52 yr old,first cycle advice

[BUTKUS51]

Hello and thank you in advance
i am 52 yrs old 5'8"180lbs about 12-15% bf-i have been lifting hard and competeing in bb for about 4 yrs,never took anything.my diet has been clean for the most part,and i supplement with various proteins,glutamene,luiciene,creatine,bcaas,vitamin s,zinc,chromium.for my bulking i do a "modified"doggcrapp workout,precontest,i go to a 6 day 3 day split workout,right now during bulk i cycle carbs(most carbs after workouts)precontest i have been eliminating carbs maybe 10 grams a day,but it seems to me i lose a lot of hard erned muscle(but i do cut like a razor) thinking of taking the next step...but a small one.i have gone to doc and have tested low t,did a test patch and still came back low,stopped seeing doc(i also dont have ins..so i felt i was wasting time an money),hopefully this is enough information(and not too much,lol)sorry to bore .i was hoping to jump start some new growth(i feel i am at a sticking point)with:

Small amount of test-e...i was hoping someone with knowledge might be able to suggest amount for trt or maybe slightly above
anavar.for 10 wks,starting at 50for 3 wks then 75 for next 3 weeks then 100 for 4 wks
going to also take milk thistle and liver clean for about 15 wks
one other point is i never drink alcohol(hahaha i have no life)

i am curious your thoughts on the test will i have to pct or just use a dose i can stay on (forever)i was under the impression i would pin once a wk
not looking to get huge ...just take it to the next level


sorry to run on ,just trying to cover all pertinent info
again thanks in advance

[Times Roman]

really learn to listen to your tendons. they don't "talk" very loud, so when they do talk to you, put the weights down and listen. as your muscular strength explodes, your tendon strength will lag, and it would be real easy to injur a tendon, which could put you in rehab for a few months.

Welcome to the board mate!
---Roman

[BUTKUS51]

Thank you Roman,glad to be here.I do understand what you are saying,and being up in age i have learned to listen closely to tendons,joints and my body in general.Finding the right groove where i get the least pain and most cooperation is key,also proper warmup is essential

[MickeyKnox]

Welcome.

Most important step for you to do before you decide what TRT dose or what cycle to run, is BLOODWORK. Sounds like you were tested for only a few hormones. Get a full set of bloods for a baseline so that you know where you are sitting, hormonally speaking.

Don't be negative and think its a waste of time or money - it isn't, if you have an open minded doc who understands how to treat Andropause. When you have your bloods dialed in then you can run all the cycles you want knowing where your baseline is. If not, you'll have no idea where to return to or what difference TRT or AAS has made on your endocrine system.

[Lunk1]

52, good stats, good experience, 1st cycle...good for you man!

If you have no intent on returning to the endo due to $ and no insurance and are set on cycling

400-500mg Tes only divided by 2 shots a week (ex: Mon and Thurs)
use an AI such as Adex at .25 mg EOD
I would PCT at this point if you are not planning to follow through with the TRT and Endo

[kelkel]

Good advice above. I would also just plain train less. Less is more as we age. More focused, brief yet intense and more rest days. It will make your recovery that much easier and help with longevity.

Welcome!

kel

[BUTKUS51]

THANK YOU GENTLEMAN
all good sound advice,To answer Micky Knox,the doc i was going to was far from open minded,she took one look at me and im sure she thought i was just looking for something .When the tests came back(lowT)she reluctantly put me on 2.5 mg test patch,2 or so months later came back even lower and she wanted me to try a different brand.I am not sure where to find a doctor that will cooperate and do these tests for a reasonable fee.I guess i will look harder for a more"cooperative doc"

To answer Lunk1-great information,i see i have more decisions to make and then once decided have all "stuff" beforehand

kelkel-I agree,but old habits are hard to break,one reason i went to dc workout was less volume and higher intensity,I was also thinking doing this should help with recovery time

I really appreciate your time and input

[MickeyKnox]

Try to locate a Life Extension doc or a Wellness doc. They will understand and help you.

For intense short workouts, check out Bill Phillips - Body For Life.

And for some ideas on a beginners cycle, take a look at this thread.


Most Common Beginners Cycles

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UJZv62fX_fs

[Emerald]

Welcome. I'm a new comer myself, 52 also and in my 6th week on test e. I started at 250mg/wk then went to 500mg. I started to get some nipple sensitivity so I cut back to 375mg. That seem to cure the gyno, but my joints are killing me. My ist cycle has been a real learning curve. I will inject 400 tomorrow trying to find my happy place. Good fortunes to yah. Hey, why don't you move to Vancouver Im looking for a new training partner LOL

[BUTKUS51]

THANKS AGAIN MickeyKnox,that is the doc i am searching out,and the info on the thread is eye opening to say the least...priceless info,I do have a lot to learn

[MickeyKnox]

Youre welcome and good luck.

[BUTKUS51]

Hi Emerald
Sounds like your experience is not the best,and i have enough joint pain(at 52) not sure if i want to add more.Im also not sure bout moving to Vancouver....me and cold weather dont get along,lol.Im curious did you have the joint pain and gyno at 250mg?Are you going to try an AI for the gyno?

[Far from massive]

IMHO,

If you have low T then you need to find a good TRT clinic. Doing cycles/taking Test on your own, before you testosterone is stabilized with a proper TRT dosage, will only serve to confuse the issue at hand.

[mojo999]

Hi Emerald
Sounds like your experience is not the best,and i have enough joint pain(at 52) not sure if i want to add more.Im also not sure bout moving to Vancouver....me and cold weather dont get along,lol.Im curious did you have the joint pain and gyno at 250mg?Are you going to try an AI for the gyno?

Hi Butkus51,
Another neat trick is to break up the pin dosage. Eg. Instead of 500mgs x 1 pin/week; do 250mgs x 2 pins/week. This will reduce the spikes and stabilize availability hence avoid gyno. Over time, u will find that sweet spot and since its uncharted territory for u, I strongly suggest to always have AI at hand. From my experience, I'm not gyno prone at all but until today I still have my Adex on hand just in case. I only use Adex/Dnex when I'm go on beastmode running Tren

[Emerald]

Hi Emerald
Sounds like your experience is not the best,and i have enough joint pain(at 52) not sure if i want to add more.Im also not sure bout moving to Vancouver....me and cold weather dont get along,lol.Im curious did you have the joint pain and gyno at 250mg?Are you going to try an AI for the gyno?

You should see the stormy, snowy, slushy, icy crap We have now Butkus, speaking of cold. Not to mention my gym is a meat locker. In response to your post, I had some mild joint pain prior to cycle. Waking with arthritic type pain, you older guys know, right? Sucks getting older. I found that 500mg every 7 days gave me slightly sensitive nips. I went to my guy and he suggested reduce to dose, I did. Went to 375mg and it worked over night. Bumped it up to 450 and sensitivity came back. I've found my happy place. But, the splitting to 250mg twic,e a week sounds promising. Maybe try that dood and let me know if it works, Em

[BUTKUS51]

I appreaciate the input and advice,after listening to you guys and other forums i think i will pass right now.Im going to look for a trt doc who might work with me being a self-payer,hopefully get full bloodpanels and start from square one.Who knows just getting my test up to normal may be the jump start im looking for

[DeniZen]

My first cycle was at 54. 500mg Test E for 12 weeks + pct. fvckn luvd it!

[MickeyKnox]

I appreaciate the input and advice,after listening to you guys and other forums i think i will pass right now.Im going to look for a trt doc who might work with me being a self-payer,hopefully get full bloodpanels and start from square one.Who knows just getting my test up to normal may be the jump start im looking for

Good call, and don't forget to return here and share your story!

[kelkel]

You should see the stormy, snowy, slushy, icy crap We have now Butkus, speaking of cold. Not to mention my gym is a meat locker. In response to your post, I had some mild joint pain prior to cycle. Waking with arthritic type pain, you older guys know, right? Sucks getting older. I found that 500mg every 7 days gave me slightly sensitive nips. I went to my guy and he suggested reduce to dose, I did. Went to 375mg and it worked over night. Bumped it up to 450 and sensitivity came back. I've found my happy place. But, the splitting to 250mg twic,e a week sounds promising. Maybe try that dood and let me know if it works, Em

Emerald definitly split your dosage. Logic is simply this: Less injected = less spike in E levels. Plus you should be on an AI. At a minimum .25 adex 24hrs after each injection. There are far more E related sides than just nip issues. It's just a good thing to do. When it comes to joint pain take a look at MSM Powder. Worked great for me.

kel

[Emerald]

Thanks Kel on your advice. I'll split the does starting Sunday. Go 250 Sun and Thursday. Getting my ai this weekend. Thks

[fit2bOld]

Just wanted to say welcome Butkus plenty of us older guys here. Keep us posted. Lots of good info from the Vets

[Far from massive]

Butkus, Just a heads up the guy who owns this place, plans to start a TRT clinic I think in the next 6 months or so. It will be 200 a month and include absolutely everything needed. Test, AI's, HCG, and labwork with expert staff available 24/7 if you have any concerns. This will definately be a first rate clinic in all aspects of the game at a very good price, so even if you have to start elsewhere keep your eye out for the grand opening and you can just swap at that time.

[BUTKUS51]

Thank you for the welcomes,and i will definitely keep you guys updated on any updates ,as of yet being around the holidays i have not even began to look,I am extremely interested in this trt clinic,any info would be appreciated,i may just wait.I feel more confident with people with hands on knowledge,in stead of the reluctant doctor thing,which seems to be what i have run into in the past.I think i mentioned in one of my posts that one experience i had (at least it seemed to me)was the doctor took one look at me and she just assumed i was going to abuse.Again if anyone has more info on this trt clinic please keep me informed
thanks again ....and MERRY CHRISTMAS