40+ year old guy starting seriously on anabolic Steriods cycles.

[gymmer69]

Hi guys! 2 Asian guys here thinking of starting off seriously on steriod cycles.

age: 42, 49
weight: 68 kg, 77 kg
height: both of us are 1.73 metres high
Body fat:12 %, 17%
We have been training in the gym for 15 years and have not gain much weight and muscle mass. Just managed to look toned and gain just a bit of muscle mass.

We are currently on this :

dbol - 25mg per day for a month
test P - 400 mg per month
rest for one month and start all over again.
When we were on a break, we started to feel lathargic, had sleepness nights and experience loss of sex drive. Sounds like we are low on test?

Had done this for 8 cycles and just managed to only gain about 3 kg.
My partner also gained about 3 kg but had difficulty losing fats on his guts.

We are now thinking about doing this :
Test P 250 mg every week for eight weeks with 25mg dbol for week 1 to 6. (heard that Test P has lesser water retention)
Followed by 2 weeks of Nolvadex ( week 1 - 40 mg every day, week 2 - 40 mg every day)

Got this idea from Ronnie Rowland's post and tweak it a bit. I've seen threads that 250 mg is a bit too low to start with but I thought I would start out small to see how our body reacts.
My goal is not to become too huge and would like to reach a weight of about 75 kg.
My Partner's goal is to reduce overall body fat to about 11% and to achieve a more leaner physique.

Any comments on this would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

[itsjayman02]

This maybe not want to hear but both your problems seem to stem from poor diets post in the nutrition section for advice!!

You both want different things but cycle the same !!

I don't think either of you are ready just yet so read up on steroid profiles and gain some knowledge of how compounds work and visit the nutritional board!!

[stpete]

Well, your first 8 cycles were a failure due to no research whatsoever. Sounds like you guys finally started doing some as your heading in the right direction. I'm not so sure that you couldn't get where you want to be w/a good diet and solid training. but since you're asking...

First, put down the d-bol. Especially if you're concerned w/bloat.

Second, pin the prop EOD at least. Your mgs is on low side but if you pin correctly you will see slight gains.

And run that PCT for 4 weeks. Week 3-4 @ 20mgs.

[songdog]

Yes it helps if you know wat your doing.and at your age I wouldve thought you wouldve known better.Read the stickys bro we have a ton of info here.Always educate before you medicate.

[Simon1972]

8 cycles and you seek help now? i thought asians were supposed to be smart (no offence intended- my girls asian- which makes my son half asian)
questions did you really inject 400 mg in one month or did you mean each week?

scrub what you think you know and start fresh.

test e -400mg week-10-12 weeks
dbol 25 mg ED 4 weeks
nolva 20mg ED for 4 weeks plus as PCT

dont worry bout water bloat- its temporary
if you want to lose weight dont eat- if you want to gain- eat

nobody got big by exercising and breathing in air- you must eat - if you struggle to eat, force yourself

[John Andrew]

Where are you? Most of the guys I see here train so light and so little they waste their time. I have lived here 5 years and seen a few who are serious. You must look at the nutrition also as most Asians do not have enough protein in the diet! I am not trying to be negative but I see this every day.

Not one member in my gym can lift 30% of my weights! Yet we have a young girl get silver at the Olympics! Tell us a lot more please. Regards, John

[gymmer69]

Yes it helps if you know wat your doing.and at your age I wouldve thought you wouldve known better.Read the stickys bro we have a ton of info here.Always educate before you medicate.

Yes I had done my homework & done lots of reading and the more I read, the more confused I get. Like you said: There are TONS of information here. So many people has something different to say. SO who to follow?
Yes I know nutrition & proper training plays an important part in this. So we are starting out correctly from this point on, IF we could get some advice from pros.
I have to start somewhere, right?

[gymmer69]

SIMON1972:
Sorry about this mess, To make matters more clear, 400 mg of test e were given to us by our doctor as hormone replacement therapy as our test levels are low.
And we had this injection monthly.
dbol 25mg ED for 4 weeks are advise from friends who had done this before.
Yes I agree that we had not eaten enough & we know that we had gone wrong somewhere that's why I had decided to join this forum. BUT THERE TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVING DIFFERENT ADVISE.
What/who to follow? I have to start some where right?

You were saying:
400mg of test e per week for 10 to 12 weeks
dbol 25 mg ED 4 weeks
nolva 20mg ED for 4 weeks plus as PCT

Will this make me freakishly muscular?

[gymmer69]

Hey thanks stpete for your reply.
To make sure I got you correctly, I should do test E like this?
MON 250 mg
WED 250mg
FRI 250 mg
SUN 250 mg
TOTAL : 1000 mg

Followed by PCT
week 1 :40 mg everyday
week 2 :40 mg everyday
week 3 :20 mg everyday
week 4 :20 mg everyday

[gymmer69]

Where are you? Most of the guys I see here train so light and so little they waste their time. I have lived here 5 years and seen a few who are serious. You must look at the nutrition also as most Asians do not have enough protein in the diet! I am not trying to be negative but I see this every day.

Not one member in my gym can lift 30% of my weights! Yet we have a young girl get silver at the Olympics! Tell us a lot more please. Regards, John

I am 2 hours flight away from Bangkok You know, little red dot on the map??
At our gym, I see lots of people training without correct form & weight (e.g. I can bench press more than 30% of my weight). After so many years in the gym, I had begin to realise that and had begin training properly now for the last 3 years.
Now is to get my nutrition on the right track & with the help of anabolics, I hope I can achieve more.
To summarize, I do 4-5 sets of exercise per body part and I hit each body part once a week. Each set varies from 10-12 reps.
For the one week, I train 2 days ON, followed by one day off, followed by 3 days ON & then one day OFF.
I want to start off simple on the steroids, like what they say in www.steriods.com, steriods for beginners.
I would not want to achieve something freakishly muscular though, but just to reach my goal of 75 kg of body weight with lean muscle mass.
By the way, are you in Krungthep? I am keen in getting my gear from there as I will be travelling there very soon. Any info on where I can get the genuine stuff will be very much appreciated.

[stpete]

Hey thanks stpete for your reply.
To make sure I got you correctly, I should do test E like this?
MON 250 mg
WED 250mg
FRI 250 mg
SUN 250 mg
TOTAL : 1000 mg

Followed by PCT
week 1 :40 mg everyday
week 2 :40 mg everyday
week 3 :20 mg everyday
week 4 :20 mg everyday

No, you only referenced test prop. That is why i told you best to pin EOD as it's a short ester. Some people, myself included sometimes, pin it ED. And i would think that since you said you wanted a fairly low dose, and your last failed experiments, 75-100mgs EOD would be sufficient for you. 3 days after last pin is when you should start PCT.

Take some time and read the Educational Threads, Stickies and hit the PCT Forum and Steroid Profiles so you will have a better idea of what you're putting in your body. It's a relatively safe cycle but if your not pinning correctly, it's not working correctly.

Also, Diet plays the biggest role. That needs to be evaluated as well and i suggest you start in Nutrition Forum.

I suggest you do all of those before embarking on next cycle.

Good Luck

[RoadToHuge]

It sounds like there are a few things you need to change, but you are here and that means you have the tools now. First is get a handle on protein intake. A gram of protein per pound of weight should be a decent start. Drink a protein shake within 30 minutes after you workouy and before bed. I would consider Test E (testostorone ethanate) at 500 mg a week. Inject twice a week. This is a good starting point. when not on cycle, drop down to your normal TRT dose. I perfer aromasin for my aromatase inhibitor (AI) but you need to discover how estrogen prone you are. Good luck and post up alot. You should lift as heavy as you can generally and shoot for 5 reps untill you cannot do anothr rep. You should be lifting ( bench press)1.5 times your body weight fairly easily with a little hard work. After that it becomes a little more incremental, but slowly work your way up. Good luck and welcome!

[gonzo6183]

At 5'8 147lb and 11% bf (your estimate, its probably higher)
and 5'8 170lb 17% bf (again mor than likely higher)

and been cycling for 16months gaining 3kg

NO ONE SHOULD BE GIVING YOU CYCLE ADVICE< YOU ARE NO WHERE NEAR READY...


You guys both need to learn how to eat and probably train, hit up the diet section and training forum.

If you get bloodwork and genuinly have low T then maybe TRT is an option but NOT cycling.

I would suggest a FULL PCT of nolva and clomid for 4 weeks wait a few more weeks then get your blood done.

Just to say again NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE GIVING CYCLE ADVICE TO THESE GUYS, just becasue they are old enough does NOT mean they are ready, we have 19yr olds rock up here all the time in much better condition with much more knowledge and no one will give them advice, why is this any different, if someone is not ready they should not be given cycle advice

[Metalject]

One month cycles aren't going to do a lot for you. If you're going to see some changes, the plan's have to be longer.

Both of you could easily benefit from a testosterone only cycle. Say testosterone cypionate at 400mg/wk every week for 12 weeks. At that point, you could begin a PCT plan using 4 weeks of Nolvadex and remaining off cycle for a little while after the PCT. However, Due to your age, there's a good chance both of you would benefit from staying on testosterone permanently. If this is the case, you'd want to stay on 100-200mg/wk of testosterone cypionate until your next cycle began.

Anavar could also be added to your plan at say 50mg per day. This will help the one of you lean out a little more and improve the physique of both of you. You can continue to use Dbol, however, water retention will be easier to control with Anavar. It's nowhere near as strong as Dbol but base on what you've been saying I think both of you might enjoy Anavar a little more.

As everyone said, you more than likely need to look at your diets if you want to make some good changes to your physique.

[gymmer69]

No, you only referenced test prop. That is why i told you best to pin EOD as it's a short ester. Some people, myself included sometimes, pin it ED. And i would think that since you said you wanted a fairly low dose, and your last failed experiments, 75-100mgs EOD would be sufficient for you. 3 days after last pin is when you should start PCT.

Take some time and read the Educational Threads, Stickies and hit the PCT Forum and Steroid Profiles so you will have a better idea of what you're putting in your body. It's a relatively safe cycle but if your not pinning correctly, it's not working correctly.

Also, Diet plays the biggest role. That needs to be evaluated as well and i suggest you start in Nutrition Forum.

I suggest you do all of those before embarking on next cycle.

Good Luck

Thanks for your kind patience and info. Will definitely check out the nutrition section, PCT & other threads again.

[gymmer69]

At 5'8 147lb and 11% bf (your estimate, its probably higher)
and 5'8 170lb 17% bf (again mor than likely higher)

and been cycling for 16months gaining 3kg

NO ONE SHOULD BE GIVING YOU CYCLE ADVICE< YOU ARE NO WHERE NEAR READY...


You guys both need to learn how to eat and probably train, hit up the diet section and training forum.

If you get bloodwork and genuinly have low T then maybe TRT is an option but NOT cycling.

I would suggest a FULL PCT of nolva and clomid for 4 weeks wait a few more weeks then get your blood done.

Just to say again NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE GIVING CYCLE ADVICE TO THESE GUYS, just becasue they are old enough does NOT mean they are ready, we have 19yr olds rock up here all the time in much better condition with much more knowledge and no one will give them advice, why is this any different, if someone is not ready they should not be given cycle advice

Thanks for your advice

[gymmer69]

At 5'8 147lb and 11% bf (your estimate, its probably higher)
and 5'8 170lb 17% bf (again mor than likely higher)

and been cycling for 16months gaining 3kg

NO ONE SHOULD BE GIVING YOU CYCLE ADVICE< YOU ARE NO WHERE NEAR READY...


You guys both need to learn how to eat and probably train, hit up the diet section and training forum.

If you get bloodwork and genuinly have low T then maybe TRT is an option but NOT cycling.

I would suggest a FULL PCT of nolva and clomid for 4 weeks wait a few more weeks then get your blood done.

Just to say again NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE GIVING CYCLE ADVICE TO THESE GUYS, just becasue they are old enough does NOT mean they are ready, we have 19yr olds rock up here all the time in much better condition with much more knowledge and no one will give them advice, why is this any different, if someone is not ready they should not be given cycle advice

Thanks for your advice

[decaDump]

"Hi, guys. 2 Asian guys here..."

I thought this was the beginning of a joke here.

[stpete]

At 5'8 147lb and 11% bf (your estimate, its probably higher)
and 5'8 170lb 17% bf (again mor than likely higher)

and been cycling for 16months gaining 3kg

NO ONE SHOULD BE GIVING YOU CYCLE ADVICE< YOU ARE NO WHERE NEAR READY...


You guys both need to learn how to eat and probably train, hit up the diet section and training forum.

If you get bloodwork and genuinly have low T then maybe TRT is an option but NOT cycling.

I would suggest a FULL PCT of nolva and clomid for 4 weeks wait a few more weeks then get your blood done.

Just to say again NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE GIVING CYCLE ADVICE TO THESE GUYS, just becasue they are old enough does NOT mean they are ready, we have 19yr olds rock up here all the time in much better condition with much more knowledge and no one will give them advice, why is this any different, if someone is not ready they should not be given cycle advice

All of us who gave solid advice expressed the importance of a good diet and training. And there's a huge difference why we steer 19 year old's in a different direction the men in their mid to late 40's. Your 19 year old statement really surprises me. And not to mention, this IS a Steroid Board and we are here to help people regardless of their age. We have to handle them on a one to one basis.

[gonzo6183]

Yeah I respect what you are saying but the only advice these guys (like most) are taking from this is what they want to hear and thats what cycle to do. So often guys get hounded for considering a cycle who are in much better condition than these guys but younger and its all diet diet diet, which I completely agree with. BUT that should not mean if your age is right then thats ok you can be in bad shape and we will give you cycle advice. Remember people take in the info that they want to hear and we are all aware of this.

But put it this way 2 guys comin in here asking for cycle advice, that have been using for 16 months and gained three kg.

They give the following stats:

5'8 147lb 11%bf (dont forget this 11%bf is likely very wrong and much higher) Actually on that, who is in the pic? that looks around 18% but im assuming thats the guys doing the writting and claiming 11%. So lets change stats to 5'8 147lb 18%bf (correct em if im wrong mate and ill adjust)

5'8 170lb 18% bf (now if the first guy is the one in the pic and the second holds 50% more bf) stats are more likely 5'8 170lb 23-25%bf

Who here would seriously give these guys cycle advice or a clear cut YOU NEED TO LEARN TO EAT AND EAT CLEAN???

No offence to the OP im just very surprised that due to your age everyone is more than willing to give you advice on what drugs to use when clearly IMO you are not ready to use any (apart from maybe TRT) you need to learn to diet, cardio and probably could learn a lot more about training.

JMO

[stpete]

With younger guys mostly it's about not damaging their HPTA. and at their ages, it's so much easier for them to gain w/proper diet and training. Hell, i'd love to be in those again. haha..But unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I hear what you're saying and i respect it. But IMO if these guys don't want to listen to the diet suggestions that we've all given them, why not tell them the best way to run a correct cycle? I don't want to see them continue to do more harm than good. And in all likelihood, that's what they'd do.
We agree to disagree and that's fine.

But yes, it's all for not without proper diet and training.

[gymmer69]

"Hi, guys. 2 Asian guys here..."

I thought this was the beginning of a joke here.

What do you mean by that?

[gymmer69]

Hey gonza 6183


You can't tell a person's BF by looking at pictures dude and say that I am 18% BF.
FOr your info, my BF is 11%. I had tried many online BF calculators and all gave me 11% (One also gave 9.5% BF). I had also tried US army BF calculator and it gave me 12%.
And for your info, we always eat clean. No fried stuff and oily stuff. No carbonated drinks. and I agree with stpete that younger guys gain much easier with proper diet and training. And guys like us need to train much harder and have a much better diet to achieve the same gains that younger guys can achieve.

[Bevsta123]

Your cycle is a mess and confusing the fk out of me just to look at. Long story short your first PROPPER cycle should look something like this

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg/week (pinning 250mg every 3.5 days, eg 250mg Monday morning then 250mg Thursday night)
(this is a AI) Week 1-12 Aromasin (Exemestane) 10mg/ED on cycle incase of estrogenic sides.

then PCT

[gonzo6183]

Hey gonza 6183


You can't tell a person's BF by looking at pictures dude and say that I am 18% BF.
FOr your info, my BF is 11%. I had tried many online BF calculators and all gave me 11% (One also gave 9.5% BF). I had also tried US army BF calculator and it gave me 12%.
And for your info, we always eat clean. No fried stuff and oily stuff. No carbonated drinks. and I agree with stpete that younger guys gain much easier with proper diet and training. And guys like us need to train much harder and have a much better diet to achieve the same gains that younger guys can achieve.

Can I just ask is that you in the pic?

I did not mean to be offensive, I just believe that it is a really bad idea for you guys to be cycling in that condition, if you cant grow with diet then you wont get anywhere cycling. Thats my opinion and no one has to agree with it but thats what we are here for, to share opinions.

Cheers

[gymmer69]

Can I just ask is that you in the pic?

I did not mean to be offensive, I just believe that it is a really bad idea for you guys to be cycling in that condition, if you cant grow with diet then you wont get anywhere cycling. Thats my opinion and no one has to agree with it but thats what we are here for, to share opinions.

Cheers

Hi Gonzo, That's me in the pic (latest avatar pic loaded today).
Thanks for your advise. We will definitely look into our diets. Didn't mean to sound offensive and angry Just wanna let you know the truth about my body stats.
I even have friends asking me about steriod injections and their physique, training experience and diet is even worse than ours and of course I told them that they should look at their diet and training first.
Cheers