axiron comparsion help

[qkcam]

HI
i am switching off very low dose injections to low dose axiron.. however been getting some side effects .. like itchy skin bumps..not on application area and slight headaches.

wondering if all the pharmaceuticals will have the same basic compounds and create this problem for me or is there a product that might be more gentle?

any recommendations? maybe i tough it out and wait to see if the skin irritation goes away.. or is that a sign this isn't the right med for me?

[APIs]

No experience with Axiron, but I've found that I am sensitive to many dermal application pharmaceuticals (i.e. rash, skin inflammation). IMO some people are just prone to this. Your body may adjust though as you mentioned...

[qkcam]

thanks API! i wonder what is a good "break in " period to see if i get past this uncomfort? injections were alot less bothersome it seemed. i do have some compounded gel to try although my endo suggested the axiron said she see's more consistant levels with the stuff.

it is an interesting balance to find when one is sensitive.

[EverettCD]

I used to use Axiron. Once the Axiron dries (under arms) it would irritate my skin slightly (itching no rash) & turn into a flaky mess. I am not a big fan of Axiron. Just wait until the copay coupon runs out, you will be blown away by the cash price, most insurance companies do not cover it.

[qkcam]

EverettCD what are you doing now in stead of the Axiron? mostly i am just trying this as an experiment to see if i can feel better without the RBC increase and HDL decrease that i have had even with very low dose injections.. who knows.. i sure dont like the itchy burning skin on my chest and headaches.!!

[qkcam]

womens international compounding pharmacy makes a compounded gel and they have good prices.. you can get it in a 10% .. i have a 2% and it was only $26 for a month supply including shipping. i have heard they are reputable. but my endo said she has seen more consistant numbers with the axiron. time will tell.or maybe i will just switch to the compounded stuff ..

[FRDave]

Good post Mike said today you may find interesting. This is the reason most switch from gel/cream to injections:

This is a common phenomenon when using Gels and Creams. Jonathan Wright founder of BHRT discovered this years ago. Transdermal "fatigue" sometimes occurs right away, or after months to (usually) years of same-dose transdermal treatment producing desired clinical lab results, the quantities absorbed measurably decline with no change in dosage or other circumstances. Nobody can tell you why! I personally dont like Gels and Creams at all. They work for a very small percentage of men and only bump most men up 200-300 points and often cause higher DHT. If they work for you then great!! Consider yourself lucky if thats your preferred route of admin. The transdermal pathway can work well for 3, 6, or even a year in some men. Just be prepared to switch to injectable sometime down the road. This solely happens at the transdermal enzymatic pathway and not to be associated with injectable and the "receptor burn-out" theory. This theory is not true at all.

[FRDave]

EverettCD what are you doing now in stead of the Axiron? mostly i am just trying this as an experiment to see if i can feel better without the RBC increase and HDL decrease that i have had even with very low dose injections.. who knows.. i sure dont like the itchy burning skin on my chest and headaches.!!

No way around either unless you lower your dosage and/or donate blood in addition to keeping hydrated. A few post down you will see a posting on this with some good info.

Edit - thread here: http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...it-levels.html

For HDL, it will only drop slightly, nothing to worry about. If so, diet, cardio and/or niacin can help.

[EverettCD]

EverettCD what are you doing now in stead of the Axiron? mostly i am just trying this as an experiment to see if i can feel better without the RBC increase and HDL decrease that i have had even with very low dose injections.. who knows.. i sure dont like the itchy burning skin on my chest and headaches.!!

I started with Axiron late last year, it didn't work very well for me. After a few months I switched to Fortesta, it dried completely, did not cause any itching or a flaking mess on my skin. But that's about all for the positives I had with it. Topicals seemed to work well for me for about 6 months give or take, then they just stopped being effective for me. LowT Mike's post Dave quoted a couple post up nails it. Now I am on a Test Cyp injections protocol (70mg every 3.5 days) & feel great.

You never know, your compounding pharmacy may have a topical that may work great for you. You will just have to try them out & see what works best for you.

Good luck to you, I hope you find the right one soon.

[qkcam]

No way around either unless you lower your dosage and/or donate blood in addition to keeping hydrated. A few post down you will see a posting on this with some good info.

Edit - thread here: http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...it-levels.html

For HDL, it will only drop slightly, nothing to worry about. If so, diet, cardio and/or niacin can help.

Hi i did read some of that earlier. will check it over again!. thanks.
also my injection dose was already really low.. 20mg a week.. ! and my HDL dropped down to 28 which is really really low.. LDL and tri's are good from diet.. i have some chronic health issues and can't do a lot of cardio or i get sick- and have been experimenting with niacin and fermented cod liver oil we'll see what happens..

i really want to go back on the injections. i guess i don't like the idea of the phlebotomy every other month because i dont have "huge" veins.. wont those big needles scar and ruin the veins over time.. sorry for being so naive.

[qkcam]

I started with Axiron late last year, it didn't work very well for me. After a few months I switched to Fortesta, it dried completely, did not cause any itching or a flaking mess on my skin. But that's about all for the positives I had with it. Topicals seemed to work well for me for about 6 months give or take, then they just stopped being effective for me. LowT Mike's post Dave quoted a couple post up nails it. Now I am on a Test Cyp injections protocol (70mg every 3.5 days) & feel great.



You never know, your compounding pharmacy may have a topical that may work great for you. You will just have to try them out & see what works best for you.

Good luck to you, I hope you find the right one soon.

gald you found something that worked! injections seem easiset.. axiron has ethanol in it.. that is kinda scary! i know it hurts my stomach and gives me a headache and itchy bumps.. and i am only taking 1/3 of 1 pump! crazy!

[FRDave]

Hi i did read some of that earlier. will check it over again!. thanks.
also my injection dose was already really low.. 20mg a week.. ! and my HDL dropped down to 28 which is really really low.. LDL and tri's are good from diet.. i have some chronic health issues and can't do a lot of cardio or i get sick- and have been experimenting with niacin and fermented cod liver oil we'll see what happens..

i really want to go back on the injections. i guess i don't like the idea of the phlebotomy every other month because i dont have "huge" veins.. wont those big needles scar and ruin the veins over time.. sorry for being so naive.

What were your HDL levels before TRT? How about Hematocrit, RBC and Hemoglobin levels before/after?

[qkcam]

the first time before trt ever they were HDL 64 10 yrs ago and then went on 200mg every two weeks which was way to much for me.. and they dropped quickly.. so i stopped a few months into it.. and levels never got back to that point. the highest they ever got since then HDL was mid 40 (with fermented cod liver oil) .. and then dropped again to 28 with the tiny dose of IM 20 a week.

i am not sure how much the HDL reallly matters? i had a cartoid ultrasound down a few weeks ago and they said all looked clear.. but the eye dr noted "high cholesterol" although my LDL is good.. like 119.

i am wracking my brain trying to figure out how to do this.. and what i can do differently - thanks

[Moparman]

HI
i am switching off very low dose injections to low dose axiron.. however been getting some side effects .. like itchy skin bumps..not on application area and slight headaches.

wondering if all the pharmaceuticals will have the same basic compounds and create this problem for me or is there a product that might be more gentle?

any recommendations? maybe i tough it out and wait to see if the skin irritation goes away.. or is that a sign this isn't the right med for me?

how low was your low dose inj. How much per week? Was it cyp?

[dreadnok89]

What are your goals? 200 every 2 weeks sounds like a nightmare. Woman can probably get away with lower doses and feel it more right? I also heard dosage and weight are a factor as well

[qkcam]

how low was your low dose inj. How much per week? Was it cyp?

dose was most recently at 20mg a week. i know some women that are taking alot more and not getting the "masculinzing" effects.. we are all different. 20 a week helped alot with my energy, well being and ablity to recover from workouts ( i have cfids) so without it i can't really work out at all without getting sick.

i would like to do 25 or 30 a week

[dreadnok89]

I just don't know how to gauge the gel. It all absorbs differently. I do know some woman who do great but I know who does way too much. I'd stick with shot to be honest. I didn't lime axe iron at all

[LowT Mike]

Hi i did read some of that earlier. will check it over again!. thanks.
also my injection dose was already really low.. 20mg a week.. ! and my HDL dropped down to 28 which is really really low.. LDL and tri's are good from diet.. i have some chronic health issues and can't do a lot of cardio or i get sick- and have been experimenting with niacin and fermented cod liver oil we'll see what happens..

i really want to go back on the injections. i guess i don't like the idea of the phlebotomy every other month because i dont have "huge" veins.. wont those big needles scar and ruin the veins over time.. sorry for being so naive.

What is your Hematocrit when you go and get a blood draws. Do you have sleep apnea? Depends on the patient but if you are one of the unlucky ones with allergy sensitive skin you will react the same to most transdermals. Commercially available Creams and gels are horrible. Cost a fortune and the concentration is very low so you have to do 3-8 pumps per day and you run out of the 30/60cc pump quicker. THIS IS 100% MARKETING TO PUSH MORE PRODUCT. Their are many wonderful compounding pharmacies that CUSTOM compound creams/gels tailored for you for much cheaper than commerically available. You can add and subtract different chemicals to find what works best for you and they more commonly use a 10%, 15% OR 20% So you only need, 1 pump=1cc VS. commerically available weak 1.62% having to use 8 pumps to get same T strength. Axirion smells like turpentine to boot.

[qkcam]

What is your Hematocrit when you go and get a blood draws. Do you have sleep apnea? Depends on the patient but if you are one of the unlucky ones with allergy sensitive skin you will react the same to most transdermals. Commercially available Creams and gels are horrible. Cost a fortune and the concentration is very low so you have to do 3-8 pumps per day and you run out of the 30/60cc pump quicker. THIS IS 100% MARKETING TO PUSH MORE PRODUCT. Their are many wonderful compounding pharmacies that CUSTOM compound creams/gels tailored for you for much cheaper than commerically available. You can add and subtract different chemicals to find what works best for you and they more commonly use a 10%, 15% OR 20% So you only need, 1 pump=1cc VS. commerically available weak 1.62% having to use 8 pumps to get same T strength. Axirion smells like turpentine to boot.

my hematocrit before last blood draw was 45%.. so not terrible.. they took out a pint of blood and i did a blood test a month later and was up to 47% with no change in Test dosage and was using im injections then.

i worked with a compounding in the past .and actually have a script for one now but it is only 2%.. i keep hearing about "inconsistent levels" with the compounded.. but that sure beats scratching and burning! I hope..

do you have any recommendations? also my endo said she thinks it would be hard from them to successfully put more than 2% in a compound. i dont know why she believes this? so it might be hard to get her to go up to 10% or more. ?
i usually felt better with the injections-- more energy and well being- so now i am trying 10mg injections a week with a low dose of this gel (axrion) but i decided today to give up on the axiron i dont like headaches and itchy..
energy is down too.. and depression up. i need to find a solution.. thanks for your ideas!

[dreadnok89]

Might be silly but do you watch your estrogen?

[qkcam]

Might be silly but do you watch your estrogen?

my endo checked it a couple months ago.. the labs didnt say high or low.. i think she said she was suprised it is as low as it is.

maybe that is why hdl is so low. who knows!

[powerlifterty16]

yeah estrogen is supposed to help with lipids...im hoping the clomid helps mine since it is an estrogen and digested as one.

[qkcam]

Interesting .. i have heard about clomid but didnt know what it was for.. ! how are your lipid level? i used psylium husks in oatmeal every am and that helps the LDL keeps it at a nice place. it actually lowered the LDL very quickly. and am trying fermented cod liver oil to see if it will increase HDL. it has worked in the past for me.. we'll see now.. fish oil alone didnt cut it.

[FRDave]

Interesting .. i have heard about clomid but didnt know what it was for.. ! how are your lipid level? i used psylium husks in oatmeal every am and that helps the LDL keeps it at a nice place. it actually lowered the LDL very quickly. and am trying fermented cod liver oil to see if it will increase HDL. it has worked in the past for me.. we'll see now.. fish oil alone didnt cut it.

I tried everything to raise my HDL with no success. Currently sitting at 18 mg/dL. The Niacin I did not stick to due to the flushing. I did however just start cycling daily (going on three weeks this Sat) with an average heart rate of 170 for 30min. From the research I have done, this is the only proven method to raise HDL so I will get bloods in a few months.

Good luck

[dreadnok89]

I actually was reading hdl is baloney and you shouldn't worry about it. Sigh always something conflicting

[qkcam]

I tried everything to raise my HDL with no success. Currently sitting at 18 mg/dL. The Niacin I did not stick to due to the flushing. I did however just start cycling daily (going on three weeks this Sat) with an average heart rate of 170 for 30min. From the research I have done, this is the only proven method to raise HDL so I will get bloods in a few months.

Good luck

I have heard too that HDL may not matter.. also heard that cardio is the best way to get it up.. good for you ! I have cfids so if i do intense cardio i get can get sick for a long time- still trying to work my way up ..and refusing to believe what they say.. but it seems to be true.. I took the niacin last nite.. flushing and itchy.. can you take it at nite? also i have heard there is a non flushing version but heard it isn't as effective. I may try red yeast rice to get my LDL even lower so i have a better ratio. 18 is pretty low..do you know what your ratio is? have you tried the "fermented cod liver oil" from blue ice? i will let ya know if /how it has worked for me.. keep on pedaling! it sounds like a great stress relieve.. i miss intense exericse.

[qkcam]

i have heard it is good to get a complete profile. and this test was mentioned.. i just looked it up and sept is the test of the month.. on sale for $99

https://www.directlabs.com/Resources...S/Default.aspx

[FRDave]

I have heard too that HDL may not matter.. also heard that cardio is the best way to get it up.. good for you ! I have cfids so if i do intense cardio i get can get sick for a long time- still trying to work my way up ..and refusing to believe what they say.. but it seems to be true.. I took the niacin last nite.. flushing and itchy.. can you take it at nite? also i have heard there is a non flushing version but heard it isn't as effective. I may try red yeast rice to get my LDL even lower so i have a better ratio. 18 is pretty low..do you know what your ratio is? have you tried the "fermented cod liver oil" from blue ice? i will let ya know if /how it has worked for me.. keep on pedaling! it sounds like a great stress relieve.. i miss intense exericse.

I just tried the basics like diet, fish oil (take 3600mg daily of combined EPA/DHA), Niacin (no flush does not work and pure niacin even in low doses turns my entire body red from head to waste and I itch and burn for 30min straight like I'm on fire). After my girls father has had two heart attacks in the past year at the age of 52, I figured I should do cardio to strengthen my heart, and it just so happens to raise HDL levels and well as burn fat, so it's a win win for me. Now it's just a matter o sticking to it since I workout at home and the cardio gets super boring :-/ Good news is my LDL and cholesterol are both low and very great, so I don't think I have much to worry about. I'll look into the cod liver oil from Blue Ice that you mentioned.


Pic of my cardio setup :-P

[qkcam]

that is a beautiful bike! I have mine set on a trainer too! like yours but blue!.. great idea to put it against the wall for storage.. I may copy! .. last weekend i pedaled and watched american ninja warrior.. that helped time go by.. and the other day i read a book.. but i pedal slow and dont go as long as you. what is that attachement on your handle bars? scary about your girls dad having 2 heart attacks. hope he is ok-
with the "cod liver oil" it seemed to only be the "fermented" stuff that worked last time.. i have the same reaction from niacin and last nite i noticed it also made by heart beat really hard.. alone with the itchy and buring all over. it is kinda a trip.

[FRDave]

that is a beautiful bike! I have mine set on a trainer too! like yours but blue!.. great idea to put it against the wall for storage.. I may copy! .. last weekend i pedaled and watched american ninja warrior.. that helped time go by.. and the other day i read a book.. but i pedal slow and dont go as long as you. what is that attachement on your handle bars? scary about your girls dad having 2 heart attacks. hope he is ok-
with the "cod liver oil" it seemed to only be the "fermented" stuff that worked last time.. i have the same reaction from niacin and last nite i noticed it also made by heart beat really hard.. alone with the itchy and buring all over. it is kinda a trip.

Thanks. It was too hot in garage so I brought it in the room. It don't take up too much space and my girl don't complain, so it's working out pretty good. The trainer works awesome but can get pretty loud so I usually just blast the stereo since its hard to hear the TV.

Attachment on bars is my Polar FT7 heart rate monitor. You wear a chest strap and it sends all data to the watch, so I just mounted watch to bike for convenience. Works great and ensures I keep my heart rate steady. Once it shows I burned 500 calories I'm off that bike with a quickness lol.

Good luck with the Niacin. I did it for a few days and was like, screw this lol. I am sure you would eventually build a tolerance and get over the flushing, but no clue how long that takes.