19nor and gyno

[Tron3219]

Ok, so I've begun to develop a bit of gyno. Using prop and npp. Here's a little run down of what I did followed by a couple questions.

Ok so about a week ago I started getting a pain in my right nipple. Had some prami on hand and started to take it. The soreness and small lump is still there bout a week later and hasn't subsided. The prami is several months old and fear it's lost potency or bunk to begin with. Waiting on caber to get here. In the mean time I tanked my e2 to hopefully slow progression.

My questions:

Did I get impatient and not give the prami time to work? Still taking it tho.

After administering the caber if it doesn't not subside, that would indicate e2 related gyno, right? I've read nolva is not a good idea while taking 19nors because it can actually increase prolactin.

How should I go about this?

[Bio-Active]

Can you run labs in the meantime?

[Tron3219]

Can you run labs in the meantime?

Any particular ones besides e2?

[MickeyKnox]

[marcus300]

This thread will explain it better than me just repeating it http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ecomastia.html

[Lunk1]

Why would you believe it's PRL related vs good old E2 related gyno? Is there a milky discharge? The Nolva on 19nors is pretty much debunked broscience. JimmyInked had some great info about this. I would run a course of Letro and Nolva most likely. Is it a hard lump almost directly behind the nipple

[crazy mike]

This thread will explain it better than me just repeating it http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ecomastia.html

Thanks marcus. Good note. You directed me or someone else to this recently ...crazy mike

[Tron3219]

This thread will explain it better than me just repeating it http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ecomastia.html

Thanks Marcus

[Tron3219]

Why would you believe it's PRL related vs good old E2 related gyno? Is there a milky discharge? The Nolva on 19nors is pretty much debunked broscience. JimmyInked had some great info about this. I would run a course of Letro and Nolva most likely. Is it a hard lump almost directly behind the nipple

No discharge but my nipples have been pierced and didn't know if that could "block" them. And the reason I don't think it's e2 is because my last blast I got my ai protocol to where it was controlling it. Backed with labs. Same dose, same protocol. Changed nothing.
And yes, hard lump behind the nipple but oriented towards the armpit. Say the 10 o'clock position on the nip.

And I'll look for that thread, thanks

[Lunk1]

No discharge but my nipples have been pierced and didn't know if that could "block" them. And the reason I don't think it's e2 is because my last blast I got my ai protocol to where it was controlling it. Backed with labs. Same dose, same protocol. Changed nothing.
And yes, hard lump behind the nipple but oriented towards the armpit. Say the 10 o'clock position on the nip.

And I'll look for that thread, thanks

Let me guess...about the size of a pea? maybe a bit less?

Pretty sure you are going to have to run a gyno reversal protocal....

[Tron3219]

Let me guess...about the size of a pea? maybe a bit less?

Pretty sure you are going to have to run a gyno reversal protocal....

Yeah, u can't really notice it just looking at it I can just feel it. It's about the size of a bb.

Can I do that on while I'm on?

[Lunk1]

Yeah, u can't really notice it just looking at it I can just feel it. It's about the size of a bb.

Can I do that on while I'm on?

You said you tanked your E2? How?

[MickeyKnox]

[Tron3219]

You said you tanked your E2? How?

Just increased ai dosage

[Tron3219]

Ralox 60-80mg until gone.

Will this tank e2? Cuz boy does that suck! Lol

[marcus300]

Just increased ai dosage

Its all about balance Tron, increase your AI and take some nolva until the pain goes away then just keep running the AI and slowly drop the dose down until you find that balance

[Lunk1]

I would run a 7 day course of letro along with the Roloxifene as Mick suggested. Yes you will suffer sides from low E2 this way...deal with it. The Letro shrunk mine quite well.

[Tron3219]

Its all about balance Tron, increase your AI and take some nolva until the pain goes away then just keep running the AI and slowly drop the dose down until you find that balance

Thanks, I was afraid to take nolva because I read it could b counter productive if prolactin related. It's just weird, cuz I'm using the same protocol as far as ai and test dosage is concerned. And everything was ok last time after I got it adjusted. But appreciate the advice.

[marcus300]

Thanks, I was afraid to take nolva because I read it could b counter productive if prolactin related. It's just weird, cuz I'm using the same protocol as far as ai and test dosage is concerned. And everything was ok last time after I got it adjusted. But appreciate the advice.

Here is a quote from the link I posted

Progesterone acts in concert with estrogen to promote breast development, and at least part of any role played by synthetic progestins may be to stimulate IGF-1 production in the breast. But again, blocking the action of progesterone or synthetic progestins is not practical. Specific progesterone receptor antagonists like RU-486 block not only the progesterone receptor, but the androgen receptor as well, and have actually been associated with the development of gynecomastia (21). In any case, progesterone is thought to act on the breast to enhance the effects of estrogen (22) so once again, attacking estrogen is the easiest and most logical approach.

DHT gel (Andractim) or a generic knockoff might help as well. DHT is thought to act as an aromatase inhibitor (23) and perhaps compete directly with estrogen for binding at the estrogen receptor (24). DHT has been used in several case reports and controlled trials to successfully treat gynecomastia. So perhaps a viable strategy would be to combine DHT gel with tamoxifen. I would recommend tamoxifen rather than an aromatase inhibitor due to the simple fact that tamoxifen has been widely used in numerous controlled studies to succesfully treat gynecomastia, whereas the evidence to support the efficacy of aromatase inhibitors is scanty at best.

[Tron3219]

Alright this I what I'm gonna do

Continue to run an increased ai dosage with nolva and order letro and ralox

What dosage should I run the nolva at? 40?

[Tron3219]

Here is a quote from the link I posted

Progesterone acts in concert with estrogen to promote breast development, and at least part of any role played by synthetic progestins may be to stimulate IGF-1 production in the breast. But again, blocking the action of progesterone or synthetic progestins is not practical. Specific progesterone receptor antagonists like RU-486 block not only the progesterone receptor, but the androgen receptor as well, and have actually been associated with the development of gynecomastia (21). In any case, progesterone is thought to act on the breast to enhance the effects of estrogen (22) so once again, attacking estrogen is the easiest and most logical approach.

DHT gel (Andractim) or a generic knockoff might help as well. DHT is thought to act as an aromatase inhibitor (23) and perhaps compete directly with estrogen for binding at the estrogen receptor (24). DHT has been used in several case reports and controlled trials to successfully treat gynecomastia. So perhaps a viable strategy would be to combine DHT gel with tamoxifen. I would recommend tamoxifen rather than an aromatase inhibitor due to the simple fact that tamoxifen has been widely used in numerous controlled studies to succesfully treat gynecomastia, whereas the evidence to support the efficacy of aromatase inhibitors is scanty at best.

Thanks again, I knew the first part, that's why I increased ai. But was a bit sketchy towards the nolva, but I'll most definitely heed your advice.
Thanks marcus

[marcus300]

Alright this I what I'm gonna do

Continue to run an increased ai dosage with nolva and order letro and ralox

What dosage should I run the nolva at? 40?

Yes at 40mgs until the pain subsides,
If your AI is research chem than it could be underdosed,

[Tron3219]

Yes at 40mgs until the pain subsides,
If your AI is research chem than it could be underdosed,

I got it in raw form, I know the aas is good, I'd assume his ancillaries are as well. Mixed it as per Bonaparte.

[Lunk1]

Then bottom line with 19nors and nolva is that as long as you use an AI effectvely then it is fine to use Nolva with them

[Tron3219]

Good to know, thanks guys! Appreciate your help!

[Ashop]

Can you run labs in the meantime?

I think theres where you have to start. Lab work.

[kelkel]

Consider the andractim as well. I recently put a friend with gyno issues on the nolva-andractim protocol and he seeing very positive results. A pro-friend was starting to have a flare up and used it with success as well.

[Granovich]

What if ai and caber working fine
Do u need to add nolva on cycl just in case ?

[kelkel]

What if ai and caber working fine
Do u need to add nolva on cycl just in case ?

Nope.

[Tron3219]

Consider the andractim as well. I recently put a friend with gyno issues on the nolva-andractim protocol and he seeing very positive results. A pro-friend was starting to have a flare up and used it with success as well.

Andractim? Dht cream? I don't have access to that lol