much test along with 400mg deca and up until yesterday I had been taking 50mg Anadrol ed, but I'm also taking different esters of test. I came to the conclusion that 0.5mg adex eod is what I needed to control bloating and gyno, so again I'm curious as to how well this dose is working for you.

swifto recommended 10mg ed for an ai? but you are running .05mg..did you get levels checked bro?

[BBrian]

swifto recommended 10mg ed for an ai? but you are running .05mg..did you get levels checked bro?

10mg ed should be referring to Aromasin, but I take Arimidex

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Have you had your estrogen levels checked on this dose of Adex? I'm curious as to how this much adex works for you with 800mg test a week. I'm running close to this much test along with 400mg deca and up until yesterday I had been taking 50mg Anadrol ed, but I'm also taking different esters of test. I came to the conclusion that 0.5mg adex eod is what I needed to control bloating and gyno, so again I'm curious as to how well this dose is working for you.

I am only on 200mgs of Test per week. I was only taking .5mg 3 times a week and my estrogen levels were still too high. So I talked to the doc and he recommended 1mg dose 3 times a week. Since I started that my estrogen levels have been at 23 and currently at 30. They were as high as in the 60's before I upped the dosage.

[zaggahamma]

Okay, makes sense. I am going to keep trying to lose some weight before I start, but damn its hard knowing its just sitting there waiting for me to start. I think if I can get down to 245lbs, which would be another 12 pounds I should be right where I need to be. But at the rate I am going, its going to take a while. That would put me right at 15% bodyfat if I got to 245 and maintained my muscle mass.

take a while..dude u just said ur losing 2lbs a week..so 6 weeks bro...keep it up and congrats on Wut you've done so far man...tear it up bro

[BBrian]

I am only on 200mgs of Test per week. I was only taking .5mg 3 times a week and my estrogen levels were still too high. So I talked to the doc and he recommended 1mg dose 3 times a week. Since I started that my estrogen levels have been at 23 and currently at 30. They were as high as in the 60's before I upped the dosage.

Yeah I completely screwed up the math for test there, apologies. That dose of Arimidex "seems" too high to me but your estro level reports clearly prove me wrong. Another question, when your estrogen levels were in the 60's and you were taking 0.5mg of adex 3 times a week, did you notice any estro-related sides at all?

[NOSUPERMODEL]

Yeah I completely screwed up the math for test there, apologies. That dose of Arimidex "seems" too high to me but your estro level reports clearly prove me wrong. Another question, when your estrogen levels were in the 60's and you were taking 0.5mg of adex 3 times a week, did you notice any estro-related sides at all?

I was really broken out and retaining water. In fact once I started taking the 3 mgs a week, the very next weekend several people asked me and my wife if I had lost weight. As of right now I hardly ever break out. I might get an occasional one here and there.

[BBrian]

I was really broken out and retaining water. In fact once I started taking the 3 mgs a week, the very next weekend several people asked me and my wife if I had lost weight. As of right now I hardly ever break out. I might get an occasional one here and there.

Great information. Thanks man!