First cycle(ok second)

[Connectorhector]

So I guess I went about my first cycle a little wrong. Ok a lot wrong. Looking to redeem myself and do this right. I started with a tbol winny stack with no test. About a week in I was able to see it was the wrong way to go (thanks to chive on and crazy mike) and stopped. I am now looking for a GOOD cycle to start me off on the right foot. I am 36 been working out for quite a few years now. Very low body fat. Good lean diet about 3500 calories a day. Sounds like test is the only way to go. I guess I'm looking for a cycle to keep me lean and gain some strength. Dunno if it makes sense but I wanna gain some size in mostly chest and legs but stay lean and as long as I keep my lean diet I should be good right? I can get test I guess I'm a bit confused on which to use. I have tbol and winny from my botched effort I would like to use in a cycle if possible. I guess I'm looking for doses per day or week and when to add or stop the tbol and winny. I have searched around and nothing specific to exactly these two together with test. Anyone willing to lay out a cycle I could look at with PCT,AI,SERM, with these three compounds that could get me some nice lean vascular gains. Also I just stopped my botched effort today how long should I wait to start

[Scottyb13]

I would run tbol and. Test only.. That's what probably everyone will tell you. Go to search and look up most common beginners cycle.. Read tht very good info.. Do you know what your bf is? An what's your height and weight right now?

[vladan]

They say the simplest is the best. You should try 12 weeks test e or c, 500mg p/w cycle, probably with t-bol. Leave winny in the fridge for another attempt. Of course you need to prepare a decent AI and PCT support.

[Connectorhector]

No I don't know exact body fat but very low for sure. I'm 6'. 185. And very lean and cut. Workout five days a week right now. 3500 calories a day, just bumped to 4000 with whey protien. Working hard no real big gains just staying tight.

[Scottyb13]

Because you prevent chances of any bad side effects it's best to be 15% or less bf.. And yes test c or test e 500mg/week split into 2 injections every 3.5 - 4 days at the most.. Those have long eaters which are roughly 7 days long.. So consistent blood levels are needed.. Run tbol like week 1-4 no more than 5 weeks then drop it.. Run 500mg/week of test c or e weeks 1- 8 or however much test you have.. Wouldn't go over 12 weeks for first cycle.. Need to run an AI and hog during whole cycle.. And nolvadex and Clomid for pct.

[Connectorhector]

So I'm sure I pissed some people off since I've been on here but here it goes plan number two.

Week 1-12. Test E 250 twice/wk
Week 1-4. Tbol 40/day
Week 1-12. Aromasin 12.5/day
Week 1-14.5 HCG 250 iu twice/wk
Week 15-19 clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Anyone see any problems with this. After finding my way around this site a bit better i guess I somewhat copied this but it makes sense to me. Anyone agree disagree. It is my first cycle. Go hard or go home.

[Scottyb13]

Wk 1-10 Testosterone C or E - 250mg twice/wk e3.5d
Wk 1-10 Arimidex .25mg EOD - monitor and adjust accordingly.
Wk 1- 12.5 hCG = 250iu twice/wk - day before test injection.
Pct starts week 13-17

[Scottyb13]

And your tbol probably no more than 50mg a day week 1-4 then drop

[Connectorhector]

Is arimidix, aromasin and HCG all injectable or oral?

[Connectorhector]

I was certain it was all oral right? Sounds dumb just wanna be sure. ORAL ONLY RIGHT?

[Scottyb13]

Arimidex and aromasin oral, hcg all I have seen was liquid

[Connectorhector]

Yah ill see what my guy has but even if its liquid you take it orally right?

[vladan]

HCG is definitely a liquid. There is substance in the powder and water solution. Injections can be taken subcutaneous and intramuscular as well.

[Connectorhector]

Ok I will read more thanks

[ChiveOn]

Use this as a template for body fat and let us know. As states above its not really smart to cycle above 15%. Winny is great at a low body fat, but it won't burn ft. It will jut harden and up vascularity. So it's not generally recommended to use in less you're 10% or under. 12% at the very least or it just won't be worth our time and money IMO.

[TbolzNdbols]

this is an easyyyy one. Run 125mg prop eod for 6-8 weeks, and run dbol ed at 40mg 1-4. with .25 aiemi ed

Great novice cycle for someone who is lean, looking to gan nice hard muscle that you can keep if maintained.

You could easily switch the dbol with Tbol if you don't want the dbol strength/bloat. But once prop kicks the dbol muscle will harden nice.


As some of you know this is one of my favorite beginners cycles.

[ChiveOn]

That works well too. Not so much a fan of dbol though, a bit more bloat then I like although I felt like a tank! Tbol is weaker but you won't put on the water weight or bloat dbol seems notorious for. Tbol is best dosed 80-100mg/ day

[Connectorhector]

I don't know how exactly to tell but I am sure I'm under ten. I am very lean and well toned. Almost no fat to grab anywhere like I'm pretty right. Obliques an stomach pretty shredded. I'm a very lean 6' 185

[Connectorhector]

I know I have 40 a day there and it was suggested no more than 50 by someone. Shoud I go more like 80ed instead

[TbolzNdbols]

yeah Tbol dose should def be bumped if you do go that route(forgot to add). But if you are how you say you are I would def do a Prop based cycle. As long as your okay with eod injections.

Would be nice if you could take some quality pictures so we can better advise you.

[Connectorhector]

If it will be a better outcome for me, although I'm not excited about more injections,I have no reason not to. I read about the half lives and all that and I get it. Correct me if I'm wrong but by doing it every other day you have more test in you therefor you gain faster? Or recover faster? Maybe I'm still a bit confused on what the test actually DOES for your body at higher half life maybe someone can clear it up a bit for me or point me in a direction that maybe can

[Connectorhector]

I will work on getting some pics going too

[ChiveOn]

Look abou 10 posts above. I posted a picture of a body fat chart. Also, you can run a long ester and pin twice a week. But then you're lookin at a 12wk cycle that doesn't kick in well until about week 4. Prop can be run 6-8 weeks and pull see it kick by week two. Pinning schedule is tedious with ED or EoD injections though. Personal preference.
You could always run the prop for 8 weeks with the tbol. Or the winny depending on goals and bf%

[Connectorhector]

Thanks I didn't see that. Yah I'd say I'm 8 to 10%ish. I guess I'd prefer a twice a week even if it takes a bit longer for results as long as the results will be similar either way. Can I run the tbol for 8 weeks on o 12 week cycle of test e or just stick to 4?

[ChiveOn]

I would say that running any oral for 8 weeks is pushing it. You could use it for the first 4-6 as a kick starter but its really goal dependent. If you're looking to cut winny may be the better option. If you really wanted to use both you could try first 4 with tbol. A 4wk break. Then last 4 with winny. But you definitely need a liver support

[Connectorhector]

Right on I will try to check all that out and see what I can come up with. But that sounds like something I would lean towards for sure

[Connectorhector]

Week 1-12. Test E 250 twice/wk
Week 1-4. Tbol 60/day
Week 8-12 Winny 50/day
Week 1-12. Aromasin 12.5/day
Week 1-14.5 HCG 250 iu twice/wk
Week 15-19 clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Changed it up a bit. Thought about prop but eod might be tough to start for me. Twice a week test. Twice a week HCG. For 12 weeks four a week. That'll be a good starter I think. Anyone see anything to mention here. Ill probably start in three weeks or so.

[Connectorhector]

What about 75 winny ed would that be pushing it just wanna use up the pills I have left from before

[Connectorhector]

trying to figure this picture thing out. Sorry for being a dumbass. How much body fat would you say. Was I close. Hahaha I gues I got a bit of a flex on cause of the mirror. Lol. But yah that's it. I wanna grow. Especially in the chest and legs. Which you cannot see but yah. When I open the pic up it makes me look wider than I am I think at least when I open it. The little pick in the corner is about how thin I am

[ChiveOn]

That cycle set up looks fine. And you're at a low body fat so you should see some noticeable good gains! If your diet is clean and you are vigilant with your AI you shouldn't see much bloat at all. Especially by the end of the cycle you'll notice some good results, I think you'll be pleased. Ar-r sells all your pct and AIs you need if you are in need of the source. Keep us updated.
Glad to see you took our advice, in the long run it will definitely be well worth your time and health!

[Connectorhector]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Ill keep updated

[zdet77]

Just wanted to get some advice, I am 5' 11, 185 lbs and 35 years old. First cycle for me too. I ran a partial cycle of test e and nothing else about 6 months ago. Not smart I know, I am researching and kinda getting familiar with ai's, hcg and pct. Bf between 20 and 25%. What are your suggestion's for me??????

[ChiveOn]

My advice to you would be to start our own thread instead of hijacking someone else's
Also, before you do anything else go to the nutrition forum, as your body fat is significantly too high to be considered as "safe" to cycle

[zdet77]

Thank you, I will do just that.

[Connectorhector]

What about t400 instead of test e. I read the profile but was curious what others thought. I can get either so whatever works. It says more painfull inj but is it worth it?

[EKFitness]

just do test e or c 500 a week dude. u don't even need orals your first time you're gonna blow the fk up.

[zdet77]

Thanks bro!!!

[Connectorhector]

Wondering about aromasin dosage on this cycle instead I can only get arimidix dosage wise I read .25 eod does that make sense. I have 12.5 a day on the aromasin seems so much different of a dosage. What should the dosage be on arimidix and can I replace the aromasin with it. Help thanks

[ChiveOn]

You're right. Adex is run at .25mg EoD and aromasin at 12.5mg ED. These are standard minimum dosages and can be run higher. You won't know until you start or you get bloodwork on cycle to check your levels.
The different dosages are because they do different things. One is a suicide inhibitor, meaning it kills estrogen, while the adex is more of an estrogen blocker and can reduce the estrogen in your blood by 80% I believe. I'm posting a thread below that's really helpful in making your choice. But either works. I prefer adex but it's personal opinion

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...aveled%2A.html

[Connectorhector]

Thanks chive on you always come through for me. Your my new found friend and I haven't even met you. Lol. But for sure I can use tha adex instead of the aromasin for the whole 12 weeks?and without blood work can you just do the.25 eod and that's ok or is bloodwork a must?