Just got my first script for Test. Cyp.

[Fred40]

Hello all....first time poster but I've been doing a lot of research here.

Just got my first prescription for testosterone cypionate from my GP.

I'm 44 and my total T was 398 (not low enough to get covered by my insurance) and my Free T was 8.8, off the chart for a 21-29 year old but the low end of normal for someone my age

Looks like I have a decent doctor. I was afraid he would be way to conservative but turns out he is on T himself and is a big proponent. He is going to allow me to self inject (after they show me once) and has already written the script for a 10ml vial with 5 refills. My local Pharm sells it for $80.

Starting dosage is 200mg/ml every 2 weeks or 100mg/ml a week....my choice. I plan on just doing the 100ml a week based upon what I've read here.

He will then check my levels in 3 months and based on the numbers......and more importantly - "How I Feel", will adjust the dosage.

We will be focusing on the Free T more than the total T.

Here's to (hopefully) feeling younger

[Titleesq]

Hey Fred, welcome aboard and good luck!!! Any plans for an AI or some HCG? Did the Dr. discuss this with you at all? Post up all your numbers and you will be sure to get some real good feedback around here. Keep us all updated on your progress.

[Fred40]

Not sure I'm really to worried about HCG. I had a vasectomy about 4-5 years ago so it comes down to the question of shrinkage and whether or not my spouse or I care about it. Not sure we really do.

AI will most likely enter the picture in the near future but I'm going to let the numbers tell the story.

[zaggahamma]

you did well sir

good luck

care to share any stats and goals with your new found fountain of youth

[kelkel]

Care about the shrinkage. Spouses don't always last in our society and you don't want to be pulling out extra small ones one day saying really, they're supposed to be that small. No, don't think so. Just my opinion from one who's been there. HCG will do far more than cosmetics too.

[Fred40]

you did well sir

good luck

care to share any stats and goals with your new found fountain of youth

Early goals......lose about 25lbs, gain some muscle and get some more action with the wifey. Feel more focused at work and just generally have more energy.

I lifted a fair amount in college but I am a small dude. 5' 9" but small boned. I weighed in at 136lbs starting college and came out at 150-155 all added muscle......but that was a lifetime ago. I've never taken any supplements of any kind. I have since lifted sporadically and currently do it about 2x a week. I currently weigh about 180lbs......all added fat.

I've found it VERY difficult to drum up much motivation to do anything over the last few years.......hoping that will soon change.

Care about the shrinkage. Spouses don't always last in our society and you don't want to be pulling out extra small ones one day saying really, they're supposed to be that small. No, don't think so. Just my opinion from one who's been there. HCG will do far more than cosmetics too.

Good point I guess. Been married for 18 years and overall we are doing good (hopefully about to be even better). Don't foresee any major issues with us but then again I'm no psychic. Is there a point were the shrinkage can become permanent? Or can I always hop on HCG down the road should I choose to do so?

[zaggahamma]

[QUOTE=Fred40;5716654]Early goals......lose about 25lbs, gain some muscle and get some more action with the wifey. Feel more focused at work and just generally have more energy.

I lifted a fair amount in college but I am a small dude. 5' 9" but small boned. I weighed in at 136lbs starting college and came out at 150-155 all added muscle......but that was a lifetime ago. I've never taken any supplements of any kind. I have since lifted sporadically and currently do it about 2x a week. I currently weigh about 180lbs......all added fat.

I've found it VERY difficult to drum up much motivation to do anything over the last few years.......hoping that will soon change.


i think it will bro and not far off goals

wish u the best

keep us posted please (in this thread if you could)

[Fred40]

Got my 6 week results:

E2 - 50 (high) Range 10-40 - I think we all saw this one coming.

Total T - 963 Range 240-950

Free T - 28.9 Range 9-30

PSA - 1.62 - Was 1.75 six weeks ago so I'm not worried about that but will of course keep an eye on it.


So after these results what does my GP say --- "cut your dose in half" WTF???

Besides needing some Arimidex I think my numbers look GREAT. I certainly feel better than before TRT.

Now I got the blood taken on Friday after a Monday injection. I'm assuming that these are PEAK numbers....yes? I certainly feel like my T peaks on Thursday & Friday. So I'm assuming that my T numbers are actually a little lower the rest of the week.

I was hoping I wouldn't be one of those who had to go down this road, guess I shouldn't be surprised given his lack of TRT knowledge.

[steroid.com 1]

Got my 6 week results:

E2 - 50 (high) Range 10-40 - I think we all saw this one coming.
E2 Sensitivity Panel? Indeed and why you had the sides you had. Needs to come down by half as it's converting the Test you are injecting.

Total T - 963 Range 240-950
SWEET! But remember, Bio Available and/or Percent Free are more important at this juncture.

Free T - 28.9 Range 9-30
Now we're talking Fred!!!

PSA - 1.62 - Was 1.75 six weeks ago so I'm not worried about that but will of course keep an eye on it.
Ok

So after these results what does my GP say --- "cut your dose in half" WTF???
Exactly, and what was his medical reasoning for that suggestion??? Keep in mind, if he puts you on an AI that will supress the E2 conversion via aromatization so your Test levels will increase but you would reduce on after the next round of BW if that's the case.

Besides needing some Arimidex I think my numbers look GREAT. I certainly feel better than before TRT.
These do look good and good for you Fred! Do you have SHBG, Albumin, Progesterone, Cortisol...?

Now I got the blood taken on Friday after a Monday injection. I'm assuming that these are PEAK numbers....yes?
Correct.

I certainly feel like my T peaks on Thursday & Friday. So I'm assuming that my T numbers are actually a little lower the rest of the week.
Depending upon how you metabolize but reasonable assumption.

I was hoping I wouldn't be one of those who had to go down this road, guess I shouldn't be surprised given his lack of TRT knowledge.

You need to get your E2 down. Did you explain the need for an AI to do that? Are you going to self medicate the AI?



.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

The benefit of HCG is not just to combat shrinkage. LH stimulates other hormone production besides Test. W/O LH you will lack these hormones. HCG mimics LH.

[Fred40]

Picked up my test cyp today and it was only $71 so I was happy about that. Picked up some 22 gauge and 25 gauge needles. I figure I'll draw with the 22's and then switch to the 25's. I've heard of some people using 27 and even 29. I'll see how it goes. I plan on injecting into my quads.

Back when I weighed 155 I could bench 260. Don't have any set strength goals right now. Just want to look and feel better than I have. I'm already back on the treadmill so I'll let you know how it goes once the testosterone stats to do it's thing.

One thing......my Dr is great about the T and I think hell will let me get to where I want to be (upper 1/3rd of 20-29 year old levels).....but he is not really up on the HCG and AI's. I'm a little worried about that. How do you educate your own Dr. and not have it come across that way?

Are there other (do it myself) options for AI's? I've read that white mushrooms can have a significant AI effect......but how much and how often? What about something like 6-oxo?

[Sicko]

Welcome...glad to hear your GP took care of that for you. I will be going to GP after my next blood results in hope that She will prescribe my trt for me to get away from high prices of clinic.

[Fred40]

So I meet the nurse today.....I had to agree to let them show me how before they would let me self inject.

I actually ended up doing it myself, just with her guidance. I injected with a 1" 25 gauge into my quad and there was really no pain at all. I've had mosquito bites that were worse.

I shot 200ml today and will switch to 100ml EW starting next week. I brought up estrogen with the nurse today (My GP seems a little clueless on that end) and she said she would mention it to him. I want to make sure my E2 levels get checked with my next blood test.

Now I know needles get tossed every time but do you toss the syringe every time as well?

[zaggahamma]

So I meet the nurse today.....I had to agree to let them show me how before they would let me self inject.

I actually ended up doing it myself, just with her guidance. I injected with a 1" 25 gauge into my quad and there was really no pain at all. I've had mosquito bites that were worse.

I shot 200ml today and will switch to 100ml EW starting next week. I brought up estrogen with the nurse today (My GP seems a little clueless on that end) and she said she would mention it to him. I want to make sure my E2 levels get checked with my next blood test.

Now I know needles get tossed every time but do you toss the syringe every time as well?

....yup

[GotNoBlueMilk]

But don't toss the syringe in the same container you use to dispose of your needles. Seems obvious, because it fills up the needle container so fast, but those disposal units in public restrooms are often full of syringes, and no room for any more needles.

[flatscat]

Welcome bro. You are hopefully on your way to the new you. If I could suggest one thing, it would be to get your next bw in about 5 weeks and not 12. It is important to closely monitor your levels when you first start if you can.

Good luck!

[Fred40]

Welcome bro. You are hopefully on your way to the new you. If I could suggest one thing, it would be to get your next bw in about 5 weeks and not 12. It is important to closely monitor your levels when you first start if you can.

Good luck!

Thanks.....I have picked up on that here. My plan is to have them checked again at the six week mark even though my GP said three months.

[Fred40]

When (if) I start taking an AI how often should I get my levels checked? I really want to get into that sweet spot with my T & E levels and hopefully not have to mess with the dosages for long time.

[steroid.com 1]

Welcome Fred and to Test for Life!

I would suggest you do some reading and get yourself up to speed on complete TRT protocols and what you need and what you need tested. There is a great wealth of information on the Internet. Dr. John Crilser, a leading TRT specialist, has a number of published papers on his website allthingsmale.com/publications.html. Here you will find why you NEED HCG. You can print this and fax it to your Doc. You will also find out what blood panels you need tested when on Test. There are very specific panels that must be monitored for your health and well-being. You need to have your Estradiol (E2) tested in about 5 weeks in your protocol. Make sure your Doc orders a "sensitive" assay it's a must (read Crisler on this subject). Keep an eye on any neg sides do to high E2 now that your on Test...very important.

You NEED HCG for all the reasons stated here as your testes produce the precursor hormone Pregnenolone which converts to DHEA which converts down stream to all your other hormones. You need your testes to function!

Go to a good bookstore and buy Testosterone for Life by Dr. Abraham Morgentaler; you won't put it down.

Read and manage your protocol and your health; a Doc like yours prescribing test but not understanding impact on E2 and the need for HCG can present a problem.

Good luck my friend!

[Fred40]

Welcome Fred and to Test for Life!



Go to a good bookstore and buy Testosterone for Life by Dr. Abraham Morgentaler; you won't put it down.

Read and manage your protocol and your health; a Doc like yours prescribing test but not understanding impact on E2 and the need for HCG can present a problem.

Good luck my friend!

I just picked up that book......thanks.

[Fred40]

Thanks for the info.

I like my GP and he is a great guy; he's just not up to speed on everything TRT (even though he himself is on it). I will try and get him up to speed. He seems very willing to work with me on this. He mentioned that "there is no need to check Estrogen" but, he is willing to add it to my next test. This tells me that he's not really familiar with the "sensitive assay" as it applies to male estrogen levels. Hopefully I can get him up to speed. If all else fails I am only about a 2hr drive from Dr. Crisler's office

[steroid.com 1]

Thanks for the info.

I like my GP and he is a great guy; he's just not up to speed on everything TRT (even though he himself is on it). I will try and get him up to speed. He seems very willing to work with me on this. He mentioned that "there is no need to check Estrogen" but, he is willing to add it to my next test. This tells me that he's not really familiar with the "sensitive assay" as it applies to male estrogen levels. Hopefully I can get him up to speed. If all else fails I am only about a 2hr drive from Dr. Crisler's office

Crisler will consult with your MD for a small fee. This might be a nice alternative and a great learning experience for your Doc. I know my Doc does it all the time for GP's not in the know!

[Fred40]

Crisler will consult with your MD for a small fee. This might be a nice alternative and a great learning experience for your Doc. I know my Doc does it all the time for GP's not in the know!

Hmmm, that might be even better; thanks.

[Fred40]

So if I'm injecting on Monday morning what it the best day (when the time comes) to get my levels checked?

Friday afternoon?

[steroid.com 1]

So if I'm injecting on Monday morning what it the best day (when the time comes) to get my levels checked?

Friday afternoon?

Yes.

[bass]

welcome Fred! i can't add anything to the excellent responses you got so far. but I'll tell you after 20 weeks or so being on TRT i started hCG and I'll never stop, it really makes a different as to how you feel. as for the shrinkage, believe me Fred, i too said who cares, but when my balls and sack disappeared it did not feel good at all, so its also for psychological reason as well. also not sure if your wife likes touching your sack during sex, if so that would be a major setback for your wife. trust me! best of luck to you with your new life!

[Fred40]

Anyway, I'm seeing signs of high E2 after only two shots? (200mg week 1 and 100mg week 2)

I'm major bloated. Put on about 6 lbs in a week and a half and I've been exercising a lot more?

Had a sensitive nip the other day but it has gone away. looks like I'm carrying some of that extra fluid in my moobs.

Should I go get my levels checked early or just wait for the 6 week blood tests?

I started TRT at 5'9" and 180lbs. My goal is to get down to 155 - 160lbs. Been working out a lot more lately (weights and treadmill) and now I'm at 186.

[steroid.com 1]

E2 response is expected. What were your baseline E2 levels before starting your protocol?

You can call your Doc and tell him your already experiencing symptoms of high E2 levels. The bigger issue with higher E2 levels is that it's converting Test through aromatization into E2 meaning the Test you are injecting is not only NOT doing what you want it to do; it's converted into Estradiol which can do a lot of things you don't want it to do.

If it were me I'd insist on an AI right away...but that's just me. You can wait a few more weeks but your E2 levels are not likely going to come down without pharmacological help.

[flatscat]

Fred,

It is not uncommon (at least for me it wasnt) to feel all kinds of sensations after you start trt. I remember my nips were WAY sensitive and I bloated about the same time as you. But, I had my initial E2 numbers and they were not out of range, but high end. I started off with an AI at the same time as the t. Your call on the B/W, but imo, everyone should at least know where their starting E2 number is before if not pdq after they start. Remember, everyone reacts differently and in different time frames as their body responds to the added t. I felt it pretty quick, but did not level out as far as how I felt until about month five and it has been almost all great since. Hang in there and get to know your body.

Flats

[Fred40]

Thanks guys.

No baseline E2 levels were done. My Total T and free T were low but not quite low enough to get covered by my insurance. My GP said he would be happy to add Estrogen to my next blood work but does not understand why I want it checked.

What I'm hoping will happen is that if my blood tests show an elevated E2 he will then see the light and write me a script for Arimidex which gets covered by my insurance.

Plan B (assuming my E2 does come back high) is to put myself on LiquiDex.

I'm hoping to slowly (but not too slowly) get my Dr. up to speed on all of this. I'll probably self medicate if it comes to that. Going to see Dr. Crisler is an option for me but nothing would be covered if I go see him anyway. Looks like HCG and AI's are not too hard to find without a script and my GP will continue to write the Test Cyp scripts and provide blood tests as needed.

Sounds like I should bump up the blood work and hopefully get him to write an AI script.......wish me luck.

[steroid.com 1]

If he didn't even know to check E2 at baseline what makes you think he's going to write you a script for an AI? I wouldn't count on it. Your guy doesn't know what he's doing from what I've read. You need better and informed care to get well.

[Fred40]

I think that maybe when he see's elevated E2 levels he might actually want to correct it. I could be wrong.

Getting a good AI is not to difficult but I'm more concerned with finding a good source of high quality HCG (If my Dr. won't help with these). Anybody have one....or two?

He'll still provide the blood tests.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Sources are not allowed in the forum, so go get 50 posts so someone can IM you with an answer to your request.

[Fred40]

50? I thought is was 25.

11 more to go

[Fred40]

So anyone have any good sources of high quality HCG? (Just PM me)

Thank you.

[Fred40]

Really....nothing?

So I'm working out a lot more now.

Before I was just jamming some basic lifting into a single workout. Bench press, Lat pulldowns, Bicep Curls, Triceps and some crunches/weighted sit ups. Pretty much been ignoring my legs and was doing minor sporadic cadio.

That needs to change. Back in my college days I would split it up like this:

Chest / Triceps Including flat bench, incline bench, dumbbell flies, tricep pulldowns, behind the neck presses and with weight on my thighs behind the back presses.(abs - crunches)

Back / Biceps. Including Lat pulldowns with varying width grip, Rows (pulley & dumbell) Bicep curls with a curl bar (standing) and dumbbell concentration curls (sitting) (abs - weighted with feet anchored off the side of the bench)

Legs / Delts. Including Squats, leg curls and calve work, Lateral raises, and heavy barbell shoulder shrugs (abs - crunches)

Rest
Repeat

My thinking was since bench presses already hits your triceps might as well blast them on the same day......same with the back and biceps.

Should I get back into that same routine? It's been probably 20 years since I ran it. (yes I know to build up gradually)

I will also be doing cadio at least 3x a week minimum.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think almost all get their HCG by prescription. The regulars all use a doc/clinic.

[Fred40]

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think almost all get their HCG by prescription. The regulars all use a doc/clinic.

If that is the only safe way to get quality HCG then that is what I will do.

[zaggahamma]

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think almost all get their HCG by prescription. The regulars all use a doc/clinic.

really?

[subnet]

I know my previous Dr. didn't 'believe' in HCG so I had to find it myself. My current Dr. doesn't really have a clue so I just get prescription Test and Arimidex (generic) from him. My AA clinic would love to sell me HCG, but their prices are much higher than I've found online so I go that route.