Must-watch: William Llewellyn discusses the evolving anabolic steroid black market!

[Atomini]

Did not know where exactly to post this, so I am posting this in the Q&A as well as the lounge. This is a must-see for EVERYONE here.

http://youtu.be/0LL7bL4F9G4

[Remington]

I just started it.
Looks interesting as hell!
GREAT FIND!--THANKS

[Atomini]

I just randomly ran into this video yesterday as I was doing some research on the statistics behind the AAS market. I had no idea he held a presentation on it about a month and a half or so ago.

[Armykid93]

Awesome find. He's got 3 videos regarding AAS. I'll be watching them tomorrow during lunch for sure.

[Lunk1]

I'm not going to lie...I found him to be a horrible speaker and it bored me to the point of not being able to watch the entire thing. I'm sure the info is interesting but the presentation is not!

[S&S_ShovelHead]

It was good, but nothing really shocking or new.

[Remington]

I'm not going to lie...I found him to be a horrible speaker and it bored me to the point of not being able to watch the entire thing. I'm sure the info is interesting but the presentation is not!

Yeah....but it's good stuff.

[dan991]

Interesting.. his claim that DBol is what triggered law enforcement back in the 80's.... hmmm

[dan991]

After watching that video... glad my Test Cyp comes from CVS....

[Atomini]

I just find it incredible that today, 80% of the product available is UGL grade gear (discluding a small chunk of that 80% being counterfeits).

What's even more incredible is that during the 1960s until the late 1980s, UNDERGROUND LABS FOR THE MOST PART NEVER EXISTED! Nearly 100% of the gear people were using back during that time period was nearly all pharmaceutical grade. What a time to have lived in...

[dan991]

After seeing that video... I dunno if I'd ever use an UGL's stuff..... kinda scary. You get the wrong bacteria in there and there could be a funeral.

[dan991]

I also like the trick of adding a little bit of estrogen to the testosterone. Under does the hell out of the test, add a little estrogen in; user feels the side and assumes test levels must be off the charts because most people using UGL's never get blood work done- it MUST be working because I have boobies! Brilliant!

[cherrydrpepper]

I kind of skipped to the last half he starts talking about some UGL stuff he tested and what was actually in it kind of interesting. I didn't watch the whole thing in its entirety but am wondering what his point is.

[Shol'va]

I kind of skipped to the last half he starts talking about some UGL stuff he tested and what was actually in it kind of interesting. I didn't watch the whole thing in its entirety but am wondering what his point is.

Your wondering what his point is? Are you serious CDP? Well his point is that, well that, uhum his point is, well what he is trying to get across is that, well. You know now you mention it I don't know either, but he has a point though. lol

[boz]

I have heard his books are a good read to, as i am aware this guys name gets thrown around alot on the forum, and his books are raved about.

Whats his latest book, and what exactly is it covering?

[krugerr]

His series of books are called 'Anabolics', he rreleasss an update every couple years. They're a good read, I haven't finished it yet, but I own the 9th edition.

[dan991]

His point was that prior to DBol, most gear was pharma grade and sourced directly from the manufacturers (back door purchases). Then when DBol hit, law enforcement started to care, and that spurred UGL's. UGL's now are the main source and that's bad because gear from UGL's are mis-dosed, contaminated, and some are fake gear. Oh, and he wanted to show he sucked at presentations/speaking.

[alex18]

UGL pictures of peoples garages!! would you inject something made in that!!!

[Juced_porkchop]

Gonna take a look at it later, his book/s are worth a read for sure. not perfect but good.

[cherrydrpepper]

Kind of wierd I have heard from some competitors that this guy is one of the best on the subject but he looks tiny

(Italian Voice)

I hearda he good but he looka likea leetle meegit

[Atomini]

UGL pictures of peoples garages!! would you inject something made in that!!!

You'd be surprised at the conditions under which many UGLs manufacture their products in. Granted, the process and materials required to brew gear and stamp tablets is SO frigging easy and basic, anyone can do it in their own house (after all, plenty of people homebrew their gear). But when manufacturing processes of a UGL cater to thousands of people that require mass production, the lab is bound to start cutting corners occasionally.

This is also why i've found statements like "BUT [INSERT UGL HERE] LOCATED IN [INSERT BACKWATER/ASIAN NATION HERE] USES PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE FACILITIES TO MAKE THEIR GEAR" to be very ridiculous. You don't know what UGL's lab environment located in Malaysia or Thailand really is like. Some UGLs do have access to pharmaceutical grade facilities, yes, but that's an exception rather than the rule.

Kind of wierd I have heard from some competitors that this guy is one of the best on the subject but he looks tiny

(Italian Voice)

I hearda he good but he looka likea leetle meegit

People need to stop using logic like this. Just because some guy isn't a jacked massive ripped individual, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. An individual's appearance should absolutely NOT be a criteria by which their intelligence and knowledge on a subject is judged upon. William Llewellyn may not be a big huge bodybuilder, but he knows more of what he's talking about when it comes to performance enhancing drugs than 9/10 big muscular guys...

And not to reverse the stereotype here, but the majority of VERY BIG guys i've run into and talked to possess some of the worst knowledge i've ever come across when it comes to the subject of anabolic steroid use...

[cherrydrpepper]

And not to reverse the stereotype here, but the majority of VERY BIG guys i've run into and talked to possess some of the worst knowledge i've ever come across when it comes to the subject of anabolic steroid use...

Hahahha one of the biggest guys I know believes in Tren and Winny only cycles. I have tried to talk to him about it but its like talking to a wall. I've been told by people irl im a vain ass hole so you can't take anything I say too seriously. Apologies if I offended anyone.

[thegodfather]

I just find it incredible that today, 80% of the product available is UGL grade gear (discluding a small chunk of that 80% being counterfeits).

What's even more incredible is that during the 1960s until the late 1980s, UNDERGROUND LABS FOR THE MOST PART NEVER EXISTED! Nearly 100% of the gear people were using back during that time period was nearly all pharmaceutical grade. What a time to have lived in...

I'd disagree that it was a great time to have lived in. For example, nearly half of the compounds that many BB'ers like today were not available from pharmaceutical company's because they were not FDA approved, or in foreign countries they were not for human use at all. Your favorite compound in particular, was and still is only approved for the use in Bovine creatures. Leaving many people back then to have to use that AWFUL, inefficient, and unsterile method of extracting Trenbolone from Finaplix pellets, some of which contained Estradiol as well. The best age of steroids was probably around the middle of the road when QV, Ttokyo, Brovel, etc, were still manufacturing gear. QV for a while manufactured some top of the line gear, in facilities that were up to par, not quite GMP facilities, but at least they have proper equipment and batch numbers. Also during the original BD days. Also in present day, we have significantly more knowledge regarding the use, as well as the dangers and side effects of certain compounds. With that being said, I do not trust 99% of the UGL's in existence today, with the two major busts in the past 10 years, the qualiy has been driven down with the most intelligent players leaving the game, as the ones who have the knowledge and capability to produce near HG quality gear (as good as they can do, without the facilities and luxury of a clean room with less than 100 particulates per cubic meter of air) have the most to lose personally, and leave the market. This creates a void, that is filled by sub-par idiots, looking to make money, and often with little consideration for the people who will be using their products. On top of this, HG gear has become almost prohibitively expensive, and there are numerous counterfeiters out there, very GOOD counterfeiters.

[Atomini]

Oh yes, I am well aware that the whole dynamic of AAS use back then was completely different from how it is now. Essentially, the only commonly used compounds athletes used in the 1960s and 1970s was pretty much Testosterone, Nandrolone, Dianabol, and perhaps a few others (Primobolan, Anavar, etc.). Today, many UGL's are able to create almost every anabolic known (of course, what's actually in the vials of most UGL products compared to what's on the label is a different story). The times back then were just different, but nevertheless, the smaller selection of gear back then was almost always pharmaceutical grade. Today it's a whole different story.

The question is: in what direction will the AAS black market go from this point onwards?

[-Ender-]

I just find it incredible that today, 80% of the product available is UGL grade gear (discluding a small chunk of that 80% being counterfeits).

What's even more incredible is that during the 1960s until the late 1980s, UNDERGROUND LABS FOR THE MOST PART NEVER EXISTED! Nearly 100% of the gear people were using back during that time period was nearly all pharmaceutical grade. What a time to have lived in...

allot of fellas ran vet grade gear.

[dan991]

The question is: in what direction will the AAS black market go from this point onwards?

My thought... HRT. You're starting to see A LOT of "low T" advertisements, as well as clinics popping up all over the place especially in the US. Hell, the drug manufacturers themselves are now running commercials about Low T symptoms and their drug they are offering. Androgel is the prime example; they have ads on major TV networks and that costs big money. There's nothing better for a source than the drug store... and its not hard to find a doc somewhere wiling to write you a script for testosterone. I think the black market will continue; but only for the substances that don't have FDA/Government approval. You aren't going to get a script for Tren in the states, but you will for Test Cyp and I think some will settle on just taking the Test Cyp and calling it a day. Its easy to get enough Test to run even a gram a week. Just get multiple HRT clinics involved to write you scripts and don't say anything about the other clinic. Get one prescription filled at one place and the other somewhere else. Anyone truly seeking to "do roids" is more than capable of it even with a legit script. I have (4) 200mg/10mL bottles on my shelf for a rainy day- all obtained by legitimate prescription... ain't that hard.

[Metalject]

Oh yes, I am well aware that the whole dynamic of AAS use back then was completely different from how it is now. Essentially, the only commonly used compounds athletes used in the 1960s and 1970s was pretty much Testosterone, Nandrolone, Dianabol, and perhaps a few others (Primobolan, Anavar, etc.). Today, many UGL's are able to create almost every anabolic known (of course, what's actually in the vials of most UGL products compared to what's on the label is a different story). The times back then were just different, but nevertheless, the smaller selection of gear back then was almost always pharmaceutical grade. Today it's a whole different story.

The question is: in what direction will the AAS black market go from this point onwards?

Until U.S. laws change, as the U.S. is the primary purchaser of AAS, the direction won't change.

While there are some horrible UGL's out there, it's kind of interesting that in many ways UGL's (despite being illegal) represent capitalism in its truest form....it's one of the ultimate free markets. Most steroid users are not like recreational drug users and will not settle for whatever they can get....most want the best they can get their hands on. In time, the good UGL's rise to the top and the trashy ones go out of business or struggle. Of course, eventually the good ones retire or get busted and we're left with a dry period of quality gear, but the good ones always rise to the top. The good ones become known, they build a base of customers just as any good business would and the cycle repeats itself over and over.

[Metalject]

And I would take Llewellyn's advice over any massive muscular individual on the topic of steroids all day long.

[canesfan804]

Wht dont more people use vet grade than ugl now days?

[Atomini]

I believe vet grade is only limited to a few select anabolic steroids, and its equally as hard to get (American vet grade anyways) because of the strict control over it, much like American human grade stuff (of which there isn't much variety of human grade American anabolics because well over half of the AAS in existence was discontinued in the early 1990s).

[Rwy]

You'd be surprised at the conditions under which many UGLs manufacture their products in. Granted, the process and materials required to brew gear and stamp tablets is SO frigging easy and basic, anyone can do it in their own house (after all, plenty of people homebrew their gear). But when manufacturing processes of a UGL cater to thousands of people that require mass production, the lab is bound to start cutting corners occasionally.

This is also why i've found statements like "BUT [INSERT UGL HERE] LOCATED IN [INSERT BACKWATER/ASIAN NATION HERE] USES PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE FACILITIES TO MAKE THEIR GEAR" to be very ridiculous. You don't know what UGL's lab environment located in Malaysia or Thailand really is like. Some UGLs do have access to pharmaceutical grade facilities, yes, but that's an exception rather than the rule.



People need to stop using logic like this. Just because some guy isn't a jacked massive ripped individual, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. An individual's appearance should absolutely NOT be a criteria by which their intelligence and knowledge on a subject is judged upon. William Llewellyn may not be a big huge bodybuilder, but he knows more of what he's talking about when it comes to performance enhancing drugs than 9/10 big muscular guys...

And not to reverse the stereotype here, but the majority of VERY BIG guys i've run into and talked to possess some of the worst knowledge i've ever come across when it comes to the subject of anabolic steroid use...

Its crazy right. My local source who I thought knew everything I now realize has no care for the health concerns and has been running 600mg of test for like 5 years straight. Its crazy though bc he can diet down to like 7-8% bf. You would not be able to think they could diet like that but be so crazy w aas use.

[Rwy]

I could see clinics selling fakes. Give it time someone will be stupid enough

[oatmeal69]

Fascinating lecture!

[oatmeal69]

So, after watching this, my guess is that really the only recourse we have to identify quality in UGL's is literally word of mouth, or review by other users. Even then, I wonder who really knows what they're talking about on the review sites.

[kronik420]

lead, arsenic, tin.... lol thats why my ass is soo sore..

[Times Roman]

the other thought that crosses my mind is with all the heavy metal contamination, what we should also be doing is this:

NAC - a heavy metal chelator - 6 months

http://www.ehow.com/about_6607362_na...ury-detox.html

http://www.lef.org/protocols/health_...ication_07.htm

[< <Samson> >]

Crazy shit, all I knew just not good to hear.

I have been fighting this inner turmoil for a bit. The juice works, it's not that hard to get. But, I am injecting shit with the juice. The juice I'm not too worried about. But, the extra garbage pumped straight into the body has to be bad in the long run.

There is no way to get real pharma grade in the states, at least not on my budget.


How much contamination and shit can our body take? I guess that's like asking why do people get cancer. And we don't eat a ton of tuna cause it has mercury. Yeah, real cool. . . . I really don't want to have to get a new kidney @ 45 cause I used UGL shit. Maybe I'll be pumped till then though.

We can't even judge the old timers by this since at least back in the day pharma grade juice was available. There is no testing on this done for extended periods whatsoever. We are the test subjects of this era. . .

An inner muscular infection is nothing compared to the possibility of the long term effects on our body from this shit. Prove that wrong. . .

Anything with a injectable administration has the most negative potential. They found estrogen in that shit, think about that. And you're the one growing bitch tits and don't know why.


Who ever uses UGL shit has to agree that keeping this to a minimum or not using at all is a must. I know a smaller amount of this shit is better than more. Or none at all. . . . But, it's hard to stop when you see it work. And it does work, but comes with extra unwanted crap.


Seriously tell me smoking or eating greasy shit is worse. . . . . The only upside to getting sauced is that it does make "us" more ascetically appealing.

[Armykid93]

I'm wondering what countries allow these labs and actually regulate them. Didn't have time to watch the full lecture this time around, this is my second time seeing it but I wonder which countries allow it

[< <Samson> >]

I'm wondering what countries allow these labs and actually regulate them. Didn't have time to watch the full lecture this time around, this is my second time seeing it but I wonder which countries allow it

That is a good question.

[redz]

This was pretty obvious to me, we all take risks using ugl gear. Ah well no other way to get tren lol.