Just about to start HRT tomorrow, 400mg Test C EOW?

[Nunya]

I am a 40yo starting on TRT tomorrow.
Total T is 378ng/dL, Free is 6.2pg/mL.
My GP doc prescribed me 400mg Test C every two weeks, and having to come in for injections.
400mg at a shot seems like a pretty high start. Any risk there, short term? As soon as I can inject myself, I'll split it 1 or 2x per week, but was told I would need to get them in the office for the first 2 months.

[Vettester]

Don't take it wrong, Nunya, but that's just plain and simple a bad protocol. I drove by Magic Mountain earlier this week, and this protocol reminds me of the coaster I saw off the freeway. 400mg is going to peak you upwards of 2,000ng/dl+ within a few days (at least), and you will be closing maybe around 400ng or less by your next shot. Give it another 4 or 5 days and you would be baseline and/or below. Your HPTA will hit full suppression as your protocol evolves, so actually when you drop you will be below your baseline heading towards the 200ng level and eventually lower. The peaks and troughs will be extreme with this protocol to be honest.

To boot, your free test is at 1.64%, which is a low ratio. Hopefully the increased serum will improve that, but you will want follow up labs within 6 weeks.

Coming in for injections?? Sorry Nunya, I just get the feeling this doctor is another one of the poster child docs we talk about here. How bout pinning at home, 1x/wk, 100mg/wk, added HCG, AI if needed to control E2, review of other variables (thyroid, SHBG, DHEA, B12, D3, Adrenals, ... All the other components that provide well being)? 400mg EOW is an indicator that this doctor you're dealing with is out of his element, but maybe I'm missing something

[VTX1800]

Yup...what Vet said. 400?? That would be a wild ride, hope you talk some sense into your doc. Good luck...try and get him to send you home with the cyp so u can pin smaller amounts twice a week.

[kelkel]

Your doctor simply does not understand the half-life of testosterone. He's looking at terminal life. Vettes on point here, especially with his roller coaster reference which is what your hormones will be on. Remember as well with such a large dose you're going to have a large spike in E2 and possible related problems from that.

Crisler made a video showing the appropriate way to self-inject via SQ. Maybe ask your doc to view it. He can then instruct you on how he wants you to inject to cover his ars and make himself feel better.

SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS - THE CUTTING EDGE WITH DR. JOHN CRISLER - YouTube

Also make sure your BW is on target. In the Finding a Doc sticky is a list of BW you should have. Did the doc find a cause for your low T or is he just looking at the total number and saying you need TRT without finding the reason you're low?

I'll close with saying if your doc is set on that protocol then I'm sure HCG and AI's are out of his level of understanding as well. I'd suggest you look into Low Testosterone - $199 All-Included Testosterone Treatment and see what they can offer you.

[jasondd1]

It sounds like the op knows that every 2 weeks isnt the correct protocol and will be able the change to self pinning at home after the 2nd injection. I think what he wants to know is if 400 mg test cyp is detrimental to his health for 2 months, he knows its not optimal and that there will be a crash. If it were me and if i couldn't talk him into a better protocol I might give it a shot for 2 months if I had no other options. Some people live in areas where just finding a doc to prescribe is hard enough even if they are clueless when it comes to correct protocol.

[kelkel]

Correct Jason. The main things were basically addressed. Sides are still up to the individual and their metabolism. We could go into the effects on insulin, cholesterol, hemoglobin, hematacrit and more but our goal is to get him on a proper protocol asap and to not have to deal with the side effects of that type of misguided protocol.

[Low Testosterone]

It sounds like the op knows that every 2 weeks isnt the correct protocol and will be able the change to self pinning at home after the 2nd injection. I think what he wants to know is if 400 mg test cyp is detrimental to his health for 2 months, he knows its not optimal and that there will be a crash. If it were me and if i couldn't talk him into a better protocol I might give it a shot for 2 months if I had no other options. Some people live in areas where just finding a doc to prescribe is hard enough even if they are clueless when it comes to correct protocol.

That use to be very true but anyone in the U.S. if they want and need testosterone treatment can give us a call. Finding a physician and ones that understand testosterone treatment, there's no reason to say you can't anymore.

[Nunya]

It sounds like the op knows that every 2 weeks isnt the correct protocol and will be able the change to self pinning at home after the 2nd injection. I think what he wants to know is if 400 mg test cyp is detrimental to his health for 2 months, he knows its not optimal and that there will be a crash. If it were me and if i couldn't talk him into a better protocol I might give it a shot for 2 months if I had no other options. Some people live in areas where just finding a doc to prescribe is hard enough even if they are clueless when it comes to correct protocol.

You got it exactly, Jason. My hope would be that I can guide her by educating myself enough about it, and keep everything under my insurance. I contacted LowTestosterone.com the day before I had my appointment with my regular doc. I kept my normal appointment to see what she would do. Since she seems to have quite a few of her patients on TRT, I thought I would try this path prior to the $245/month commitment. If I can't make this work, my plan would be to go that route.

[steroid.com 1]

400 mg EOW = Elevated and runaway E2.

Don't do what she wants you to do, you can end up in a worse condition...kid you not.

[Nunya]

Also make sure your BW is on target. In the Finding a Doc sticky is a list of BW you should have. Did the doc find a cause for your low T or is he just looking at the total number and saying you need TRT without finding the reason you're low?

I'll close with saying if your doc is set on that protocol then I'm sure HCG and AI's are out of his level of understanding as well. I'd suggest you look into Low Testosterone - $199 All-Included Testosterone Treatment[/url] and see what they can offer you.

I suspect I've always had relatively low test, and in the last few years it's just dropped below the point that works for me. The other possibility, to me anyway, is a pretty bad concussion I had a few years ago in a motorcycle accident.

She said it wasn't that or other damage to my pituitary based on LH and FSH levels being normal (4.3mIU/mL) and 5.3mIU/mL). I am not sure about this, because wouldn't they be high if it was just primary hypogonadism? And normal/low normal if it is secondary?

[Low Testosterone]

You got it exactly, Jason. My hope would be that I can guide her by educating myself enough about it, and keep everything under my insurance. I contacted LowTestosterone.com the day before I had my appointment with my regular doc. I kept my normal appointment to see what she would do. Since she seems to have quite a few of her patients on TRT, I thought I would try this path prior to the $245/month commitment. If I can't make this work, my plan would be to go that route.

Simply clarifying the total cost. $199 per month plus the $15 prescription fee from the pharmacy. This means most months it will cost you $199, not $245 or some variation of that. The $15 is only paid when you get a prescription. For example, you receive a bottle of testosterone, the pharmacy will bill you for $15. Once your bottle of testosterone runs out, which could take 10-20wks depending on your dose, you will receive another bottle of testosterone and then be charged $15 for that bottle.

[Nunya]

Simply clarifying the total cost. $199 per month plus the $15 prescription fee from the pharmacy. This means most months it will cost you $199, not $245 or some variation of that. The $15 is only paid when you get a prescription. For example, you receive a bottle of testosterone, the pharmacy will bill you for $15. Once your bottle of testosterone runs out, which could take 10-20wks depending on your dose, you will receive another bottle of testosterone and then be charged $15 for that bottle.

Thanks for clarifying. I am so used to a 1 month limit from insurance, I was thinking that way. In fact, right now I am having trouble getting the initial 200mg/ml x 10ml filled because it is a 70 day supply based on the protocol prescribed.

[AnabolicDoc]

Your doctor simply does not understand the half-life of testosterone. He's looking at terminal life. Vettes on point here, especially with his roller coaster reference which is what your hormones will be on. Remember as well with such a large dose you're going to have a large spike in E2 and possible related problems from that.

Crisler made a video showing the appropriate way to self-inject via SQ. Maybe ask your doc to view it. He can then instruct you on how he wants you to inject to cover his ars and make himself feel better.

SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS - THE CUTTING EDGE WITH DR. JOHN CRISLER - YouTube

Also make sure your BW is on target. In the Finding a Doc sticky is a list of BW you should have. Did the doc find a cause for your low T or is he just looking at the total number and saying you need TRT without finding the reason you're low?

I'll close with saying if your doc is set on that protocol then I'm sure HCG and AI's are out of his level of understanding as well. I'd suggest you look into Low Testosterone - $199 All-Included Testosterone Treatment and see what they can offer you.

I 100% agree. In addition, 200mg per week is a very high dose. I love the idea of more frequent subq injections but i find most test preparartions are in sesame oil and you'll need at least a 25 gauge needle. I see some guys here are using smaller needles but not sure how. Also, there was a post by Brian (admin) saying that the test provided by LowT.com is unique and can pass thru a very small needle. Last thing i think most ppl, especially if in the lower range of normal, should at least try out transdermal preparations before injectable. I'm not a big fan of Dr. Crisler but this is something he preaches with very good supporting evidence. Good luck!

[Nunya]

Well, I looked closer at the blood work order I was sent away with to get at my next appointment in 10 weeks, and all it was for was CBC to see if my blood count was okay. No T level, no E2 level, no LH, FSH...This would be after 10 weeks on 400mg EOW.
This seems nuts to me. So, I never went for my first shot and called LowTestosterone.com instead. Got my bloodwork done Saturday, we'll see how it goes.

[steroid.com 1]

Well, I looked closer at the blood work order I was sent away with to get at my next appointment in 10 weeks, and all it was for was CBC to see if my blood count was okay. No T level, no E2 level, no LH, FSH...This would be after 10 weeks on 400mg EOW.
This seems nuts to me. So, I never went for my first shot and called LowTestosterone.com instead. Got my bloodwork done Saturday, we'll see how it goes.

Keep us posted on your BW results and subsequent protocol. You're in good hand with LowT!!!

[dreadnok89]

Im just gonna get on the low-t train.

[kelkel]

Giddyup.

[jasondd1]

Low T seems like the best option out there for the vast majority of people.

[Nunya]

Went to see the LowT doc today. I forgot to get a copy of the blood work, but it was pretty different than the last.
So I've had BW 3 times in the last 3 weeks:
week 1:
Total T: 320
Free T: (not taken)
week 2:
Total T: 370
Free T: 6.2
week 3:
Total T: 400
Free T: 13ish (I don't remember the exact number, will get copies)

I have not done anything in that time that I know of that would affect my levels.
How much variation is normal from week to week? By this, I'm back into a normal range.
I have fairly normal LH and FSH (don't remember the numbers, but mid range). We're trying HCG only for 6 weeks and retest. He would have given me test if I wanted, but the change from week to week is making me question if I need it.
Thanks for any input.

[jasondd1]

It sounds lie a normal range variation to me.

[ZenFitness]

From what I understand natural T levels fluctuate being highest in the morning and decrease all day (assuming a night sleep schedule). The variation could be a timing of your blood draws.