Questions about cutting.

[medic2012]

I'm 5'11, 180#

A couple months ago I started doing lots of reading on here about cutting and nutrition. I started following the information on here about many smaller meals a day, the huge amount of protein needed, not cutting out fats completely (but eating the right kind). I never weighed my food, I just ate much smaller meals, more of them, and a good amount of protein. Mass quantities of broiled chicken breasts, nuts, steak, salad. I have noticed it working, my body fat seems to be less( I run every other day, lift every other day).

But a couple days ago I decided to weigh my food, count nutrients, and see how close to 40/40/20 I was, and how many calories I was intaking. I was pretty shocked. After weighing meals like the pasta in my breakfast, I needed more than I had been guessing. To the point of it felt like a big breakfast, I was stuffed. It sure didn't feel like a diet. Here's what I came up with.

Meal 1
2oz pasta, 2 eggs, 1 can tuna- 470 Calories, 43g protein, 42g carb, 12g fat

Meal 2
tri tip, 1/4 cup almonds- 395 cal, 32g protein, 5g carbs, 28g fat

Meal 3
99% lean turkey 4oz, two slices of wheat bread- 300 cal, 26g protein, 37g carbs, 3.5g fat

Meal 4
Home made sushi roll- 356 cal, 13g protein, 45g carbs, 23g fat

Meal 5
99% lean turkey 4oz, two slices of wheat bread- 300 cal, 26g protein, 37g carbs, 3.5g fat

So my total was only 1821 cal, 140g protein, 166g carbs, and 70 grams of fat.

My TDE was 2,500-2,600 a day. I fell short and this was AFTER increasing the amount of serving size because I had been undershooting it. I read that if you restrict your calories you won't burn off the body fat. Any tips or suggestions? I felt really full like I was over eating. It felt like the portions I ate when I was eating too much before I started changing my diet. Do I just need to force myself to stomach MORE to cut?

[Kagenical]

What do you do to reach a TDEE of 2500/day? What's your lifting/cardio/daily exercise (walking or heavy lifting at work etc.) like? Lots of calculators over-estimate your TDEE in my experience. I also weigh around 180lbs and I find my TDEE is actually 2400kcal. I lift 3x a week. Run 5k 3x a week, and walk 5 miles every day at work, if not more.

You don't have much to worry about with the whole "restricting calories stops the body from burning fat" thing - provided your macro's are in order. 140g protein could be improved upon a bit, but you're in the range where optimal fat loss can occur, especially if you're active. 1800kcal is nothing to worry about. Even severe restrictions such as <1000kcal, or even complete fasting some days of the week don't lower metabolism drastically (and may actually increase it).

If you want to kick it up a notch, look into IF, where you restrict your first few meals and eat the majority of your calories after working out.

[951thompson]

I'm 5'11, 180#

A couple months ago I started doing lots of reading on here about cutting and nutrition. I started following the information on here about many smaller meals a day, the huge amount of protein needed, not cutting out fats completely (but eating the right kind). I never weighed my food, I just ate much smaller meals, more of them, and a good amount of protein. Mass quantities of broiled chicken breasts, nuts, steak, salad. I have noticed it working, my body fat seems to be less( I run every other day, lift every other day).

But a couple days ago I decided to weigh my food, count nutrients, and see how close to 40/40/20 I was, and how many calories I was intaking. I was pretty shocked. After weighing meals like the pasta in my breakfast, I needed more than I had been guessing. To the point of it felt like a big breakfast, I was stuffed. It sure didn't feel like a diet. Here's what I came up with.

Meal 1
2oz pasta, 2 eggs, 1 can tuna- 470 Calories, 43g protein, 42g carb, 12g fat

Meal 2
tri tip, 1/4 cup almonds- 395 cal, 32g protein, 5g carbs, 28g fat

Meal 3
99% lean turkey 4oz, two slices of wheat bread- 300 cal, 26g protein, 37g carbs, 3.5g fat

Meal 4
Home made sushi roll- 356 cal, 13g protein, 45g carbs, 23g fat

Meal 5
99% lean turkey 4oz, two slices of wheat bread- 300 cal, 26g protein, 37g carbs, 3.5g fat

So my total was only 1821 cal, 140g protein, 166g carbs, and 70 grams of fat.

My TDE was 2,500-2,600 a day. I fell short and this was AFTER increasing the amount of serving size because I had been undershooting it. I read that if you restrict your calories you won't burn off the body fat. Any tips or suggestions? I felt really full like I was over eating. It felt like the portions I ate when I was eating too much before I started changing my diet. Do I just need to force myself to stomach MORE to cut?

You are eating too much fat, if you are looking to eat at 1800cal at 40/40/20 you should be eating 185g pro 185g carb 40g fat, if you have a smart phone, could be a good idea too get a calorie counter app (myfittnesspal is a good one) you could use some green vegetables in your diet also.

[gbrice75]

Restricting calories severely, over time, will slow basal metabolic rate. With that said, you don't need to restrict calories 'severely' in order to lose weight. A few hundred calories under TDEE is usually sufficient. Further, incorporating a carb re-feed every 7-14 days (assuming you're either running that macro low and/or cycling carbs) will help on that front.

I can't link you right now as I'm on my phone, but you should read my cutting sticky: dieting 101: cutting. I think you'll find it useful.

[medic2012]

What do you do to reach a TDEE of 2500/day? What's your lifting/cardio/daily exercise (walking or heavy lifting at work etc.) like? Lots of calculators over-estimate your TDEE in my experience. I also weigh around 180lbs and I find my TDEE is actually 2400kcal. I lift 3x a week. Run 5k 3x a week, and walk 5 miles every day at work, if not more.

You don't have much to worry about with the whole "restricting calories stops the body from burning fat" thing - provided your macro's are in order. 140g protein could be improved upon a bit, but you're in the range where optimal fat loss can occur, especially if you're active. 1800kcal is nothing to worry about. Even severe restrictions such as <1000kcal, or even complete fasting some days of the week don't lower metabolism drastically (and may actually increase it).

If you want to kick it up a notch, look into IF, where you restrict your first few meals and eat the majority of your calories after working out.

I used this (wont let me post TDE post from cutting 101 thread on here ) for my TDE. I may be a bit off because I wasn't too sure what constitutes "Hard excercise" . I lift every other day, run every other day (2 or 3 miles normally, never less than 1 though) I also do martial arts twice a week for 1-2 hours per session. And weekly Firefighter drill (Throwing ladders, hose lays etc...)

What does IF stand for?

You are eating too much fat, if you are looking to eat at 1800cal at 40/40/20 you should be eating 185g pro 185g carb 40g fat, if you have a smart phone, could be a good idea too get a calorie counter app (myfittnesspal is a good one) you could use some green vegetables in your diet also.

I had myfitnesspal, but deleted and decided to just eat a lot of lean meats, protein protein protein.... I'll download it again, and try more veggies.

It seems very time consuming to log every meal 5-6 times a day. Do most people do that or just until they get a feel for it?

Restricting calories severely, over time, will slow basal metabolic rate. With that said, you don't need to restrict calories 'severely' in order to lose weight. A few hundred calories under TDEE is usually sufficient. Further, incorporating a carb re-feed every 7-14 days (assuming you're either running that macro low and/or cycling carbs) will help on that front.

I can't link you right now as I'm on my phone, but you should read my cutting sticky: dieting 101: cutting. I think you'll find it useful.

That and a few other threads is what i've been going off of.


I can't believe the amount of time, money, and precision that goes into this. Is this really what it's going to take for me to get a decent body? I know a handful of people that eat fastfood daily, have no clue about 40/40/20 or anything slightly close to a decent diet, and they look great. One bodybuilder in my martial arts class is in his 60's and his advice was to just eat everything as much as possible, and lift as much as possible. It works for him by the looks of it.

[medic2012]

Also, provided I use leaner cuts of fish, and don't use any fatty sauces, are my sushi rolls ok with the either white/brown rice that goes into it?

[951thompson]

I had myfitnesspal, but deleted and decided to just eat a lot of lean meats, protein protein protein.... I'll download it again, and try e

It seems very time consuming to log every meal 5-6 times a day. Do most people do that or just until they get a feel for it?


.

Once you have put in the things you regularly eat, it lists them so you can just click on them quickly, after using it for a few weeks, you will get really fast at using it,the good thing about the app is it has a pie chart that displays your micro ratio (40/40/20 ect)

[951thompson]

Also, provided I use leaner cuts of fish, and don't use any fatty sauces, are my sushi rolls ok with the either white/brown rice that goes into it?

One of your meals listed you had 28g fat, I would try to keep fat a tad lower per meal and keep your post workout meal low fat. Look into carb cycling, check out bodyrecomposition dot com lots of cool info there.

[gbrice75]

I can't believe the amount of time, money, and precision that goes into this. Is this really what it's going to take for me to get a decent body?

That depends on what your definition of 'decent' is.

I know a handful of people that eat fastfood daily, have no clue about 40/40/20 or anything slightly close to a decent diet, and they look great.

So do I. Genetics is a bitch sometimes. Eating like that would NEVER work for me, unfortunately. If you're like me, then that applies to you as well.

One bodybuilder in my martial arts class is in his 60's and his advice was to just eat everything as much as possible, and lift as much as possible. It works for him by the looks of it.

Meh. That's vague advice that really has no substance. If you want to get fat, listen to him.

[medic2012]

That depends on what your definition of 'decent' is.

.

Well, using this as a guide. (Once again wont let me post pic, it's the picture on Nutrition Resource showing what BF% on men looks like) I started at 30%. No anything but sitting on my ass, fast food and such. After a couple months of weights and running I believe i'm at about 25% now.

If I could get to the picture of 20% i'd be ecstatic. If I could get to 15% i'd **** myself with excitement. Your display picture is 1,000 times more than anything i'm talking about. A decent summer body with no stomach pouch to jiggle while I run is what I want.

Does that seem possible with my diet now? Is counting and weighing EVERY meal overkill for my goal, or really important for what I want?

[gbrice75]

Well, using this as a guide. (Once again wont let me post pic, it's the picture on Nutrition Resource showing what BF% on men looks like) I started at 30%. No anything but sitting on my ass, fast food and such. After a couple months of weights and running I believe i'm at about 25% now.

Congrats! You may not be able to upload pics yet due to low post count. Not sure on that. Have you tried clicking the 'go advanced' button (at bottom of dialog box) which will bring up more buttons, one of which is for attachments?

If I could get to the picture of 20% i'd be ecstatic. If I could get to 15% i'd **** myself with excitement. Your display picture is 1,000 times more than anything i'm talking about. A decent summer body with no stomach pouch to jiggle while I run is what I want.

lol... I was in the same boat as you... see here for proof: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...19#post6415819

I used to feel the same way as you. At first, I just didn't wanna be fat anymore. Once I reached that goal, I wanted to have a slight build. Once I reached that goal, I wanted to get bigger... and bigger. Well, still working on that goal. Fact of the matter is this is a very driven lifestyle and we always want more. I know guys who are absolute MONSTERS who aren't satisfied with their physiques. It's a blessing and a curse IMO. The former because it's what keeps us motivated to forge ahead. The latter because it's a constant mindfvck, always thinking you're not good enough.

Does that seem possible with my diet now? Is counting and weighing EVERY meal overkill for my goal, or really important for what I want?

Counting and weighing every meal can never be overkill... i.e. IMO you can only do too little. As for your diet, it can use some work if you really wanna dial it in. I'd prefer to hold off on making recommendations until I can see some pics, because based on the stats you provided, I doubt you're over 20% bodyfat. At 5'11, 180lbs and 25% bodyfat, you'd be looking at 135lbs lean mass. That's pretty low. Possible, yes. But maybe you're in better shape than you're giving yourself credit for.

[medic2012]

Congrats! You may not be able to upload pics yet due to low post count. Not sure on that. Have you tried clicking the 'go advanced' button (at bottom of dialog box) which will bring up more buttons, one of which is for attachments?



lol... I was in the same boat as you... see here for proof: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...19#post6415819

I used to feel the same way as you. At first, I just didn't wanna be fat anymore. Once I reached that goal, I wanted to have a slight build. Once I reached that goal, I wanted to get bigger... and bigger. Well, still working on that goal. Fact of the matter is this is a very driven lifestyle and we always want more. I know guys who are absolute MONSTERS who aren't satisfied with their physiques. It's a blessing and a curse IMO. The former because it's what keeps us motivated to forge ahead. The latter because it's a constant mindfvck, always thinking you're not good enough.



Counting and weighing every meal can never be overkill... i.e. IMO you can only do too little. As for your diet, it can use some work if you really wanna dial it in. I'd prefer to hold off on making recommendations until I can see some pics, because based on the stats you provided, I doubt you're over 20% bodyfat. At 5'11, 180lbs and 25% bodyfat, you'd be looking at 135lbs lean mass. That's pretty low. Possible, yes. But maybe you're in better shape than you're giving yourself credit for.

I had to cheat and get my post count up to post my pics. Thanks man, I checked out your pics, that gives me hope.

Well, there are the pics. Every other day I lift. I run at a minimum every opposite day. My lifting routine is
3 sets of 8-10 bench press
3 sets of 8-10 military press
3 sets of 10 dead lift
3 sets of 10 squats
3 sets of 8-10 preacher curls
4 sets of 12 dips
3 sets of as many pull ups/chin ups as I can do (usually 5 or 6)
3 sets of (haha) 2 or 3 widearm pull ups.

Hows that? Suggestions?

[cj111]

You do that all on one day?
Just my 2 cents, but if you are doing all those lifts "intensely" like you should be, wait, I don't know where I'm going with this.
I don't know what to say about that routine except I would never do it

[mockery]

fats are very good for cutting, Idea in fact. YOu can still cut eating 100g fat a day. Fats are not the issue here.

[medic2012]

You do that all on one day?
Just my 2 cents, but if you are doing all those lifts "intensely" like you should be, wait, I don't know where I'm going with this.
I don't know what to say about that routine except I would never do it

What's wrong with doing that in one day? It's only about an hour and a half workout... Should I be doing...less...?

[gbrice75]

Man, I knew I was right about you. You're not 25%... you're not over 20%. You're in much better shape than you let on. I think the issue is when a less than lean person has relatively low muscle mass (no offense), bodyfat has the tendency to appear higher because there's nothing 'popping' underneath. A proper diet and training regimen will take care of that.

How old are you?

[medic2012]

Man, I knew I was right about you. You're not 25%... you're not over 20%. You're in much better shape than you let on. I think the issue is when a less than lean person has relatively low muscle mass (no offense), bodyfat has the tendency to appear higher because there's nothing 'popping' underneath. A proper diet and training regimen will take care of that.

How old are you?

You really think I might be under 20%? Maybe it is just low muscle mass, cause something isn't right haha..

Makes sense, but what's up with that? Genetics? Even after many months in Afghanistan lifting weights and pounding dirt up and down mountains I still had a similiar shape. Maybe a little less BF but still the same size, and I was benching over 200. (Don't laugh, but shouldn't that have made me a little bigger?) Every now and again I have gone on a severely calorie restricted diet and made myself a skinnyfat. Never again.

I have never understood. On a lot of people I see size, such as arms, consisting of fat and muscle. Almost as one combined tissue, but on me there is a clear seperation between fat and muscle. The fat wiggles around over the muscle. Hell i'm actually starting to see that V cut line starting to form from my belt line to groin, but right above my belt line there's the fat on top. I can feel my hard stomach..only there's a cushion over it....

I am 22.

[gbrice75]

You really think I might be under 20%? Maybe it is just low muscle mass, cause something isn't right haha..

I really do. You appear to be carrying less fat than I am currently, and I don't think i'm 20%.

Makes sense, but what's up with that? Genetics? Even after many months in Afghanistan lifting weights and pounding dirt up and down mountains I still had a similiar shape. Maybe a little less BF but still the same size, and I was benching over 200. (Don't laugh, but shouldn't that have made me a little bigger?)

There are a lot of factors. I see (most) guys in the gym pounding weights every day but their bodies never change. They're either:

1) Not working hard enough
2) Not eating properly/enough
3) Not getting sufficient sleep
4) Have a hormonal imbalance

Or a combination of any/all of the above.

Every now and again I have gone on a severely calorie restricted diet and made myself a skinnyfat. Never again.

Same here.

I have never understood. On a lot of people I see size, such as arms, consisting of fat and muscle. Almost as one combined tissue, but on me there is a clear seperation between fat and muscle. The fat wiggles around over the muscle. Hell i'm actually starting to see that V cut line starting to form from my belt line to groin, but right above my belt line there's the fat on top. I can feel my hard stomach..only there's a cushion over it....

I am 22.

People store fat differently. I get very big in my ass and hips (like a woman) as well as lower back primarily, and in my stomach secondarily. I'm close to 20% right now but still have a clearly visible 4 pack; just the lower abs don't show through.

The only way to know for sure is to reduce your overall bodyfat. You may have to get REALLY lean to lose it in those stubborn areas. I only begin to lose my lower back fat when I go below 10%.

[medic2012]

I really do. You appear to be carrying less fat than I am currently, and I don't think i'm 20%.



There are a lot of factors. I see (most) guys in the gym pounding weights every day but their bodies never change. They're either:

1) Not working hard enough
2) Not eating properly/enough
3) Not getting sufficient sleep
4) Have a hormonal imbalance

Or a combination of any/all of the above.



Same here.



People store fat differently. I get very big in my ass and hips (like a woman) as well as lower back primarily, and in my stomach secondarily. I'm close to 20% right now but still have a clearly visible 4 pack; just the lower abs don't show through.

The only way to know for sure is to reduce your overall bodyfat. You may have to get REALLY lean to lose it in those stubborn areas. I only begin to lose my lower back fat when I go below 10%.

I have a feeling you're right. I can and have ran like a gazelle (Just completed Tough Mudder, yeah!), and never once in my life gotten rid of the stomach fat. Flat yes...abs no..

Thanks for all your help and taking the time to read and reply!