t3 usage - self diagnosis of hypothyroidism, have t3 on hand

[BBJT200]

Some background on myself:
Training with weights since 2009, all of 2012 has been serious lifting (5-6 lifting sessions/wk with appropriate muscle splits, 5+ sessions of cardio each week). When I consume roughly 1500cal/day and exercise like I just mentioned, my weight will stay stagnant. If I up the calories, I gain muscle and fat like you wouldn't believe. I've actually been asked if I'm on steroids because my appearance changes so rapidly.

I went through a period of bullimia, suicidal depression, etc., stemming from the inability to actually get the body I want. It's not that I'm not putting in the effort or not eating right, it's that it's physically impossible with what I've been given by God.

I've been playing around with the idea of t3 and just doing my own therapy, as I don't have health insurance, nor the funds to spend thousands of dollars at an endocrinologist's office. I'm looking for information from people who REALLY know what they're talking about-- this is not the place for bro science or examples of "i heard this from a bunch of other guys, so it must be true. i'll just pass it along."

If anyone can give me directions to good resources of information, this is something I'd like to look into.

The biggest clue for me is that I have such bad fatigue all the time, insomnia, memory lapses, and I'm still gaining muscle mass / fat on a 2000-2500calorie diet. Can anyone shed some light on the subject for me?

[BBJT200]

Bump...any thoughts welcome.

Please don't simply say "go see a doctor" because thyroid treatment has been ****ed over by there not being much required curriculum on the endocrine system by physicians. Most will test your TSH, and if it's normal, they will say you have no problem. However, thyroid function is not actually determined by TSH levels, it's by the amount of free t3 in the bloodstream, and how much of it is actually available to be used by the body.

Even if you make it that far with a doctor, they'll prescribe you t4 only (which is TSH...) so you're paying out the ass and literally getting no help. "It's all in your head," they'll tell you....as you're gaining weight eating nothing but lettuce.

[gixxerboy1]

you cant self diagnose or trat that. Even if you do have a thyroid issue you would have no idea what dosages are proper. I dont know what your issue with T4 is but thats what i use by a dr and its works perfectly

[BBJT200]

t4 only sends more of the TSH(thyroid stimulating hormone) to the thyroid, which is supposed to make the thyroid produce more t3. For the majority of patients, the problem is not low TSH levels (the only thing most doctors will check, even if you ask). The problem is the actual amount of available t3 in the blood, or the body's ability to use the t3.

Your thyroid supposedly produces around 26mcg/day of t3. I'm trying a dose of 25mcg/day. On day two, I actually feel alive again.
If I go to a doctor, 95% chance i'm going to spend thousands of dollars and end up on t4, and still be miserable years down the road. I watched it happen to my mother. She's still miserable and has been on synthroid for 10+years. Most doctors have no idea of how the thyroid/adrenal system works.

The "normal" range for TSH is HUGE. TSH isn't the problem, it's the t3. TSH just has the possibility of increasing t3, but does not work for the majority.

If I'm misguided in my information, please let me know. Self treatment with the chance of feeling well is better than no treatment.

[putneyc11]

This is an interesting thought. I never looked into it enough to see the difference between t3 and t4, but if what you are saying actually has merit then I may have found a solution to my problem as well. I've been on Synthroid for a little over a year now, and I do feel a little better, but nothing like I remember feeling back before all this started. For me the cause was a pituitary macro adenoma, and it effed up alot of stuff, pretty similar to what you went through. Any chance you've gotten any gynecomastia or galactorrhea? Because that would indicate to me that it could be a prolactinoma. Anyways, I would like to hear how things are going with this treatment. It may be something that I need to try out.

[ScotchGuard02]

You need to get a blood test that include Thyroid Profile w/ TSH. It's normally a hormone profile testing for males. Without data, everything's an opinion. Be safe, get blood work.

[t-dogg]

Everyone agrees. Just go to the doctor.

[BBJT200]

Planning on getting more bloodwork done when school starts in thee weeks when my clinic opens back up. I had bloodwork, full panel cbc male hormone, everything done a few weeks ago but have no access to the results as my dr just called me and said, "everything is normal." I can't actually look to see where I fall in the "normal" range for TSH until the 21st of august when the office opens up again.

And yes, I do actually have a mild case of gyno. It's not serious, but i've had it since probably...age 16 or 17. And since then, i've struggled with weight. i've gone from 130-->160-->140-->180-->145-->180 and that's where I'm at now. Diet has been ridiculously clean for a while now, and i've actually gotten heavier. It's like getting slapped in the face for doing everything right.

[BBJT200]

The doctor route isn't really much of an option. I appreciate your thoughts, but going to see a doctor about this is not going to get me anywhere. Please post if you have any information or experiences to contribute, not advice to go see a doctor.

Thyroid treatments have been failing for decades, and we are still using the same treatments. It's pointless until doctors are forced to be educated on this issue.

[BBJT200]

By the end of the day, I still feel pretty well. I can feel a difference in my mental state for sure, as well as my energy levels being elevated.
I actually have the motivation to do things again. This is amazing.

[putneyc11]

Ok, well if you have had it that long, I know mine started around then too and I've gone from 165-185-165-190-215-180-205 so I feel your pain on the body changes. If you are getting blood work done then make sure to tell them to test your prolactin level. If it is elevated then that pretty much tells you that a prolactinoma is the likely cause. Luckily this type of pituitary tumor does not require surgery and actually responds quite well to treatment with medication. I take cabergoline twice a week half a tab and it has greatly reduced the size of my tumor and has alleviated most of the symptoms. Good luck with everything.

[BBJT200]

Oh wow, that's a scary thought. I'll definitely get that done. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[BBJT200]

Day 3 on 25mcg. I feel great. My depression and mood swings are gone. I woke up this morning and was able to function with out the aid of a stimulant.
Debating whether I should up my dose tomorrow and pyramid up for some weight loss....75mcg max on a very high protein diet to prevent as much muscle catabolism as possible.

[putneyc11]

Man, this T3 seems to work pretty well for you so far. Is it legal to get in the US?

[BBJT200]

Chemical research companies sell it. AR-R, one of the site's sponsors, is a good place to get it

[BBJT200]

Day four. I still feel 100% better. This looks promising. I've got mental energy back. I haven't changed my diet at all, and i'm losing weight. Maybe I'll order a pizza to celebrate.....Nah....i'll just steam some broccoli. D:

[trackstar19]

Chemical research companies sell it. AR-R, one of the site's sponsors, is a good place to get it

Have to disagree with you here. Getting it from chemical research companies is a bad idea. t3 is not stable in liquid form, and even if you shake vigorously before using the liquid stuff you don't know how accurate or inaccurate the dosing is going to be. Some days the dose might be much more than other days. Which would be phucking with your thyroid levels further. If you're going to go the t3 route i HIGHLY urge you to use human grade tablets. T3 is one thing you want to be certain on the dosage you are using.

Also... eating 2-2.5k calories and staying stable weight wise isn't that uncommon, sure your metabolism might not be on the high end, but that's not terrible by any means. You just would have to do more cardio regularly when cutting and be more careful.... and when bulking you have it easier than a hard gainer. You said so yourself... you had blood tests done and your doctor said you're within the normal range in everything.

So by all means continue to use t3, but don't blame your lack of weight loss or muscle gain on your thyroid. Take some accountability.

Day four. I still feel 100% better. This looks promising. I've got mental energy back. I haven't changed my diet at all, and i'm losing weight. Maybe I'll order a pizza to celebrate.....Nah....i'll just steam some broccoli. D:

Could be the t3, or could be placebo. I'll be interested to see what happens. t3 usually makes most people feel more lethargic, especially once you start going higher in the dose.

[BBJT200]

I definitely plan on going into see a dr and getting thyroid levels checked once college starts up again in three weeks. Until then, I at least feel like a human being. I can see visible change in my physique already, and I'm normally an emotional rollercoaster. up and down, all day long, every day. Since day two, I feel like I have the energy to do things. I do see the possibility of a placebo effect, but I wouldn't be feeling better mentally if I wasn't short on t3 to begin with.

I totally understand your comment about the liquid. For now though, it's all i've got. I don't know where to get human grade tablets, that's probably something I have to wait for until I find an endocrinologist to treat me. For now, I shake vigorously for about a minute, and use the same insulin syringe and can only hope it's a consistent dose. If not, it's at least a low enough amount that I shouldn't have to worry about muscle wasting. I'm not worried about ****ing up my thyroid levels, they're already ****ed up. The only thing that can happen is i could get better, and I am.
I'

Symptoms of hypothyroidism that I have:

Low body temp (usually sit at around 97.0)
cold feet and hands all the time
extreme lethargy, depression, mood swings
excessive weight gain/loss in short periods of time


I do see a possibility that my thyroid was malfunctioning for some reason and quite possibly sending me huge bursts of t3, then none at all, then bursts of t3, then none at all. By using exogenous t3, and suppressing my natural production, I've at least got a semi-stable dose.

About the weight gain:

It's physiologically impossible to gain weight at a severe caloric deficit, unless it's water retention. I was building muscle and fat at roughly 50/50 split on 2000-2500calories. While eating like this, I was lifting for 60mins/day, and doing 500+cal of fasted cardio almost every day. My calculated intake should have been in the 3500+ range. For the record, i'm 5'9", 180lbs 15% b.f. A month ago, I was at 12%b.f. and like 165. I've had muscle gains that have made some of the staff at the gym what kind of "supplements" I was using, but while also gaining a fair amount of fat.

[Lemonada8]

Don't up your dosage if you are good at 25mcg.

There's a delicate balance between t4 and both bioactive t3 and bio inactive t3.

Without having blood work done and lack of a doc monitoring, you are really playing with knives.

[trackstar19]

I definitely plan on going into see a dr and getting thyroid levels checked once college starts up again in three weeks. Until then, I at least feel like a human being. I can see visible change in my physique already, and I'm normally an emotional rollercoaster. up and down, all day long, every day. Since day two, I feel like I have the energy to do things. I do see the possibility of a placebo effect, but I wouldn't be feeling better mentally if I wasn't short on t3 to begin with.

I totally understand your comment about the liquid. For now though, it's all i've got. I don't know where to get human grade tablets, that's probably something I have to wait for until I find an endocrinologist to treat me. For now, I shake vigorously for about a minute, and use the same insulin syringe and can only hope it's a consistent dose. If not, it's at least a low enough amount that I shouldn't have to worry about muscle wasting. I'm not worried about ****ing up my thyroid levels, they're already ****ed up. The only thing that can happen is i could get better, and I am.
I'

Symptoms of hypothyroidism that I have:

Low body temp (usually sit at around 97.0)
cold feet and hands all the time
extreme lethargy, depression, mood swings
excessive weight gain/loss in short periods of time


I do see a possibility that my thyroid was malfunctioning for some reason and quite possibly sending me huge bursts of t3, then none at all, then bursts of t3, then none at all. By using exogenous t3, and suppressing my natural production, I've at least got a semi-stable dose.

About the weight gain:

It's physiologically impossible to gain weight at a severe caloric deficit, unless it's water retention. I was building muscle and fat at roughly 50/50 split on 2000-2500calories. While eating like this, I was lifting for 60mins/day, and doing 500+cal of fasted cardio almost every day. My calculated intake should have been in the 3500+ range. For the record, i'm 5'9", 180lbs 15% b.f. A month ago, I was at 12%b.f. and like 165. I've had muscle gains that have made some of the staff at the gym what kind of "supplements" I was using, but while also gaining a fair amount of fat.

Damn man, good shit! Sounds like you've gone into this well researched and knowing what you are doing. And for that, my hat goes off to you. Sounds like your thyroid is indeed on the low end.

And yes, I was giving you the liquid t3 warning coming from experience. It gave my thyroid a roller coaster ride where some days i'd be hyper and other days i'd be hypo... If you look online for a source of HG t3 (cytomel, tiromel, etc.) you shouldn't have a problem finding a legit source. It'll just be coming from over seas as opposed to the domestic research chem stuff. Taking HG tabs gives you much more peace of mind (in my opinion at least)... and is actually cheaper than research chem stuff most of the time believe it or not.

But man definitely keep letting us know how it is going, how you're feeling, etc. I hope you can get it all worked out. Keep in mind when you get your blood work done again in a few weeks your t3/t4/tsh levels will be severely thrown off from the exo t3 you're putting in your body.

And for the record - my sweet spot is 50mcg of t3 ED. It is enough to keep my metabolism at a high level... doesn't flatten me out like higher doses, makes it easy to cut OR bulk, doesn't make me overly lethargic, etc.

[BBJT200]

Yes, I've spent a lot of time researching. I've wanted that perfect body for years, and have learned so much in the process of figuring out why it wasn't happening. Thanks for the advice about the tabs! I was going to mention to my dr about the exo t3 and see what she thinks. I'm probably going to get chewed out, but at least it's a step in the right direction of discovering WHY i'm hypothyroid.

I'm kind of considering upping my dose to 50mcg of the liquid, as I'll have to re-figure out my perfect dose with the tablets, since i'll know exactly how much is in each tablet, and the liquid is a gamble. I'm needing to shed body fat for october, when I head back to vegas for work. Before I used to just not eat and exercise like a maniac, now it looks like i'll be able to get cut and not be a toothpick!

[BBJT200]

Day five:

Woke up kind of groggy, even though I had a full night's sleep. Feeling tired like my old symptoms, but only mildly. It could be from the big caloric deficit i'm trying to run right now. Goal for each day is 2000cal, with 200g+ protein a day and just 2tbsp olive oil a day for my EFA's. Keeping a 1500cal deficit, so that may be contributing to my tiredness.

I decided to try upping the dose to 50mcg. Haven't felt a difference yet, but as least this will speed up some weight loss until I can get proper treatment.
Decent cardio workout today. 500cal in about an hour, keeping hr in the 150's

Eating good this afternoon, chicken and long grain brown rice, broccoli, sweet potatoes, and tuna. Lifting tonight at 9.

[BBJT200]

Day 9:

Visible loss of fat, down from 177 to 170. Dosing my t3 by body temperature. Avg is 80-90mcg/day in 10mcg doses spread through out the day on an empty stomach. Due to the nature of T3, I'm consuming bcaa's all day and a protein source 20 mins following my t3 dose.
Diet: 1600-1800cal/day, 200g + protein, 4g fish oil/day, 2 tbsp olive oil/day. Complex carbs and lean meats only. I feel AMAZING this week, and my clothes are fitting loosely. Looks like i've finally cured whatever the **** was wrong with my body.

Here's what I've found t3 to do for me:

About 15 minutes after I let it absorb sublingually, I feel awake rather than like a corpse.
Explanation: Your thyroid gland responds very quickly to any increase or decrease in energy demands. It's like the throttle on your body. When your needs are upped, during say...exercise, sex, whatever, your thyroid gland reacts very quickly to this and the production of t3 is stimulated. It's fast acting and is gone fairly quick, so periodic dosing will be most effective. I generally take a larger dose (20-30mcg) prior to exercise to simulate what my thyroid gland SHOULD be doing.

I realize that t3 is not the best treatment for a thyroid condition (it runs very heavily in my family), but until I get the dessicated thyroid tablets(T1, T2, T3, T4, Calcitonin) , i'm working with what I have. So far, it's working. I'll post pictures in a few minutes.

[jimmyinkedup]

I didnt read whole thread but cant u see a doc. Do this right?

[BBJT200]

I didnt read whole thread but cant u see a doc. Do this right?

A doctor isn't an option for me at the moment. For now, as long as I monitor my body temp closely, I can treat myself.

(with out t3. i wake up around 95 degrees, 96.5 afternoon, low 96 high 95 at bed time.)
On t3, I try to manage the 97.8-99 range.

[BBJT200]

These are progress photos. Starting Aug 31, I took a front and triceps pic. Today (Sept 6) I took two fronts, a tricep, and a side profile.

[BlueWaffle21]

I think its $77 to get a full thyroid panel, do it!!

http:// www .privatemdlabs. com / index. php

[BBJT200]

Thank you!! I'll check that out.

[putneyc11]

Just got my T3 in. Excited to try it out. I'm going to start it at 50mcg ED because I've been on T4 for some while now. How do you suggest storing it? Cold? Also, best way to take it? Leave it under the tongue for how long? What are the indications that it is taking effect for you? Also, could you tell me your exact diet? I want to follow something similar to what you are doing. Glad to see the progress in such a small amount of time!

[BBJT200]

I'd start at 25mcg/day, but split it up in three doses. T3 is short lived in the body. Basically, by dosing t3 for this condition, you are manually controlling the throttle on your metabolism.

When you exercise, or cause any increase in activity, your thyroid gland is SUPPOSED to respond and up the levels of free t3 to match what your body needs. So if you're going to do something like cardio, lifting, etc. you have to take your t3.

Right now I wake up, dose 20mcg t3, lay there for fifteen minutes and then start drinking bcaa's and water. Half an hour later, i'm at the gym doing cardio for 30mins-2hrs. Lately i've been upping the cardio.
Half way through, i'll drink a protein isolate shake...25g or so. Post work out, i'll do the same thing. Generally, when I dose t3, I try to make sure that immediately after I take it, I get some sort of aminos in my body to prevent any bit of catabolism caused by t3.

Through out the rest of the day, i make sure I'm getting a total of 200-250g protein, around 100g complex carbs, and 1tbsp olive oil. 1500cal total per day. On HIIT days, I'll add about 50g carbs post work out.

I try to spread my t3 out as much as possible. Right now i'm trying to stick to around 80mcg total/day...but i'm feeling like it might be more than I need. Once I get my dessicated thyroid from Thailand (contains T1, T2, T3, T4, calcitonin) I will be switching to that. It's closer to what the body actually needs. I've found that by suppressing my natural production of thyroid hormones, whatever was being produced feels like it's shut down at this point. My mood swings are back but not as severe, as well as the other issues such as poor circulation, cold sweaty feet, and dry skin. I take my temperature through out the day, and try to dose accordingly and keep myself in the 97.8-99 range. Normally when I wake up w\o t3 overnight, I will be at about 95. (biggest sign of hypothyroidism)

The weight loss is working at the rate it should, so I am at least semi-happy for the time being.

I leave my t3 at room temperature in a dark drawer to prevent it from going bad. I leave it under my tongue for 3-5 mins then swallow. As a general rule, take it on an empty stomach.

[BBJT200]

Also....I'm down to 170 @ 13.5% as of this morning. Just got back from 1100cal of cardio over 2.5 hours.

[fit2bOld]

Planning on getting more bloodwork done when school starts in thee weeks when my clinic opens back up. I had bloodwork, full panel cbc male hormone, everything done a few weeks ago but have no access to the results as my dr just called me and said, "everything is normal." I can't actually look to see where I fall in the "normal" range for TSH until the 21st of august when the office opens up again.

And yes, I do actually have a mild case of gyno. It's not serious, but i've had it since probably...age 16 or 17. And since then, i've struggled with weight. i've gone from 130-->160-->140-->180-->145-->180 and that's where I'm at now. Diet has been ridiculously clean for a while now, and i've actually gotten heavier. It's like getting slapped in the face for doing everything right.

You can request copies of all blood work and test results they belong to you and must be given by law...

[BBJT200]

You can request copies of all blood work and test results they belong to you and must be given by law...

They are closed until classes start again, sept. 21. There is nothing I can do about this. The doors are locked.

[BBJT200]

Day 12...

Down to 165. I can tell i've been losing some muscle over the last three days, it's finally obvious.
I've been trying to dose based on how I feel (About fifteen mins after I take it, I feel like a brick has been taken off my chest, and my brain fog is gone)
I've been doing three 30mcg doses a day, gonna drop them down to 15mcg/dose and see if i can slow the muscle loss.
Averaging 1500-1600cal/day, 1000cal cardio each day (mostly low intensity, with some HIIT)

I can tell that this has been the problem all along because at 13%, I look like I used to look at 8%. Even though i've lost some muscle, i'm learning how to manage my dose to correct the hypothyroidism. This is probably why most doctors start low and gradually increase dose over 6 months...i'm just kind of in a time crunch for work. I'm at much less of a deficit than I used to have to be at to drop weight at all.

For reference, back in 2011....
Nov. 31 I decided I was going to drop weight and get trim regardless of how difficult and painful it was. I was literally on like 500 cals/day of whey protein and three multi vitamins a day....running apprx 10 miles each day. (NOT A GOOD CHOICE, I KNOW THIS NOW) The thing is...I had been gaining weight on 1000-1500cals @ 170 lbs. (WTF?) Everyone just said eat less, and exercise more and just be patient! Well...that's exactly what I did. I lost 3 lbs in 30 days, and about 1/4 of that was muscle. I didn't realize that about the muscle loss at the time.


So...all in all, i'm doing leaps and bounds better on t3 therapy, just need to lower my dose. I'll keep you all updated as time passes. I'll have pics up next week.